I would agree with Pete too; it would make sense that Devon might somehow be involved. Based on what it seems Devon and Chesapeake are doing in their respective neighborhoods (making them great to make it easier to attract qualified talent to the market), it makes sense that they would be interested in positively influencing live/shop/play options in their general vicinity, beyond the footprints of their actual office buildings.

Something is going to happen on that block but I can't imagine what because several buildings aren't going anywhere but to historic significance: Main Place (city owned), One North Hudson, and the American Motor Hotel. And you could probably add the Carpenter Square and Bus Station to that list, although a promise to build something significant would probably be enough excuse to scrape those as well.

Still, that leaves a pretty chopped-up block. I could see everything west of One North Hudson being replaced with a significant building and Carpenter Square and the three small buildings west of it meeting the same fate.

Something is going to happen on that block but I can't imagine what because several buildings aren't going anywhere but to historic significance: Main Place (city owned), One North Hudson, and the American Motor Hotel. And you could probably add the Carpenter Square and Bus Station to that list, although a promise to build something significant would probably be enough excuse to scrape those as well.

Still, that leaves a pretty chopped-up block. I could see everything west of One North Hudson being replaced with a significant building and Carpenter Square and the three small buildings west of it meeting the same fate.

It would be funny if in fact Devon is using Preftakes as a "caretaker", because Devon is dodging bullets by secretly using Preftakes while Chesapeake buys up everything around them and some of the buildings they have bought that have historical significance they plan on demolishing and rebuilding something "newer" have brought on a lot of heat to theor name.

Not a knock on Chesapeake, just a funny little thought.

CHK has used shadow companies to acquire property around town even though they have a dedicated real estate entity: CHK Land Company. They bought an entire street of homes in Nichols Hills just north of the Plaza under a different name.

And of course recently, Continental used a broker as a middle man to hold the old Devon building until they announced their plans.

I was just comparing Chesapeake and Devon since those were the two mentioned but yeah, companies that buy buildings and land usually do it through a middle man from my experience unless they want to just be as straight forward about it as possible.

BTW, "Chespeake Land Company" isn't as secretive of a name as "Nicholas Preftakes". :LolLolLol

Although the bus station as a diner is a great idea, the Lunch Box as it is currently managed would not be a good operator. They are only open for lunch (10:30AM - 3PM), not even breakfast let alone dinner or later. AND they are completely closed on weekends.

If they want to survive in their current form, they are going to need inexpensive space to make their business work.


As far as Preftakes, it sounds like he may be a caretaker / agent / middle man for Devon. He's spent a lot of money and if anything has reduced his income by not renewing leases and not even trying to lease vacant space. How could he plunk down tens of millions, not generate much income and just sit on all these properties unless he had partners with deep pockets?

I suspect Devon will have a hand in redeveloping much of that block, and I hope that's the case. It's going to happen and you might as well have someone behind it that can do things right.

I agree with you about LunchBox being a poor choice for the bus station diner concept. But I have to take issue with the comment about Devon. While they may indeed care a great deal about improving the surrounding neighborhood, inner-city retail/office/restaurant/housing development is not their forte.

guru, Devon has brought in some big-hitters for both their new complex, the Myriad Gardens and Project 180.

Top architects (both landscape and otherwise), contractors, developers, lighting companies... From all over the country.

I'm sure if they do any more development in town they will go out and get some of the best to help them.

Until recently, Devon was not in the hotel business either. Anything is possible when you have as much stroke as they do.

Devon seems astute in determining where they have expertise and where they need help.

They also seem willing to pay for the best in their respective fields: Pickard Chilton, Hines, James Burnett, Gensler, etc.

It helps they have tons of money but there also seems to be a commitment to doing things right and to listening to people who know what they are doing. I can't think of another entity I'd rather have develop a big downtown project.

:iagree: Devon is a dream corporate citizen despite the occasional misperception of their intent. They would be welcome in any city and we should be very glad they chose to remain in OKC when they could have been long gone. They are very good at what "they do" and smart enough to recognize when they need help and get the best to provide the assistance.

Until recently, Devon was not in the hotel business either. Anything is possible when you have as much stroke as they do.

You have to remember their 'extension' is 844 feet, lol

Devon wasn't in the public park business either. Seems like MBG has turned out OK. I for one am TOTALLY down with Devon helping make over its immediate neighborhood.

+1

I'm down with it as well. :-) +2

I happen to work with a lady whose husband is a very high up city official ( we've all seen him on TV at one time or another), she told me last year that Devon gets what they want just about whenever they want......but that they have good intentions.

So in other words, Devon is the spoiled little brat but is spoiled because they do everything right and they do it so good? Lol

Devon wasn't in the public park business either. Seems like MBG has turned out OK. I for one am TOTALLY down with Devon helping make over its immediate neighborhood.

Devon also wasn't in the Convention Center business and the Ford site is a terrible choice.

-1

Well I say awesome tower so +1. Just got another + back. ;-)

Devon also wasn't in the Convention Center business and the Ford site is a terrible choice.

-1

-1 One of their few missteps, but unfortunately a huge one I think. But, was it Devon the corporation, or Larry Nichols the member of the CC Committee that was responsible? And can the two possibly be separated? I doubt it and that just shows that no one gets it right every time.

Maybe we should wait and see what gets built before we jump off the cliff. You never know, with the small footprint, could get a real tall hotel that would please a few on this board.....Not everyone can be pleased all of the time, and there's been instances where public input has changed the end result... walnut street bridge ? Maybe some things will change for the better down the road.

I happen to work with a lady whose husband is a very high up city official ( we've all seen him on TV at one time or another), she told me last year that Devon gets what they want just about whenever they want......but that they have good intentions.

The addition of future storefronts on the first floor of the parking garage is evidence this is not true; Urban Design insisted on it, Devon argued against it, but was overruled.

there are no store fronts on the devon parking garage ...

there are glass show boxes .. that are concrete blocked in and no space was reserved behind them for future expansion ... .. seems to me that devon won ..

Maybe we should wait and see what gets built before we jump off the cliff. You never know, with the small footprint, could get a real tall hotel that would please a few on this board.....Not everyone can be pleased all of the time, and there's been instances where public input has changed the end result... walnut street bridge ? Maybe some things will change for the better down the road.
C'mon now....why disturb a good rant.

Maybe we should wait and see what gets built before we jump off the cliff. You never know, with the small footprint, could get a real tall hotel that would please a few on this board.....Not everyone can be pleased all of the time, and there's been instances where public input has changed the end result... walnut street bridge ? Maybe some things will change for the better down the road.

maybe the only good thing about the site selection .. ..is the site and possibility of a show piece hotel on the eastern end of that site across the street from the arena

Devon wasn't in the public park business either. Seems like MBG has turned out OK. I for one am TOTALLY down with Devon helping make over its immediate neighborhood.

Why are people causing so much fuss over the WHO? Obviously as far as personas go, yeah Devon is awesome. But I for one will base my judgment of development strictly on that development. My favorite person in the world could propose a terrible project and I would do what I can to oppose it, simple as that. And vice versa is true too, in fact, I don't like Aubrey all that much, yet I personally think what he's done around 63rd Street has been nothing short of amazing and I hope it continues. And that's a development that is controversial and does have a lot of opposition.

As for Devon and Preftakes, let's not pretend that there aren't things that don't raise concerns. The Lunch Box leaving is a shame. Furthermore, there is a lot of history on that block that needs to be saved, and that level of preservation (a whole block as dense as that uber-dense block) is a tall order for any well-minded person. That doesn't mean there aren't a ton of properties there that I see as being essential. I will be very closely watching what happens with that block, but for now, I will be seriously hoping Devon appreciates historic structures as much as the rest of OKC does.

There is no doubt in my mind that block between Hudson and Walker can be a really stellar block if polished and shined-up. When there is no doubt in my mind what the best outcome for that block is in advance of any of their plans coming out, it's hard not to go on the proactive. Many a development battle has been lost because the people with the better vision were slow starting out, i.e., SandRidge. It's my hope that Devon HEARS people echoing an urban/preservation vision for this block, and heeds that well. Saving just one or two structures or leveling the whole block for new stuff is just not an acceptable outcome, even if sold as a "compromise" just because of the sheer volume of other vacant lots around downtown. And especially after Preftakes just leveled another block. You don't get to level a block here, a Stage Center there, amidst a city that is hemorrhaging old buildings LEFT AND RIGHT, and get away with it. I don't care how "structurally obsolete" (or whatever the 2012 version of that misnomer will be) the buildings on that block are invaluable in their character and feel.

I happen to work with a lady whose husband is a very high up city official ( we've all seen him on TV at one time or another), she told me last year that Devon gets what they want just about whenever they want......but that they have good intentions.

I don't think anyone can disagree with EITHER of these. Maybe these two statements qualify as OKC maxims? And obviously, can't say enough that nobody gets it right 100% of the time. But downtown isn't about one person's vision. It's a collective vision that downtown will have to evolve from. And when someone else's vision is stronger regarding a particular block, well you get my point. Unfortunately downtown development, more than anywhere else for obvious reasons, is too ego-driven and companies and developers are often engaged in defending their vision even when they know they're wrong. Thus we have debates, controversy, and development battles...more often than we should.

there are no store fronts on the devon parking garage ...

there are glass show boxes .. that are concrete blocked in and no space was reserved behind them for future expansion ... .. seems to me that devon won ..

Yes, there is space for those to become storefronts. They are designed to be easily adapted.

You don't get to level a block here, a Stage Center there, amidst a city that is hemorrhaging old buildings LEFT AND RIGHT, and get away with it. I don't care how "structurally obsolete" (or whatever the 2012 version of that misnomer will be) the buildings on that block are invaluable in their character and feel.

I take it you're against demolition of the Stage Center? I'm pleasantly surprised. ;)

The addition of future storefronts on the first floor of the parking garage is evidence this is not true; Urban Design insisted on it, Devon argued against it, but was overruled.

Do you know if this is going to be a requirement for all future parking garages, Steve?

I take it you're against demolition of the Stage Center? I'm pleasantly surprised. ;)

He made that known a LONG time ago. Welcome to the party. ;-) lol

I take it you're against demolition of the Stage Center? I'm pleasantly surprised. ;)

Yessir, haven't been too vocal, I've just been kinda busy personally and I'm a little fatigued from these preservation battles and not sure I'm interested in another...

The addition of future storefronts on the first floor of the parking garage is evidence this is not true; Urban Design insisted on it, Devon argued against it, but was overruled.
steve +1

I moved the discussion about the Dowell garage to this thread:

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=26658&highlight=dowell

I agree about Lunch Box being a little gross - I used to eat there a bit a few years back and it did seem a little dirty; although it wasn't nearly as nasty as Pizza Town. I never went back there after I went in once and saw cockroaches roaming around. Talk about nasty.

In Steve's blog it's mentioned that the Lunch Box was interested in moving to the new Devon complex but there was no interest on Devon's side.

I believe this is where one of the parking garages is going...I am gonna miss this block.. This was where i grew up!!! used to play video games at the bus station and shoot pool at Bruno's building...

Where is this....

I believe this is where one of the parking garages is going...I am gonna miss this block.. This was where i grew up!!! used to play video games at the bus station and shoot pool at Bruno's building...

Is there a preface to this post?

Lots better locations for parking garages than this site which, by the way, already contains a large parking structure.

Lots better locations for parking garages than this site which, by the way, already contains a large parking structure.

It is probably going there because of the adjacent Charter School. Teachers have to park somewhere. It could also suggest possible residential building by Preftakes that the city knows about but public does not.

The city-owned Walker/Sheridan garage is directly across the street and not fully utilized.

Plus, there is lots of under-developed properties to the west that would work just as well and not take a prime development block.

i think this is going to be a spec office tower ... maybe partial funded by devon ... which would also serve as thier long term expansion site...

i think this is going to be a spec office tower ... maybe partial funded by devon ... which would also serve as thier long term expansion site...

+1

Boulder, I would love that to be true but I've heard that Oklahoma Tower would be there long-term expansion option.

Boulder, I would love that to be true but I've heard that Oklahoma Tower would be there long-term expansion option.

interesting ... either way that will be good for the downtown office market ...

but with all of this expansion by devon/sandridge/contential if we want any one new downtown we are going to see some spec office at some point

Agree completely about the spec office space and have even proposed that a good chunk of the Boeing jobs be used as an anchor tenant. Boeing is only interested in leasing buildings and the newest 900 - 1,000 positions don't necessarily need to be near the ones currently near Tinker.

OKC will not be able to recruit bigger companies without available office space. As it stands, there are not significant blocks of space downtown or elsewhere. The whole reason we got SandRidge and Continental was due to attractive real estate opportunities and the ability to move quickly.

I would like to see Devon with some local developer and start planning a large spec tower. It would take years to get it on-line anyway and by then our office space situation is going to be much more tight than it is now.

It is probably going there because of the adjacent Charter School. Teachers have to park somewhere. It could also suggest possible residential building by Preftakes that the city knows about but public does not.

Word is, my friends, that charter school is not going to be built. It's very likely been scuttled. I'd give it a 10% chance of surviving. Guess who's responsible.

I wouldn't be surprised if some parking went in on that block. A large parking structure was mentioned that already exists, but my understanding is there is no available parking in that garage and it isn't a typical garage (very tight turns, etc, some vehicles can't fit). I don't know that the entire block would need to be taken, but parking on that lot would allow for closer parking for the library, courthouse, city buildings, etc.

Word is, my friends, that charter school is not going to be built. It's very likely been scuttled. I'd give it a 10% chance of surviving. Guess who's responsible.

The downtown school has been a part of MAPS for KIDS from the beginning. The city has never not completed a MAPS project to some degree.

It would be a shame if they demolished the Main street streetwall, why not put a garage on the surface lot on the north side of Main?

At this late stage, I canna imagine the DT elementary getting scuttled and not going forward.

If your contact has information that strikes him as valid, he ought to plop it, through a third party if necessary, in the hands of the media. This would not amount to a tiny story for whomever would run with it (assuming they could run with it of course.)

This is front page Breaking News if it is true!

Somehow though, I am thinking the new convention center has something to do with this?

This guy just made a profile. It will be interesting to see if InsiderInfo responds again in this or the downtown school thread. It reminds me of when someone came on and said that IKEA was a done deal to come to Yukon and then was never heard from again.

This guy just made a profile. It will be interesting to see if InsiderInfo responds again in this or the downtown school thread. It reminds me of when someone came on and said that IKEA was a done deal to come to Yukon and then was never heard from again.

Sorry--to keep this thread on topic, I posted on the Downtown school thread. Continue talking about Preftakes! Nothing to see here.

Boulder, I would love that to be true but I've heard that Oklahoma Tower would be there long-term expansion option.

Where did you hear this? It is full. And does not have room for 900 employees even when Continental moves out.

They wouldn't need expansion space for at least five years, in which time lots of the existing leases will have expired.

Heard it from the most reliable source possible.


Of course, this could change if Oklahoma Tower sells in the interim.

They wouldn't need expansion space for at least five years

I figured they built the tower with room for expected employee growth for the next 20 years at least.

They are likely to have all the space they need for quite some time.

My point was there is absolutely no way they'd need more within five years.

I agree, but I don't think Devon will expand for a while, nor will they build another tower. Expanding to another existing building will defeat the purpose of building the new tower all together.

The Preftakes block would be a good location for a new skyscraper in the near future, but not by Devon. The best options now for a new corporate tower downtown would be from Continental Resources, American Fidelity, and now I am going to throw Boeing in there with recent news. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing doesn't establish Oklahoma City as their regional headquarters or something.

With that being said, I could see the Preftakes block being used for a new skyscraper as well has housing, there is plenty of room.

They are likely to have all the space they need for quite some time.

My point was there is absolutely no way they'd need more within five years.

Comcast thought the same thing. Intially they thought they would only need 44% of their new building. Five years after moving in they have all of it except one floor and had to re-lease all of the space they thought they were vacating around downtown Philly.


Construction for Comcast Center will begin in mid-January 2005, and the building is expected to be complete in the fall of 2007. Comcast Center will rise 975 feet or 57 stories, and contain 1.2 million square feet of useable space. Comcast will initially occupy 24 floors, or about 44% of the rentable office space, encompassing 534,000 square feet. Comcast, which currently has 1,300 headquarters employees, is initially leasing sufficient space to accommodate more than 1,900 employees. Over the next decade, Comcast will have options to expand to accommodate 3,000 to 4,000 total employees.