I always use the 1000 mile rule. I live 1000 miles away. If I can know what is going on in OKC there is no reason someone living there shouldn't know.

...and I always use the View from the Top down. At the ground level, we are making it happen and there a few mistakes along the way. (this is the human factor). You have to break some eggs, ..if you won't an omlet.

From 1,000 ft we look like ants, ...working together.

From 50,000 ft, our City Shines bright again, at night. ...yes, it truly is working fine.

Nick mentioned to someone the other day that you are responsible for "soft-selling" Ed's campaign message to this forum.

While not surprising in the least, it would have been a little more honest (and transparent?) had krisb made that known from the beginning. I knew he was volunteering, maybe I missed that he was planted here.

Actually, if anyone wants really extensive information about the public meetings in 2010 Doug Loudenback attended some and wrote very extensive descriptions of them. Interestingly, in a survey of attendees, who encompassed a wide variety of transit enthusiasts and interested public, IIRC, the Health Sciences center scored lowest both as a high priority destination and anchor destination. There were more meetings other than these later in the year or in early 2011 that I also attended, but I haven't found any good summaries of them.

Doug Dawgz Blog: Blogging Rail At LetsTalkTransit (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2010/03/blogging-rail-at-letstalktransit.html?m=1)

Maybe If there was a mass mailer that told every citizen of the city that there were two traditional media outlets that they could read, and at least one informed internet forum, then they would understand transparency. My version of sarcasm. Extra credit goes to people who might read a local blog.

I'm just stunned a process that seems pretty open and transparent is getting labeled as "back-door dealings". Some people are acting like because they chose not participate these meetings didn't happen. Hey, I'm biased and have been for Mayor Cornett from day one but I've yet to see anything out of Shadid that makes me even slightly comfortable with the thought of him being Mayor. The longer this drags on, the less I can see what anyone sees in this guy (unless you are part of the unions that hate Cornett).

Can Ed do anything going forward to kill the streetcar or was Tuesday his final attempt?

Get elected Mayor and get a lackey elected to the Ward 2 seat.

Don't ever underestimate the importance of changing compositions on the council. It's the people who aren't even here yet that are the biggest threat to such a project - sage advice from the Mayor of Tucson.

Can Ed do anything going forward to kill the streetcar or was Tuesday his final attempt?

He can vote against the construction contract. He could vote against purchasing trainsets. And, if he were to obtain a block of votes, he could still vote to rescind the entire thing. One of the two final Cincinnati mayoral candidates has vowed to remove the streetcar track that is being installed starting next month, should he win. Take Scott Walker in Wisconsin for example as well - he turned back over $100M that had already been awarded to WI by the Feds for rail from Chicago to Madison. They had even purchased two trainsets (or more?). Those trainsets are now being sold to west coast Amtrak-related operations. Anti-streetcar isn't put to bed until the streetcar is operating.

I guess I don't get it. Why are so many people opposed to rail based mass transit? It is the single most efficient mode of transportation in the history of the world. One line of rail can transport the same number of people as 15 lanes of interstate.

This is directly from Ed and his post of Steve's article about him:

"Both Pete White and I made clear during the meeting that after this vote we were all in on the streetcar project to make it the best it could be. "

If this is accurate, then he will vote for whatever is to come in the future for the streetcar. Ask questions, sure, that is the one thing I can appreciate about him is that he asks the tough questions to get people talking, but don't derail an entire idea that a majority of the people in the city voted for.

While not surprising in the least, it would have been a little more honest (and transparent?) had krisb made that known from the beginning. I knew he was volunteering, maybe I missed that he was planted here.

I've decided that krisb is either a relative of Ed or just a brainwashee of Ed.

What's important here though, Ed is being exposed to anyone who cares to read the thread.

Garbage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofEhOQop5Xw

This is why the "loyal opposition" label is ludicrous. They don't have a solution. They just want to stop progress because someone wealthy might be a beneficiary of progress. They obviously have contempt for successful people, developers and businesses.

When building mass transit, seriously, what is the alternative? How are we going to build mass transit and make damn sure no one benefits from it? MAPS has always been about growing the economy through development which attracts businesses. One of the keys to attracting big business is a vibrant, fun, accessible downtown. The Not This Maps II folks are missing the forest for the trees.

Q: How do we pay for expanded transit?
A: Expand the tax base.
Q: How do we expand the tax base?
A: Get more people to shop and live in OKC and attract businesses.
Q: How do we accomplish that?
A: By making OKC a more attractive place to shop and live and have a business.

While public transit better serving lower income neighborhoods is certainly a laudable goal, let's not put the cart before the horse. MAPS has historically been a major growth vehicle. It will continue to be such. MAPS is a gamble, but it's one which has historically paid off.

I've never understood the theory of MAPS only benefiting the rich, especially the transit portion. I live near downtown and I know many people living in apartments downtown that would use the streetcar...none are people I would consider rich. It seems like a very weak talking point.

I've never understood the theory of MAPS only benefiting the rich, especially the transit portion. I live near downtown and I know many people living in apartments downtown that would use the streetcar...none are people I would consider rich. It seems like a very weak talking point.

When I lived downtown, I used the transit system to get from my apartment at Sycamore to Bricktown on occasion. Had it been more reliable, I would have used it a lot.

When I lived downtown, I used the transit system to get from my apartment at Sycamore to Bricktown on occasion. Had it been more reliable, I would have used it a lot.

I walk or take a cab from mesta park...if I could walk down to 11th and take something that's reliable to Bricktown/downtown, I would use it often as well.

...
From 50,000 ft, our City Shines bright again, at night. ...

But from at least one or two seats on the horseshoe apparently the city still seems more desolate, dark, and depressing than tugging on a wet rope with 24601

I've decided that krisb is either a relative of Ed or just a brainwashee of Ed.

What's important here though, Ed is being exposed to anyone who cares to read the thread.

This should end any doubt. From Ed's facebook campaign site:

4532

I find it terribly ironic that key quotes re gimmicks which are stated in an article criticizing supposed lack of transparency is from someone who cannot even be identified by name, yet they are fine with taking pot shots. This shows the level of credibility of the article as a serious piece of journalism....which is ZERO. This article was written by a third grader or less.

These street car deniers are starting to get on my nerves. If you're in favor of improving the bus system then you should be doubly in favor of a street car because it's like a bus but on rails so people can feel confident about the direction they're going. What's so hard to understand about that? Also street cars spawn TIF zones. I'd like to see a bus route do that.

Some people just hate progress.

I find it terribly ironic that key quotes re gimmicks which are stated in an article criticizing supposed lack of transparency is from someone who cannot even be identified by name, yet they are fine with taking pot shots. This shows the level of credibility of the article as a serious piece of journalism....which is ZERO. This article was written by a third grader or less.

Nope, just someone with a specific agenda. Not uncommon on most blogs. Even those which offer more than one perspective will often have an obvious slant in an individual article.

This should end any doubt. From Ed's facebook campaign site:

4532

Just a supporter hoping to not be a lone voice. There is actually nothing wrong with that. When folks adopt a position, they often want others to join in their perspective. Given the difficulty inherent in spreading a message for someone who offers an inconsistent message, and I do believe being inconsistent about the streetcar is a fair characterization of candidate Shadid, I can understand the desire to have others tout what they see as good about the candidate they are supporting.

I consider it a tough sell, but they certainly have the right to try and sell their guy as the next best choice. Fortunately for them, as I can not vote, what I think about their candidate is not all that material.

KrisB needs to realize too that this thread is not a political thread and if he gets a bunch of new registered users turning this thread into that...Pete will swoop in and delete all their posts!

This should end any doubt. From Ed's facebook campaign site:

4532

Something makes me think that post is just a little too conspicuous. Like he expected folks here to find it.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we ultimately found out that the KrisB account here were actually Shadid himself posting under a pseudonym?

This is directly from Ed and his post of Steve's article about him:

"Both Pete White and I made clear during the meeting that after this vote we were all in on the streetcar project to make it the best it could be. "

Taken with a grain of salt - all one needs to not trust this is a quick look at Ed's campaign material from a couple years ago. Missouri rules now apply - Show me.

I am not a fan of the route either, but I wouldn't be willing to kill the whole project over it.

I also hate the approved route to be honest, but I am at least mature enough to recognize that a route is better than no route.

I suspect that the current route was arrived upon as a compromise (usually the first step to progress) between Sid and other bus advocates and the streetcar/planning advocates, perhaps even brokered by someone who can firmly stand in both circles (gee, who would that be?). I've been very removed from being involved for the last few months, but that's just my guess.

I wouldn't oppose serving the existing awful bus transfer center IF it was on a destination corridor already, but it isn't, and on its own hardly merits moving the route. First of all, bus lines are MOVABLE and should come to the streetcar and not the other way around, and second of all the new system we're planning will serve far more than 12,000 riders.

However there are a lot of positives to consider: With current bus riders prioritized ahead of any other current downtown constituency, the streetcar system is more politically sound and stable despite a rocky 2 years, and we can all feel better about the project knowing that. Additionally, the route will also incentivize more new infill TOD now that it traverses a path with a much lower Floor Area Ratio (FAR). The route I preferred all the way down Robinson traversed a path that is built-out, so TOD would have to be redevelopment and renovation.

Lastly, I can also appreciate the philosophical considerations for OKC if it has become a city where service-dependent constituencies can overpower economic development interests, suggesting a more liberal civic climate than we've usually seen in OKC. There are pros and cons to the route we've come to, but regardless we are moving ahead and making progress. That's what matters the most.

Something makes me think that post is just a little too conspicuous. Like he expected folks here to find it.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we ultimately found out that the KrisB account here were actually Shadid himself posting under a pseudonym?

krisb is a real person and a Shadid volunteer.

Something makes me think that post is just a little too conspicuous. Like he expected folks here to find it.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we ultimately found out that the KrisB account here were actually Shadid himself posting under a pseudonym?


Nah. I think there is a KrisB. I think there is something about Candidate Shadid that resonate with him. If that is correct, he absolutely ought to pitch the positions out for discussion, and invite others to do so as well. It is entirely possible to discuss the various possible futures of OKC without it being a downward spiral into petty politics. I may never find a common ground, or I may find some, but the lad has a right to hold a contrary viewpoint, as does his candidate.

Where a candidate loses me, any candidate, is to pitch something while also saying that is not what is being pitched. Candidate Shadid for example may have truly meant the statement of being all in on the streetcar. His trouble is that for some time folks felt he meant what he said during his campaign, and then after the election he gave many appearances of going in a different direction. There are bound to be other streetcar related matters before council in the months before the election. He will have ample opportunity to demonstrate he is truly all in ... or not. I aimagine folks will be watching more closely now either way.

Flashback: Ed Shadid on MAPS 3, Streetcars | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/flashback-ed-shadid-on-maps-3-streetcars/article/3886493)
It's always interesting to revisit campaign promises.
I agree. The question is, do we hold them accountable for what they said and did?



Steve is questioning the results of one of OKC's consultants who are also involved in an Atlanta project. I understand his question but see no reason to think that just because Atlanta is over budget that OKC would fall into the same situation just because of the same company being involved. Could happen, but we could also end up under budget. …
Given OKC track record with prior MAPS and what we have seen go wrong so far with a few other MAPS 3 projects, the odds don't seem to be in the Streetcars favor. But then again, maybe they can buck the trend and do just that (I hope they do).

Despite the obvious inefficiency, one thing that may contribute to cost control is Project 180. Many known utility and structural obstacles have already been identified and eliminated. The "surprise" utility bunkers and unmapped basements are what kill budgets quicker than just about anything else. So even though we will be cutting into some relatively new concrete, having P180 complete along sections of the route should be helpful.

I agree. The question is, do we hold them accountable for what they said and did?



Given OKC track record with prior MAPS and what we have seen go wrong so far with a few other MAPS 3 projects, the odds don't seem to be in the Streetcars favor. But then again, maybe they can buck the trend and do just that (I hope they do).

We have so far and this has been going on since 2005. A pretty good political track record. Plus, Meg can vote again. Keep that in mind. It will take either some dying, being arrested, or the switch in Mayorship/WARD 2 seats to really stop this project now. All very possible. You never know. Tuesday vote does demonstrate however that the streetcar project can take everything, including the kitchen sink thrown at it, and survive on it's own merits.

The biggest one being that the people voted for it.

UP, I'm completely sincere. Aside from being in a very public spot, you might be spilling beans that could cause problems for a wealthy dude that obviously is bent on achieving a serious change in the political landscape for whatever reason. If there is underhanded crap going on, I want to know and spread the word. I live in Ward 2 and so many are taking Ed as a liberal savior, which is obviously not the case. Just simply seeking information as to how and why he's trying to derail (please forgive) the somewhat flawed, but obviously successful MAPS programs and the Streetcar that was previously voter approved (notwithstanding a few grumpy logrolling accusations) at this stage in the game. I completely understand that you must speak with considered words.

I am very glad to hear this. I will definitely be writing/speaking with considered words. The reality is that there is a great deal going on. Some of the stuff can easily be pointed to and collated, other stuff is more amorphous. I've actually had to do my real job today so there really hasn't been a good chance to carefully think everything through post Tuesday's vote.

Ed Shadid and Pete White were big LOSERS on this. Bottom line. They completely sold out to kill this MAPS project and got whooped. Now they're trying to act all nice and pretend they didn't summon every ounce of political opposition to kill this. We know better. They lost, big, and are reduced to pathetic "we are on board now" appeals. Forget them, but don't forget what they tried to do to this city and how they tried to circumvent our vote.

Since Shadid is much older than me, I'm certain he won't be fighting against the senior aquatic centers.

Ed Shadid and Pete White were big LOSERS on this. Bottom line. They completely sold out to kill this MAPS project and got whooped. Now they're trying to act all nice and pretend they didn't summon every ounce of political opposition to kill this. We know better. They lost, big, and are reduced to pathetic "we are on board now" appeals. Forget them, but don't forget what they tried to do to this city and how they tried to circumvent our vote.

And let's not forget Greiner. He's apparently such a moron that he let himself be manipulated by these other two. Ward 1 could do a whole lot better.

(of course, God put him in office, so maybe God put him there to lose this vote? He really works in mysterious ways... I guess?)

And let's not forget Greiner. He's apparently such a moron that he let himself be manipulated by these other two. Ward 1 could do a whole lot better.

Which is why, as a Ward 1 resident I immediately sent him an email to him as soon as I heard about his vote to let him know exactly how I felt and to let him know I wouldn't forget it.

And let's not forget Greiner. He's apparently such a moron that he let himself be manipulated by these other two. Ward 1 could do a whole lot better.

(of course, God put him in office, so maybe God put him there to lose this vote? He really works in mysterious ways... I guess?)

Since he didn't bother to learn anything about a $130 million city project he has influence over before voting, maybe a recall due to incompetence and / or indifference should be considered?

For those of you sending e-mails to Greiner, please let us know if/how he responds and what he says.

Being from Ward 2, I don't think it's probably worth my time to draft a letter to my councilman about my displeasure with his vote...

Since he didn't bother to learn anything about a $130 million city project he has influence over before voting, maybe a recall due to incompetence and / indifference should be considered?

I've already looked into it. Unless a recall had major funding, it's kind of a waste of time. I started to write him an email a couple of times today, but this idiot seems unpersuaded by facts. It'd be a waste of time.

For those of you sending e-mails to Greiner, please let us know if/how he responds and what he says.

Being from Ward 2, I don't think it's probably worth my time to draft a letter to my councilman about my displeasure with his vote...
So far, I've had absolutely no response.

My name is Kris Bryant and I am a real person. I am the past president of the Skyline Neighborhood Association, a licensed professional counselor, and a father of three adopted children. While I signed up to volunteer for Shadid's campaign, I have not yet participated in any official campaign activities (besides attending the rally). Yes, Shadid's vision and values resonate with me and I wish more of his supporters would express themselves on this forum. I have tried to have real conversations and ask real questions on this forum and not resort to namecalling or personal attacks. Mick's supporters have made their views clearly known, it is only fair that I should be allowed to do the same. I have acknowledged that I am not anti-Mick but pro-Ed. I admit, I do get defensive of Shadid's positions and leadership record as he has garnered my early support and loyalty in this campaign. You can follow me on Twitter @krisbinokc.

Kris...this is not a political thread. There is a whole other subforum for you to preach at on the front page. Go find it.

Kris...this is not a political thread. There is a whole other subforum for you to preach at on the front page. Go find it.

Sorry, just responding to the comments made about me in this thread. Also, there are quite a few political statements that have already been made by others.

I like you Krisb. It makes me really sad that you and others have fallen for this guy.

I understand why. I fought like hell for him to win his Ward 2 seat. But as a volunteer with city issues (not just streetcar), all I have seen is wreckless behavior, attempts at stimulating class warfare, divisiveness, and bridge burning.

There is no way that Ed can be an effectual mayor after all the things he's done to volunteers and elected officials all ready serving this city in other capacities. Not to mention the most signifficant thing, and absolute assualt on the majority elected MAPS 3 program (particularly the voter endorsed streetcar).

My name is Kris Bryant and I am a real person. I am the past president of the Skyline Neighborhood Association, a licensed professional counselor, and a father of three adopted children. While I signed up to volunteer for Shadid's campaign, I have not yet participated in any official campaign activities (besides attending the rally). Yes, Shadid's vision and values resonate with me and I wish more of his supporters would express themselves on this forum. I have tried to have real conversations and ask real questions on this forum and not resort to namecalling or personal attacks. Mick's supporters have made their views clearly known, it is only fair that I should be allowed to do the same. I have acknowledged that I am not anti-Mick but pro-Ed. I admit, I do get defensive of Shadid's positions and leadership record as he has garnered my early support and loyalty in this campaign. You can follow me on Twitter @krisbinokc.

While in a 6-3 minority which doesn't appear to be changing, how would you propose Shadid accomplish even a single item on his agenda. The truly politically active folks are on notice and Greiner and White are in the crosshairs and I have some real doubts about Shadid's ability to even carry his own ward after these recent shenanigans.

The outrage here at Ed's attack on the streetcar is justified. There was a long and very transparent process. A process he never once even tried to have input in. When it came down to time for the Council to endorse it, which should have been a formality, Shadid embarked on a no-holds barred attack on the proposal, not even really worrying whether he was getting his facts right. The alternate plan was a joke. Shadid's own admission was that he's been to a conference on rail planning. Well wow. I guess he would know better than a committee full of folks who have also been to conventions, also read books and here's the linchpin--folks who actually had experience in picking routes. I know... crazy, right?

But here's the thing about Ed. No matter what, your support is futile. The large majority of OKC residents want to see MAPS III implemented as closely to the plan as it can be implemented. Even if Ed wins this thing, he'll have either a 6-4 split against him or a 7-3, depending on who ends up in Ward 2. He will have alienated the Council so much at that point that he won't be able to accomplish anymore than having a bunch of pressers where he trashes the rest of the Council for refusing to see his wisdom.

I've said it before. Please don't Tulsa my OKC.

I was a very early Shadid-hater. I have posted, and re-posted my original thoughts on Shadid several times over the past few years. However, after he got elected I began to change my opinion from 'sell', to 'hold', and then to 'buy', but about 9 months ago I started figuring out that I was right the first time after the actions weren't following the words. From an urban development standpoint it seemed Shadid and I had a lot in common. He was for mass transit, controlling urban sprawl, promoting walkability, and the like, but then he seems to have become much more focused on the special interest groups which is why I didn't like him originally. In the case of the police force, he wants to hire more policemen but I want to create an urban environment with 'eyes on the street' that reduces the need for policemen. Shadid wants more firemen, but I want to create an urban environment that reduces the need for firemen (easily done through traffic-calming and walkability). You can't serve 2 masters. You either believe that quality urbanism creates a more livable world with a better quality of life or you don't. He says he does but he votes that he doesn't.

With specifics to the streetcar - thousands of people move to metro OKC every month. Those people can either live in a high density urban core areas with access to efficient, reliable, and permanent mass transit, or they can move to the low density suburban fringe (and all the inefficiencies of scale it brings with it), buy a couple of cars, and get on the freeway with everyone else.

With specifics to the streetcar - thousands of people move to metro OKC every month. Those people can either live in a high density urban core areas with access to efficient, reliable, and permanent mass transit, or they can move to the low density suburban fringe (and all the inefficiencies of scale it brings with it), buy a couple of cars, and get on the freeway with everyone else.

I'm going on the assumption by living you include working. Most of OKC metro jobs aren't in the urban core. Only a small percent are. Most likely will remain that way for a very long time, if not as long as OKC exists.

So far, I've had absolutely no response.

I actually emailed him after Shadid's NewsOK rant requesting he not support Shadid for mayor.

He actually called me about a week later, but I never got a chance to return his call, and a week later he emailed me to follow up again. I got slammed at work and never got a chance to reply again, but I did reply to his email on Tuesday afternoon asking if my wife and I could chat with him sometime about his stance on issues regarding the city, not just our ward.

I'm going on the assumption by living you include working. Most of OKC metro jobs aren't in the urban core. Only a small percent are. Most likely will remain that way for a very long time, if not as long as OKC exists.

Historically, most jobs follow the people.

Historically, most jobs follow the people.

Tinker, OU, FAA etc, etc, etc. Aren't moving downtown. Ever.

Downtown is going to grow into OUHSC. That being said, there's time to connect it, as it hasn't happened yet and connectivity will be more important when we have commuter rail. There are a lot of people who work at the HSC who live in Edmond, Moore and Norman.

There are lots of things that aren't ever moving downtown. Usually downtowns have financial institutions, advertising agencies, businesses related to the legal system. Obviously in Oklahoma city, the petroleum industry has a concentration downtown and that may increase over time.

What usually happens in most cities is that there are pockets of commercial development in other places as well. And then there are all sorts of jobs that are not business-related, of course. In Oklahoma City, there will be a certain percentage of the population, especially the younger people and we empty nesters for whom downtown has a lot of appeal because of all the amenities/activities. It's really nice to live close to everything. What will probably move to reflect that change in demographics is retail. I would expect that housing and retail will be the real growth areas in and around downtown in the near future. Then, there are people who want more land or who like living farther away who will stay there or move there. It's nice to have both options, finally. We are likely going from a suburban/car/land centric population to one that is more reflective of older cities. That's a trend that is not only happening in Oklahoma City and again, it's nice that it gives multiple living/housing options for people with different interests.

You will start hearing more about commuter rail, now that the streetcar route is becoming firmed up. People who are pro-transit will start working to improve the bus system. A rising tide and all that.

Tinker, OU, FAA etc, etc, etc. Aren't moving downtown. Ever.

Maybe not, but with a properly designed transportation system those employees could live in urban neighborhoods. All 3 of the employment center you just listed are on the planned commuter rail system. They just need a streetcar to get from their downtown adjacent neighborhood to the transit hub. However, do you why OU, Tinker, and the FAA aren't located 3 miles south of Alex, OK? Answer, because no one lived out there when they were deciding to locate. They went where the people were.

Also, I might add - that if planner properly Tinker, OU, and the FAA could have all been at the center of their own urban neighborhoods. When Tanenbaum was building all the space for Boeing he could have used traditional neighborhood planning, he just chose to build giant parking lots instead.

Tinker, OU, FAA etc, etc, etc. Aren't moving downtown. Ever.

I think he's referring to new corporate presence.

Downtown is going to grow into OUHSC. That being said, there's time to connect it, as it hasn't happened yet and connectivity will be more important when we have commuter rail. There are a lot of people who work at the HSC who live in Edmond, Moore and Norman.

There are lots of things that aren't ever moving downtown. Usually downtowns have financial institutions, advertising agencies, businesses related to the legal system. Obviously in Oklahoma city, the petroleum industry has a concentration downtown and that may increase over time.

What usually happens in most cities is that there are pockets of commercial development in other places as well. And then there are all sorts of jobs that are not business-related, of course. In Oklahoma City, there will be a certain percentage of the population, especially the younger people and we empty nesters for whom downtown has a lot of appeal because of all the amenities/activities. It's really nice to live close to everything. What will probably move to reflect that change in demographics is retail. I would expect that housing and retail will be the real growth areas in and around downtown in the near future. Then, there are people who want more land or who like living farther away who will stay there or move there. It's nice to have both options, finally. We are likely going from a suburban/car/land centric population to one that is more reflective of older cities. That's a trend that is not only happening in Oklahoma City and again, it's nice that it gives multiple living/housing options for people with different interests.

You will start hearing more about commuter rail, now that the streetcar route is becoming firmed up. People who are pro-transit will start working to improve the bus system. A rising tide and all that.

Pretty much. 95% of the population, jobs and support in the OKC metro will still not be in the urban core. We may or may not get denser in the core and otherwise, likely we will though. Certainly downtown will. I think I made my point though (again) the broad brush it's-all-about-downtown myopia is exactly that.

That's still not an endorsement of Ed. Don't construe it that way.

I'm going on the assumption by living you include working. Most of OKC metro jobs aren't in the urban core. Only a small percent are. Most likely will remain that way for a very long time, if not as long as OKC exists.

I think you need to focus on what he said. The word 'dense' there is of great import. While on the whole, most jobs are not downtown, can you find anyplace else with anything close to the concentration of jobs and the diversity of those jobs? Add to that, such a high density of housing and entertainment venues? You can't. High density urban development is so much better for any number of reasons, from more efficient utilities to more effective public safety.

We're always going to have sprawl and suburbs, but we don't have to encourage it. I think developers are finding that with regard to a high density urban core, if they build it, we will come.

I think you need to focus on what he said. The word 'dense' there is of great import. While on the whole, most jobs are not downtown, can you find anyplace else with anything close to the concentration of jobs and the diversity of those jobs? Add to that, such a high density of housing and entertainment venues? You can't. High density urban development is so much better for any number of reasons, from more efficient utilities to more effective public safety.

We're always going to have sprawl and suburbs, but we don't have to encourage it. I think developers are finding that with regard to a high density urban core, if they build it, we will come.

You really should run for public office.

No need for you to re-interpret his position or my understanding of it, he's made his position pretty clear. He's all in on downtown to the exclusion of everything else. (Correct me if I'm wrong JTF)

That *everything else* in OKC metro is OKC. At least 95% of it. Same thing.

He's not the only one though!

No need for you to re-interpret his position or my understanding of it, he's made his position pretty clear. He's all in on downtown to the exclusion of everything else. (Correct me if I'm wrong JTF)

That everything else in OKC metro is OKC. At least 95% of it. Same thing.

I am more interested in tent-pole urbanism. Places like downtown Edmond, Norman, and Moore could certainly have an increase in housing, jobs, and entertainment options, but places like The Plaza District, Stockyard City, Paseo, 23rd St, Capitol Hill, Western Ave, Brittany, and the like could also be re-urbanized. Downtown OKC and the downtown adjacent neighborhoods just happen to be where the best density is taking place right now. Some one living in the walkable neighborhood of Capitol Hill should be able to board some kind of permanent mass transit system and go to the Plaza District. OKC should be made up of a collection of walkable neighborhoods all connected by mass transit, not a collection of single-use pods only accessible by automobile.

Lav Vegas uses a MonoRail system.

1. This could move many from Aiport to Meridian....to downtown.

2. We could place a N - S ... Edmond...OKC...Moore...Norman.

3. In future, we could place an outlying loop for all.

This would put us in the lead for todays needs and tomorrows growth. ... Also, this would put us ready for the next High Speed Rail position and be the Central US HUB for HSR.

???? who's with me?

A question I asked to Steve on his chat:

11:07 Comment From Gary T
Now that the streetcar has passed the city council, what is the next step? Are there any chances for Ed to delay it more?

11:08 Steve Lackmeyer:
Engineering must be done to ensure the route is feasible. This is also when we'll find out of the cost estimates are on target, what kind of system will be used, etc. Ed Shadid and Pete White have pledged to cooperate on making the streetcar a success.

11:09 Steve Lackmeyer:
I will note that with the route chosen, I don't see how Meg Salyer can be required to recuse herself again. So that kind of solidifies the council vote as it now stands.

I am more interested in tent-pole urbanism. Places like downtown Edmond, Norman, and Moore could certainly have an increase in housing, jobs, and entertainment options, but places like The Plaza District, Stockyard City, Paseo, 23rd St, Capitol Hill, Western Ave, Brittany, and the like could also be re-urbanized. Downtown OKC and the downtown adjacent neighborhoods just happen to be where the best density is taking place right now. Some one living in the walkable neighborhood of Capitol Hill should be able to board some kind of permanent mass transit system and go to the Plaza District. OKC should be made up of a collection of walkable neighborhoods all connected by mass transit, not a collection of single-use pods only accessible by automobile.


Is it just me...

If the Santa Fe Station were located in the Plaza District, wouldn't the streetcar have started there?

It'd be my best intention to tie together all forms of public transportation where these are. The Metro Bus Station is downtown, the future Intermodal Hub is downtown...therefore the streetcar is downtown.

Doesn't seem that hard to me. I'm agreeing with you JTF. I just don't get why it's so hard for people to not know the answer to "why isn't this happening in my neighborhood?".