Given that one of the significant pre-existing problems for COVID-19 is apparently being obese, that would have been like half the country on lock down.

Given that one of the significant pre-existing problems for COVID-19 is apparently being obese, that would have been like half the country on lock down.

I was more meaning like, lung issues or immunocompromised individuals. I don't think obesity is a major pre-existing condition, at all.

I doesn't really matter what you think.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-at-higher-risk.html


People Who Are at Higher Risk for Severe Illness
COVID-19 is a new disease and there is limited information regarding risk factors for severe disease. Based on currently available information and clinical expertise, older adults and people of any age who have serious underlying medical conditions might be at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

Based on what we know now, those at high-risk for severe illness from COVID-19 are:

People 65 years and older
People who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility
People of all ages with underlying medical conditions, particularly if not well controlled, including:

People with chronic lung disease or moderate to severe asthma
People who have serious heart conditions
People who are immunocompromised
Many conditions can cause a person to be immunocompromised, including cancer treatment, smoking, bone marrow or organ transplantation, immune deficiencies, poorly controlled HIV or AIDS, and prolonged use of corticosteroids and other immune weakening medications
People with severe obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 40 or higher)
People with diabetes
People with chronic kidney disease undergoing dialysis
People with liver disease

For reference, a man that is 5'10", 275 lbs would have a BMI of 40.

I honestly don't think a ton of people will die (or would have died) if they had simply locked down the older populations or those with major pre-existing problems. Just my opinion. Shutting everything down for everybody hindered this economy, and probably is what will lead to a spike, since there was not a gradual increase, as there possibly would have been if everything were normal, for those with normal immune systems.

Most of your assertions seem to be in contrast both to experts and evidence of what's happened.

First, at least 60,000 people in the U.S. (and likely many more than that) have already died since March. This is more than die in wars. I don't understand this downplaying of the deaths. It seems likely this would have been much higher if the country had not taken such dramatic actions to shut things down.

Second, they tried your strategy in Sweden and dramatically more people died than in neighboring countries. As other have pointed out, it's not just the elderly who are vulnerable, especially in a state with poor health and high obesity.

Third, it seems to be an oversimplification that we can, or could have, just "opened the economy." It's not even clear that "opening the economy" is better for the economy. Who will return to businesses if they feel unsafe? Most people are not willing to risk their own life or those of people they love if they can prevent it.

I am not trying to seem like there are easy answers or that I know the answers. Everyone is doing the best with the information we have, but you seem to be ignoring some things we do know in your response. Maybe I'm missing some evidence that supports your conclusions.

I'm not totally sure what your point is here, but it seems implied you want to open everything up, accept that a ton of people will die, and go the herd immunity strategy. The only way to walk the walk on this stance with integrity is to get COVID-19 on purpose and be part of that plan. That would either end with you most likely having immunity and being able to live your life without harming the health of others, but there's a small chance you could get ill or die. Barring a miracle vaccine, that's the logical conclusion of that view. Yet, I haven't seen anyone step up to the plate. Dan Patrick, for example, talks tough about older people sacrificing their lives, but he hasn't stepped up to the plate to get COVID-19. I'm guessing he's wearing DEPENDS while he talks big.

Problem with herd immunity for this coronavirus is that AFAIK (unless something's been discovered in the past few days), there is absolutely no proof that you can get immunity by getting and recovering from the virus and having antibodies.

...
Second, they tried your strategy in Sweden and dramatically more people died than in neighboring countries. As other have pointed out, it's not just the elderly who are vulnerable, especially in a state with poor health and high obesity.
...

Great article about Sweden's policies/tactics:

I Just Came Home to Sweden. I’m Horrified by the Coronavirus Response Here. (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/sweden-coronavirus-response-death-social-distancing.html)

I honestly don't think a ton of people will die (or would have died) if they had simply locked down the older populations or those with major pre-existing problems. Just my opinion. Shutting everything down for everybody hindered this economy, and probably is what will lead to a spike, since there was not a gradual increase, as there possibly would have been if everything were normal, for those with normal immune systems.

I have been saying this all along. I hate to compare this to the flu cause it's spreads easier than the flu seems worse than the flu but if you look at the numbers the death rate for people under 40 is actually lower than the flu. 40-50 I think it's about the same. Over 50 it's much much worse.

Could, Could, Could....favorite words of the Coronavirus breakfast club. You COULD go outside and not get it all, or COULD get it and it COULD not be too bad. You COULD realize that acting like 90% of the world is supposed to baby the other 10%, whom are so scared, they are buying Depends for themselves. The key word is COULD. Look, you're a smart dude. Life goes on, maybe not for all of us, but life goes on.

Looks like someone is wearing big boy pants. Good for you.

By forcing this timeline, businesses are no longer eligible to collect insurance, their employees will no longer be eligible for unemployment, and their business revenue will probably be less than half of normal operations. The “brave” people like East Coast Gator will return to bars and gyms, causing a second spike in cases, leading to further shutdowns and / or scaring away more customers. The future is very grim for all small businesses, but especially restaurants.

Great article about Sweden's policies/tactics:

I Just Came Home to Sweden. I’m Horrified by the Coronavirus Response Here. (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/sweden-coronavirus-response-death-social-distancing.html)

Yikes. At least the academics said something. ;)

My only question is when you have to shut down again in a month what will all the people say who demanded we open the economy back up. How is there anyway possible gyms could reopen thats one of the best places to go and catch something. You know what's weird gyms can open but city owned basketball courts and playgrounds will stay closed. Someone is afraid of lawsuits.

Hopefully businesses get a mountain of lawsuits when there is a second outbreak. Why do spa's, nail salons, and barber shops need to reopen so soon? I get everyone's hair looks like **** mine does too but opening up like this is basically begging the Rona to come back. The dumbest part about this is that mask are not required I've been wearing one since January because well it's just the right thing to do. We get to find out the hard way. Aint this a great state or what.

“Hopefully businesses get a mountain of lawsuits when there is a second outbreak”

When the PEOPLE CHOSE TO GO THERE!!! Yeap, folks, this is an accurate representation of modern, sue happy America. The same country where you can order a steaming hot coffee, spill it on yourself, and sue the establishment for it and win. Next.

What needs to happen when there is a second outbreak is people stay home when they are sick or know sick(yes I’m aware many are asymptotic just like many will not ever experience more symptoms than a common cold will give you) and those who are at risk need to stay home. Everyone else can continue on with their daily lives.

Once again, famine alone accounted for millions and millions of deaths as a direct result from the Great Depression. The shortages of food are starting to get worse. It’s a luxury in Edmond where almost anything you want including toilet paper and bottled water is readily available. I’m starting to see a decline in that.

I’ll be right back here when the second wave hits to claim keep the goddamn economy open.

I rather enjoy this chart

16020

When the PEOPLE CHOSE TO GO THERE!!! Yeap, folks, this is an accurate representation of modern, sue happy America. The same country where you can order a steaming hot coffee, spill it on yourself, and sue the establishment for it and win. Next.

I think you should do a little more research on this specific case.

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

When the PEOPLE CHOSE TO GO THERE!!! Yeap, folks, this is an accurate representation of modern, sue happy America. The same country where you can order a steaming hot coffee, spill it on yourself, and sue the establishment for it and win. Next.

We are way off topic here, but you need to educate yourself on that case because what happened caused a serious injury and revealed some very dangerous operational practices by McDonald's, and the lawsuit forced them to be addressed.

This mischaracterization comes from being brainwashed by big corporate interests that want to limit tort settlements by those legitimately wronged.

This topic is a huge pet peeve of mine, especially because people now love to blame 'the media' for disinformation and then turn around and parrot complete falsehoods.

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

I think you should do a little more research on this specific case.

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Haha... We had the exact same thought.

Great article about Sweden's policies/tactics:

I Just Came Home to Sweden. I’m Horrified by the Coronavirus Response Here. (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/sweden-coronavirus-response-death-social-distancing.html)

If there is no vaccine or effective treatment, every country is going to end up in the same place no matter how much kicking and screaming humanity does. Unless of course, we are going to shutdown literally everything for at least one month. The country's of the world is going to do a lot of catching up to Sweden as their rate slows and everyone else speeds up because they can't keep their economies closed forever. An individual can change their probability on a daily basis, but society on a whole can't change the long term outcome unless a vaccine does come out. There has been no successful corona virus vaccine ever developed to date, maybe we will get lucky this time?

This "doomsday" report was released yesterday.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/health/report-covid-two-more-years/index.html

The death rate in Sweden isn't that far off from everyone else statistically speaking. They have the same problem everyone else does with a large percentage of deaths happening in nursing homes.
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Numbers just updated for Friday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona050120a.jpg

If there is no vaccine or effective treatment, every country is going to end up in the same place no matter how much kicking and screaming humanity does. Unless of course, we are going to shutdown literally everything for at least one month. The country's of the world is going to do a lot of catching up to Sweden as their rate slows and everyone else speeds up because they can't keep their economies closed forever. An individual can change their probability on a daily basis, but society on a whole can't change the long term outcome unless a vaccine does come out. There has been no successful corona virus vaccine ever developed to date, maybe we will get lucky this time?

This "doomsday" report was released yesterday.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/health/report-covid-two-more-years/index.html

The death rate in Sweden isn't that far off from everyone else statistically speaking. They have the same problem everyone else does with a large percentage of deaths happening in nursing homes.
16021

16022

This is what people who want everything to remain locked down for the foreseeable future don't seem to understand.

This is what people who want everything to remain locked down for the foreseeable future don't seem to understand.

Your ridiculous generalizations are tiresome. Who, precisely, is saying "everything" should be locked down "for the "foreseeable future?" I can only speak for myself but I was fine with OKC following the White House guidelines: let's see a significant decline in cases and then open up cautiously, as outlined.

The mayor said he did use those guidelines but we can all see that the number of new cases is not declining, it is rising, as our new hospitalizations and deaths.

I will resist the temptation to match your generalization of people who seem to take this disease more seriously than you do by making some weird caricature of your position.

This isn't black and white. This is grey. Super simplified arguments and solutions are great for politics, but not for policy.

If we see a massive spike in cases in the next two weeks, which I entirely expect, you are going to really be upset when there is a new round of closures. To me, that would be way worse than just holding out a couple of more weeks with what we were doing.

Yes, we need a vaccine for everything to get back to normal. However, they can also develop a medicine for treatment to reduce symptoms and slow the death rate. Not necessarily a cure but a treatment. We don't have a cure for the common cold or flu, but we have medicines to reduce symptoms and help recovery.

I was diagnosed with Influenza-A back in January, and they gave me a new medicine called XOFLUZA, that just got available in the US in 11/2019. It is just 2 pills you take one time. After I took it, I was feeling 50% better with 24 hours. It we could get something like that in the short-term for COVID-19, that would be great.

We are way off topic here, but you need to educate yourself on that case because what happened caused a serious injury and revealed some very dangerous operational practices by McDonald's, and the lawsuit forced them to be addressed.

This mischaracterization comes from being brainwashed by big corporate interests that want to limit tort settlements by those legitimately wronged.

This topic is a huge pet peeve of mine, especially because people now love to blame 'the media' for disinformation and then turn around and parrot complete falsehoods.

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts
When you order a coffee you know it’s going to be hot. I just read that whole thing and it doesn’t change my opinion of how absurd the sue happy culture of this country is. Even if there are some valid points to be made there my point still stands.

And going to the gym, getting sick, and then suing the gym because of that is equally if not more ridiculous.

When you order a coffee you know it’s going to be hot. I just read that whole thing and it doesn’t change my opinion of how absurd the sue happy culture of this country is. Even if there are some valid points to be made there my point still stands.

Our legal system isn't perfect but in general, it is pretty amazing. The idea it is unfair or unjust just comes from not bothering to actually understand and rather merely repeating sound bites picked up somewhere.

And using that case as an example of abuse is just plain ignorance. I don't expect you to admit you were wrong but I hope others will not keep repeating this nonsense.

When you order a coffee you know it’s going to be hot. I just read that whole thing and it doesn’t change my opinion of how absurd the sue happy culture of this country is. Even if there are some valid points to be made there my point still stands.

And going to the gym, getting sick, and then suing the gym because of that is equally if not more ridiculous.

:doh: There's a difference between "hot" and "dangerously hot" and then having been notified about it being "dangerously hot" 700+ times and actually settling cases about it being " dangerously hot", yet not doing anything about it until they finally got sued. If you can't understand that, nobody can help you...

Back to topic - we belong to the YMCA and got an email about them re-opening and all they're doing to stay safe, and one of the items is a waiver you have to sign before you go in that says you can't sue them if you contract coronavirus. Haven't read it fully because we're not going back for a loooooong time - no way we're going in a place that has lots of people in an enclosed area breathing heavily and maybe or maybe not wiping down the equipment before and after they use it. Email said the staff sanitize equipment, locker rooms, etc. regularly (can't remember if it's hourly, because again, we're not going back in anytime soon).

Why in the world can't we get tests and figure out who has it and who's had it (although the latter may not matter, if no immunity is conferred by having it once)?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

If you are going to get mad about people being allowed to go to gyms, you should read about how that category of business was included in the first round of openings, against all common sense.

It was completely due to politics, lobbying and big money. And then the populace is led to believe those places are somehow safe by the actions of the government.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona050120b.jpg

By forcing this timeline, businesses are no longer eligible to collect insurance, their employees will no longer be eligible for unemployment, and their business revenue will probably be less than half of normal operations. The “brave” people like East Coast Gator will return to bars and gyms, causing a second spike in cases, leading to further shutdowns and / or scaring away more customers. The future is very grim for all small businesses, but especially restaurants.

Out of curiosity, are you referring to business interruption insurance? If so, it’s been my experience that insurance companies have specific exclusions written in their policies for viruses that have allowed them to deny coverage to businesses filing claims.

Your ridiculous generalizations are tiresome. Who, precisely, is saying "everything" should be locked down "for the "foreseeable future?" I can only speak for myself but I was fine with OKC following the White House guidelines: let's see a significant decline in cases and then open up cautiously, as outlined.

The mayor said he did use those guidelines but we can all see that the number of new cases is not declining, it is rising, as our new hospitalizations and deaths.

I will resist the temptation to match your generalization of people who seem to take this disease more seriously than you do by making some weird caricature of your position.

This isn't black and white. This is grey. Super simplified arguments and solutions are great for politics, but not for policy.

If we see a massive spike in cases in the next two weeks, which I entirely expect, you are going to really be upset when there is a new round of closures. To me, that would be way worse than just holding out a couple of more weeks with what we were doing.

Well I’ve been tired of your over the top, ridiculing political commentary in a non-political forums like this one for a while now and your non-stop calling anyone advocating for things to start returning to normalcy stupid. Your ridiculous generalizations are equally tiresome. You are often the one making highly politicalized comments that sound like a teenager arguing with his parents while at the same time claiming it’s hard to have adult, civilized non-political discussions about the pandemic. If you’re fine with the White House guidelines (something that has not been obvious in your previous posts) then I wasn’t talking about you, was I?

It is all gray, there is no black and white, but obviously I think we’re doing the right things by opening businesses back up and setting guidelines to cautiously do so. There will be a spike. That was going to happen whether we open now or open in September...this way just means less economic destruction. I don’t think we will shut down again even with a spike...people were fine with it once but will resist if the government tries it again after seeing what’s happened to their businesses and the economic consequences this time around...especially given how what was supposed to be two weeks morphed into over 6. You’ve constantly said Oklahomans are stupid and we’ve done nothing right with this so far...the stats don’t support your opinion when compared to other states.

Given that one of the significant pre-existing problems for COVID-19 is apparently being obese, that would have been like half the country on lock down.

The virus crisis will hopefully inspire overweight people to shape up or ship out.

Our legal system isn't perfect but in general, it is pretty amazing. The idea it is unfair or unjust just comes from ignorance and not bothering to actually understand and rather merely repeating sound bites picked up somewhere.

And using that case as an example of abuse is just plain ignorance. I don't expect you to admit you were wrong but I hope others will not keep repeating this nonsense.
I was wrong about that specific case. I admit that. I get it yes the coffee should not have been that hot. I still think the whole idea is silly behind that lawsuit but it is what it is. Bad example I gave.

The elephant in the room is going to a gym, contracting a virus, and blaming the gym is insanity.

The other big thing is regardless of how better our legal system is than others around the world doesn’t mean it can’t be improved. I can’t attest to how it used to be as my knowledge on legal history isn’t good nor can I give insight on other systems around the world except Iran(their’s sucks).

I don’t have to be an attorney to see how screwed up our legal system is on many levels, how racist it is, how drawn out it is, and how it allows someone to sue over spilling coffee on themselves or slipping on a wet surface that exposed to elements after it just rained because a sign wasn’t there to tell them.

That’s my opinion of course but yes this country has a major problem with its justice and legal system and this sue culture is a big part of that. Marriage is one of the worst and so are these people who file endless lawsuits against vital infrastructure projects which is why our infrastructure costs are among the most expensive in the world.

And as to why our economy is opening back up, I’d venture to say it with the reality this can’t keep going on. Politics, are IMO, what led to this overreaching shutdown.

:doh: There's a difference between "hot" and "dangerously hot" and then having been notified about it being "dangerously hot" 700+ times and actually settling cases about it being " dangerously hot", yet not doing anything about it until they finally got sued. If you can't understand that, nobody can help you...

Back to topic - we belong to the YMCA and got an email about them re-opening and all they're doing to stay safe, and one of the items is a waiver you have to sign before you go in that says you can't sue them if you contract coronavirus. Haven't read it fully because we're not going back for a loooooong time - no way we're going in a place that has lots of people in an enclosed area breathing heavily and maybe or maybe not wiping down the equipment before and after they use it. Email said the staff sanitize equipment, locker rooms, etc. regularly (can't remember if it's hourly, because again, we're not going back in anytime soon).

Why in the world can't we get tests and figure out who has it and who's had it (although the latter may not matter, if no immunity is conferred by having it once)?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?Okay well maybe it’s just me and I’m some sucker to big corporations but I could never order a coffee, spill it on myself, and sue the business who just made it for me. I don’t care how bad I was burned. Just like I could never go to a gym, get sick and then blame the business for it. Again, I just must be a sucker.

Okay well maybe it’s just me and I’m some sucker to big corporations but I could never order a coffee, spill it on myself, and sue the business who just made it for me. I don’t care how bad I was burned. Just like I could never go to a gym, get sick and then blame the business for it. Again, I just must be a sucker.

Did you bother to read the link to study the material facts involved in the lawsuit?

Okay well maybe it’s just me and I’m some sucker to big corporations but I could never order a coffee, spill it on myself, and sue the business who just made it for me. I don’t care how bad I was burned. Just like I could never go to a gym, get sick and then blame the business for it. Again, I just must be a sucker.

So if you go to a store and they just mopped and the floor is still wet yet there's no signage, and you slip and tear your ACL, you wouldn't sue for medical coverage? That's nuts.

So if you go to a store and they just mopped and the floor is still wet yet there's no signage, and you slip and tear your ACL, you wouldn't sue for medical coverage? That's nuts.
Jesus Christ, did you not read what I posted?

Edit: to clarify in a post further up I made this same comment about wet floors so sorry for the confusion. I thought you were responding to that post.

Yes I would sue if it were inside and had been mopped with no wet signage. I fail to see how that is in any way shape or form relevant to the conversation.

Did you bother to read the link to study the material facts involved in the lawsuit?
I read two different links. A third one said the server could not be found. I didn’t watch the video.

Is there something I’m missing? The coffee was extremely hot and she spilled it. It shouldn’t have been that hot. McDonald’s has changed their policy because of this. A lady settled with a corporation for likely over 10k over this though the exact number is confidential. What am I missing?

I read two different links. A third one said the server could not be found. I didn’t watch the video.

Is there something I’m missing? The coffee was extremely hot and she spilled it. It shouldn’t have been that hot. McDonald’s has changed their policy because of this. A lady settled with a corporation for likely over 10k over this though the exact number is confidential. What am I missing?

That McDonald’s had received more than 700 previous reports of injury from its coffee, including reports of third-degree burns, and had paid settlements in some cases, yet had done nothing to lower the temperature of the coffee and only did so after being sued by Liebeck? In addition (all from the link from Pete):

McDonald’s admitted it had known about the risk of serious burns from its scalding hot coffee for more than 10 years.

McDonald’s operations manual required the franchisee to hold its coffee at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit (Coffee at that temperature, if spilled, causes third-degree burns in three to seven seconds.)

McDonald’s quality assurance manager testified that McDonald’s coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into Styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat.

McDonald’s admitted at trial that consumers were unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald’s then-required temperature.

McDonald’s admitted it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not.

Back on topic, I do agree with you that going to a gym right now, getting coronavirus, and suing the gym would be kinda stupid because in that case, you would know the risks and dangers, as opposed to the McD case, where people did *not* know the risks and dangers. However, I'm guessing that most gyms are doing what the YMCA is and requiring waivers to be signed before letting you in.

Any business that would require me to waive my right to seek liability redress during this pandemic is not a business I would feel comfortable patronizing.

Any business that would require me to waive my right to seek liability redress during this pandemic is not a business I would feel comfortable patronizing.

And that is your right. No anchor dragging you to those places. Those businesses know the risks of something like that. You can probably count on your fingers and toes the # of companies that will actually ask you to waive that right, though, Probably just gyms, like the Y, since those are petri dishes.

That McDonald’s had received more than 700 previous reports of injury from its coffee, including reports of third-degree burns, and had paid settlements in some cases, yet had done nothing to lower the temperature of the coffee and only did so after being sued by Liebeck? In addition (all from the link from Pete):

McDonald’s admitted it had known about the risk of serious burns from its scalding hot coffee for more than 10 years.

McDonald’s operations manual required the franchisee to hold its coffee at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit (Coffee at that temperature, if spilled, causes third-degree burns in three to seven seconds.)

McDonald’s quality assurance manager testified that McDonald’s coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into Styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat.

McDonald’s admitted at trial that consumers were unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald’s then-required temperature.

McDonald’s admitted it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not.

Back on topic, I do agree with you that going to a gym right now, getting coronavirus, and suing the gym would be kinda stupid because in that case, you would know the risks and dangers, as opposed to the McD case, where people did *not* know the risks and dangers. However, I'm guessing that most gyms are doing what the YMCA is and requiring waivers to be signed before letting you in.
Right and I get all of that which is why I said my comparison to this wrong and that lady had valid points. It’s still hard for me to fathom ever suing a business for buying coffee and spilling it on myself which is the way I see it. McDonald’s was in the wrong here and should have warned their customers and they should not have been serving coffee that hot. I agree.

Why in the world can't we get tests and figure out who has it and who's had it (although the latter may not matter, if no immunity is conferred by having it once)?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

at this point no one is stopping you from getting a test at this point but yourself.

Are you proposing people wear a scarlet letter if they have had the virus?

at this point no one is stopping you from getting a test at this point but yourself.

Are you proposing people wear a scarlet letter if they have had the virus?

Wow, from 0 to 100 in that last sentence... Nope, never said anything of the sort. Testing millions of people is the only way we can *safely* re-open the country, having as few spikes as possible. Data, data, data - we need as much about this as possible, otherwise we're going to be closing things, re-opening them, closing other cities, re-opening them, spiking, etc., for months... And testing should be done country-wide by some organized method, not just piecemeal by whoever wants one. Yeah, I know, the "OMG, THE FED IS MAKING US GET TESTED, GET OUR GUNS AND GO TO THE CAPITOL AND PROTEST" crowd will be incensed. It should be similar to verifying children have all their immunizations before starting school. This might be too political, so I'm not going to go further down this path in this thread.

As somebody else said, we don't have a vaccine for any of the other coronavirus strains that have been infecting humans for years, so I don't know why we think we can create one for this strain in 12-18 months. We also don't know if we will be immune if we contract and recover from it. We need testing to get a handle on this whole thing and figure out where it's at, otherwise it's going to be lather/rinse/repeat ad infinitum (or ad nauseam).

I’d like to offer a round of any virtual drink of your choice to everyone in this thread today. Seems a bit testy and off the rails today so please take my virtual drink and lets all toast to it being Friday in the big town!

Cheers!!

It's true things have been overly testy and I apologize for my role in being too harsh.

It's hard being cooped up and lots of people are experiencing stress from that as well as financial and business uncertainty. Here's hoping things continue to improve and we can gradually start putting this behind us.


Press release:

*****************

Introducing Outdoor Safari Walk
The wait is over, it’s time to rediscover the Zoo you know and love!

The Oklahoma City Zoo and Botanical Garden will be taking daily online reservations for its Outdoor Safari Walk, which takes guests on a modified pathway through the park to view a majority of the Zoo’s outdoor animal habitats.

For the health and safety of our guests, team members and animals, and to ensure adequate social distancing between guests, the Zoo will limit the number of guests allowed to visit per day.

Online reservations are required for all guests and ZOOfriends' members wanting to experience the Outdoor Safari Walk.

On the Outdoor Safari Walk guests will follow a one-way, two-mile trail through almost all of the Zoo to see many of their favorite animals and wildlife habitats including Asian elephants, bison, grizzly and black bears, Indian rhinos, Sumatran tigers, Western lowland gorillas, African lions and more!

Keeping You Safe
Social distancing among all Zoo staff and guests participating in the Outdoor Safari Walk is vital. The Zoo will have visual reminders and staff members placed to ensure guests are maintaining a safe social distance along the pathway.

Guests will not have access to high-touch attractions/areas of the Zoo. All Zoo rides, animal feedings, attractions, playgrounds, water fountains and misters will be closed.

All indoor animal areas such as the Herpetarium, Great EscApe and Joan Kirkpatrick Animal Hospital will be closed. The Zoo’s Canopy Restaurant and Lotus Pavilion will be closed.

If a guest feels sick before their reservation, we ask that they not visit the Zoo.

Attendance is capped each day and staggered by 30 minute increments to limit the total number of guests in the Zoo at one time.

All Zoo staff working in the park are required to wear masks and gloves. All Zoo staff will have their temperatures checked before working.

Free hand sanitizer stations are positioned at the entry, exit, restrooms and food locations.

Zoo staff is continuously cleaning high-touch surfaces like vending machines, tables, chairs and more.

^^%

Its not just being cooped up I think for many people sports is a release from their stresses. So cooped up combined with zero sports makes a lot of grumpy folks.

The zoo seems like they are taking a good approach to this! I have been in Zoofriends for several years and they do a wonderful job.

The zoo seems like they are taking a good approach to this! I have been in Zoofriends for several years and they do a wonderful job.

Yeah, really smart to space people out and them have them all walk in the same direction.

Especially this time of year, it's such an awesome place to be.

Mayor Holt presser today prefaced by the statement that even though orders are being lifted some businesses will chose to remain closed for the health and safety of staff and some people will chose to remain home...”It was never a proclamation holding our economy back, it was and is a deadly pandemic.”

Mayor Holt presser today prefaced by the statement that even though orders are being lifted some businesses will chose to remain closed for the health and safety of staff and some people will chose to remain home...”It was never a proclamation holding our economy back, it was and is a deadly pandemic.”

He was guest host of Lackmeyer's chat today since Lackmeyer was on furlough this week. Someone asked him if he was going to go out to eat tonight, his response was "No."

There is a major outbreak of COVID happening in Guymon and Texas County right now. The county is now 5th in confirmed cases in the state even though its population is fairly low.

Not sure why the Oklahoman hasn't covered this but Guymon has a major meat processing plant, Seaboard Farms. I don't know for a fact but it is likely that this is the source of the outbreak, like other meat-packing facilities in South Dakota and other states.

This needs more attention:

https://abc7amarillo.com/news/local/texas-county-has-5th-highest-number-of-covid-19-cases-in-oklahoma

Mayor Holt seems like a good man, but I wouldn't want to be in a foxhole with him. Life is hard and there is not doubting that, but it's still life and needs to keep going. I'm sorry but I need to work, so I can pay Bills and feed family members. He can look at data and get advice from experts. I need to make $$$.

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2020/05/oklahoma-reportedly-wants-to-bring-in-pro-wrestling-events-669855/

Why not?! What is the harm in bringing WWE to OKC and Tulsa before the rest of the country opens up...

When the PEOPLE CHOSE TO GO THERE!!! Yeap, folks, this is an accurate representation of modern, sue happy America. The same country where you can order a steaming hot coffee, spill it on yourself, and sue the establishment for it and win. Next.

Have you ever taken the time to learn about that case? To use your words, "Yeap, folks, this is an accurate representation of modern, ill informed America."

McDonald's deserved that lawsuit. They'd faced numerous suits and warnings before and maintained negligent practices. The woman faced incredibly serious burns that were preventable.

Your post then dives into a rant about what we should like the answer is clear. "Opening the economy" too soon may be worse for the economy. Arguing against strawmen isn't helpful. EVERYONE WANTS THE ECONOMY OPEN. Not just you. We're just trying to figure out how to get there.

Edit: Pete and others already responded to this and I saw after I posted it. I can't believe after learning about the McDonald's case details anyone would think that it is a good example, but whatever.

On a more cheery (or cheers) note:

Home Happy Hour – Retail alcohol sales in the U.S. for the six-week period ending April 11: Spirits +33%, wine +32%, total alcohol sales +26%, beer and cider +20% - Nielsen

Right and I get all of that which is why I said my comparison to this wrong and that lady had valid points. It’s still hard for me to fathom ever suing a business for buying coffee and spilling it on myself which is the way I see it. McDonald’s was in the wrong here and should have warned their customers and they should not have been serving coffee that hot. I agree.

Here is a good breakdown of the facts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/16/13971482/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit-stella-liebeck

Two key points....she didn't want to sue. All she asked for was for McDonalds to pay her 20k in medical...they offered her $800. (She won 2.9 million but settled for $600,000) The coffee was so hot , she had 3rd degree burns to her genitals. Imagine the pain of third degree burns to your junk. I have had 2nd degree on my arm where I had the huge blisters and all and it was the worst pain I have ever been in. Now...back to the virus

On a more cheery (or cheers) note:

Home Happy Hour – Retail alcohol sales in the U.S. for the six-week period ending April 11: Spirits +33%, wine +32%, total alcohol sales +26%, beer and cider +20% - NielsenI have helped with that. Sanity has a price in this crappy situation. Actually, our alcohol volume has probably decreased. It’s just purchased and brought home instead of consumed with dinner out. I assume retail purchases are what Nielsen is tracking.

I have helped with that. Sanity has a price in this crappy situation. Actually, our alcohol volume has probably decreased. It’s just purchased and brought home instead of consumed with dinner out. I assume retail purchases are what Nielsen is tracking.

Yes, retail. My guess is overall sales are down pretty big tho. I know a lot of distilleries have converted to making hand sanitizer to make up losses.

Here is a good breakdown of the facts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/16/13971482/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit-stella-liebeck

Two key points....she didn't want to sue. All she asked for was for McDonalds to pay her 20k in medical...they offered her $800. (She won 2.9 million but settled for $600,000) The coffee was so hot , she had 3rd degree burns to her genitals. Imagine the pain of third degree burns to your junk. I have had 2nd degree on my arm where I had the huge blisters and all and it was the worst pain I have ever been in. Now...back to the virus
Thank you for the insight and respectful post. I was wrong to use that as an example and I trust your judgement given your expertise in this field and given what Pete showed me I realized my error here. My bad.

Have you ever taken the time to learn about that case? To use your words, "Yeap, folks, this is an accurate representation of modern, ill informed America."

McDonald's deserved that lawsuit. They'd faced numerous suits and warnings before and maintained negligent practices. The woman faced incredibly serious burns that were preventable.

Your post then dives into a rant about what we should like the answer is clear. "Opening the economy" too soon may be worse for the economy. Arguing against strawmen isn't helpful. EVERYONE WANTS THE ECONOMY OPEN. Not just you. We're just trying to figure out how to get there.

Edit: Pete and others already responded to this and I saw after I posted it. I can't believe after learning about the McDonald's case details anyone would think that it is a good example, but whatever.
Yeah I get it. I made a mistake here. I have to laugh at myself. What else can I do.

There is a major outbreak of COVID happening in Guymon and Texas County right now. The county is now 5th in confirmed cases in the state even though its population is fairly low.

Not sure why the Oklahoman hasn't covered this but Guymon has a major meat processing plant, Seaboard Farms. I don't know for a fact but it is likely that this is the source of the outbreak, like other meat-packing facilities in South Dakota and other states.

This needs more attention:

https://abc7amarillo.com/news/local/texas-county-has-5th-highest-number-of-covid-19-cases-in-oklahoma

But there are three rural counties in western Kansas where the positive numbers are much higher. One is where Dodge City is. It reflects why the number of positive cases in Kansas have suddenly shot well above Oklahoma's. Nebraska has also shot well above Oklahoma. I wonder how long it will be before meat processing plants can get back to normal.

But there are three rural counties in western Kansas where the positive numbers are much higher. One is where Dodge City is. It reflects why the number of positive cases in Kansas have suddenly shot well above Oklahoma's. Nebraska has also shot well above Oklahoma. I wonder how long it will be before meat processing plants can get back to normal.

Why aren't they testing the workers? That's how to get back to normal. Test everyone. Have the sick ones stay home.