Didn't the City Manager already say operation and maintenance could come out of the general fund?

Maybe? I don't recall. It wouldn't be a bad thing to create a dedicated transit funding source outside the general fund though.

Perhaps, but dedicated funds can be mixed bags. Once one is in place, a politico's mind sometimes (too easily) forgets originally X was funded in part by the general fund and the dedicated fund was added to go above and beyond that. Once funds start showing up in the dedicated pocket, those that were in the general fund seems to shrink away from X and get used elsewhere.

Maybe? I don't recall. It wouldn't be a bad thing to create a dedicated transit funding source outside the general fund though.

A separate dedicated funding source would be better (not withstanding Kevin's concern/comment) but I am wondering why the question "where is the O&M funding coming from" still being reported - or better yet, even asked. That question has already been answered. The only question now is, is there a better funding source.

Very refreshing and encouraging to see Cornett's comments on "we will get this done".

I'm sick and tired of study after study, discussion after discussion, analysis after analysis. I'm ready to see transit improve in OKC, and the streetcar project is the first step in a fundamental change in the way transit is viewed not only in Oklahoma City, but the entire state and region. I'm glad Cornett is leading the way now on transit issues.

“It’s easy to build things, but it takes more sophistication to operate them and maintain them,” he said in an earlier interview.

Well, Ed, then you get a team together and you figure out a way to fund O&M. That doesn't seem so hard does it??

There's O&M for every MAPS project, for every building the city owns, for every park, even the river. The streetcar is one that is actually capable of carrying some of its own weight - with advertising revenue, possible ticket sales, maybe even naming rights, parking fees, etc. In addition, we've looked at the absolute boom in downtown development we've gotten from MAPS projects, how population and sales tax revenues have increased. The streetcar has the potential to magnify that boom. That is before we consider any quality of life issues associated with it - which to me are the driving force behind MAPS projects. Yes, I wanted my city to be more attractive to companies that might move here and people who might move or visit, but I also wanted the MAPS projects to improve quality of life for the residents who are carrying much of the financial weight of their construction. I think they've succeeded beyond my wildest hopes, but the streetcar, the park, the river projects, sidewalks and trails have the potential to amplify that improvement in quality of life.

One of my friends who lives in Nichols Hills today told me her thirty-something daughter has chosen to buy a house in Heritage Hills (or Mesta Park, not sure) and is moving out of Nichols Hills. She acted a little shocked and I smiled and said, "That's what's happening. The younger people want to live closer to activities and restaurants." They would love it if they could drive less. Then she mentioned not only the Midtown boom, but said her daughter and her husband wanted to be closer to 23rd St. and the Plaza. That is a massive shift, and I hold MAPS responsible for the start, at least, of the landslide.

I'll say it: Edward H. Shadid is a petty, petty man masquerading as a heroic public figure.

He is the ultimate time waster.

He is a windbag.

He is also OKC's number one ENEMY OF PROGRESS.

He's come a long way.

So what is the 'operation and maintenance' cost of a police officer/firefighter?

I'll say it: Edward H. Shadid is a petty, petty man masquerading as a heroic public figure.

He is the ultimate time waster.

He is a windbag.

He is also OKC's number one ENEMY OF PROGRESS.

He's come a long way.

You stay classy, soonerguru.

So what is the 'operation and maintenance' cost of a police officer/firefighter?

Pension and Insurances?

Pension and Insurances?

...and weekly salary, sick pay, vacation pay, benefits, equipment, training etc. Acquiring the police officer is easy, keeping them from walking away without receiving an income is more sophisticated.

Well folks, whether we move forward with what the voters voted on all comes down to Tuesday morning.

Hopefully see some of you there at City Council Chamber (200 N Walker) between 9:30 and 11:30 as we debate and vote on the streetcar route to go forth into formal engineering

In the meantime, here's a great peice from NPR- "Can Mass Transit Solve City Sprawl." /playlist/index.html (http://sciencefriday.com/playlist/#play/segment/9229)

It'd be cool if I could park somewhere for free and then catch a free ride down to the City Council Chamber!

TODAY'S THE BIG DAY! Today we will learn who supports MAPS, the streetcar, the will of the citizens, and who doesn't. I fully expect Ed Shadid to vote against the streetcar, and I'm hearing that Pete White just can't bring himself to support the streetcar for specious reasons. I'm also told that the new councilman, Greiner, has some cards up his sleeve to play. Should be interesting.

As for Pete White, he VOTED TO PUT THE STREETCAR IN MAPS, and VOTED FOR THE BINDING RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE STREETCAR AS A MAPS PROJECT, but now he's suddenly against it. Truly, he "voted for it before he voted against it."

Watch out, OKC. You will soon know a lot more about your council members and whether or not they support the will of the citizens.

I implore you to make your voice heard and attend the council meeting at 8:30 today to show your support of the streetcar.

If you cannot make it, please remember how these council members vote on the streetcar and listen to the reasons they give to support or vote against it. If they vote against, please pay attention for information that will be forthcoming on the truthfulness of their appeals. THEY WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR PUBLIC STATEMENTS.

Please pay attention and hold each and every council member accountable for their votes. The people will be watching them and will make a permanent record of their decisions. This is a historic moment for OKC. This is the beginning of major change in our transit system and how our citizens view transit.

Remember this day and how important it is to our city's future. Don't let politicians steal our transit future for cynical reasons. WE WILL BE WATCHING. WE WILL RECORD HOW THEY VOTE. WE WILL BROADCAST WHAT THEY SAY IN PUBLIC PROCEEDINGS.

Don't let guileless, selfish politicians try to take away your vote. You voted for MAPS III. You voted for a downtown streetcar. IT WILL HAPPEN. Don't let politicians like Shadid, Pete White, and Greiner try to take your vote away. Hold them accountable.

(Shadid is working behind the scenes, doing whatever he can to kill the streetcar. The truth will come out once the vote is recorded. Ed Shadid will have to answer for his own actions.)

Anyone who votes against the streetcar will have to face the citizens for not upholding the will of voters in MAPS III. They WILL be held accountable!

Ed Shadid has said the streetcar is "trickle down transit." The truth is the streetcar was the most grassroots piece of MAPS. It was the most publicly transparent initiative. The fact is that the streetcar was not only one of the most popular pieces of MAPS III, it played a large role in the passage of MAPS. The fact that he did not vote in the MAPS election, participate in the MAPS planning, or participate in the initial streetcar meetings gives him no reason to derail this citizen-driven effort.

We will soon see who supports the will of the people and who doesn't.

TODAY'S THE BIG DAY! Today we will learn who supports MAPS, the streetcar, the will of the citizens, and who doesn't. I fully expect Ed Shadid to vote against the streetcar, and I'm hearing that Pete White just can't bring himself to support the streetcar for specious reasons. I'm also told that the new councilman, Greiner, has some cards up his sleeve to play. Should be interesting.

As for Pete White, he VOTED TO PUT THE STREETCAR IN MAPS, and VOTED FOR THE BINDING RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE STREETCAR AS A MAPS PROJECT, but now he's suddenly against it. Truly, he "voted for it before he voted against it."

Watch out, OKC. You will soon know a lot more about your council members and whether or not they support the will of the citizens.

I implore you to make your voice heard and attend the council meeting at 8:30 today to show your support of the streetcar.

If you cannot make it, please remember how these council members vote on the streetcar and listen to the reasons they give to support or vote against it. If they vote against, please pay attention for information that will be forthcoming on the truthfulness of their appeals. THEY WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR PUBLIC STATEMENTS.

Please pay attention and hold each and every council member accountable for their votes. The people will be watching them and will make a permanent record of their decisions. This is a historic moment for OKC. This is the beginning of major change in our transit system and how our citizens view transit.

Remember this day and how important it is to our city's future. Don't let politicians steal our transit future for cynical reasons. WE WILL BE WATCHING. WE WILL RECORD HOW THEY VOTE. WE WILL BROADCAST WHAT THEY SAY IN PUBLIC PROCEEDINGS.

Don't let guileless, selfish politicians try to take away your vote. You voted for MAPS III. You voted for a downtown streetcar. IT WILL HAPPEN. Don't let politicians like Shadid, Pete White, and Greiner try to take your vote away. Hold them accountable.

(Shadid is working behind the scenes, doing whatever he can to kill the streetcar. The truth will come out once the vote is recorded. Ed Shadid will have to answer for his own actions.)

Anyone who votes against the streetcar will have to face the citizens for not upholding the will of voters in MAPS III. They WILL be held accountable!

Ed Shadid has said the streetcar is "trickle down transit." The truth is the streetcar was the most grassroots piece of MAPS. It was the most publicly transparent initiative. The fact is that the streetcar was not only one of the most popular pieces of MAPS III, it played a large role in the passage of MAPS. The fact that he did not vote in the MAPS election, participate in the MAPS planning, or participate in the initial streetcar meetings gives him no reason to derail this citizen-driven effort.

We will soon see who supports the will of the people and who doesn't.

One would hope that Greiner, being only recently elected, would choose to support the will of the voters, and only strive to make sure that the streetcar is planned and constructed well.

The opposition is organized and out today!

The opposition is organized and out today!

I hope the supporters are as well?

The supporters are likely working. If you're retired, you have all the time in the world. If anyone has time to stop in,it would be appreciated.

https://twitter.com/stevelackmeyer/status/382517035327950849


Salyer is recusing herself on vote saying she has been a property owner along Broadway for 25 yrs.

I hope that wasn't a vote we were counting on to pass this thing.

https://twitter.com/stevelackmeyer/status/382517035327950849



I hope that wasn't a vote we were counting on to pass this thing.

That can't be good. Why on earth would she pull herself out just because she's a business owner along the route? I was under the impression she was for streetcar - very disappointing.

"my understanding is that @EdShadid pushed for Salyer to recuse herself."

Shadid is at it again. This is what Steve tweeted moments ago as to why "pro streetcar" councilwoman Salyer recused her vote. I'm sorry, but Shadid is an absolute snake.

Where ccan I get a "I support the streetcar" sticker?! :-)

Salyer recuses and 2-3 known aginner votes on a 9 member panel.

Interesting development .... or perhaps lack thereof.

FWIW, she is not wrong to recuse, but it does possibly make for a potentially ugly morning for the rail folks.

4494

This!

Guys, the streetcar opposition is very organized at the meeting and have come out guns blazing (weak arguments from folks as far away as Tuttle, but at least they're unified and galvanized). I hate to say, but there's no way the route, or streetcar for that matter, is going to pass the council. An absolute shame and a HUGE setback for our city.

Is it a not this route argument or an OKC don't need a streetcar period argument that's being advanced?



on edit: subbed OKC for we. Not like I live there or get a vote.

I would like to see this meeting scheduled after 5:00pm, then we can get a more accurate representation of both sides of the issue. It's unfortunate the issue is being argued against by the same mentality that has caused the "brain drain" that plagued OKC for decades!

Is it a not this route argument or an OKC don't need a streetcar period argument that's being advanced?



on edit: subbed OKC for we. Not like I live there or get a vote.

Not this route.

Many advocating NE/OUHSC

Not this route.

Many advocating NE/OUHSC

Can that not be pushed for phase II? I would like to know how many people Phase I benefits with the current set up. If they were to take out the Midtown connection, what would the difference be? The buses will still go to that area and connect to the bus station, which will link to the streetcar. What are we arguing about here?

What the hell is Steve tweeting about now instead of live tweeting the event as he was?

So if someone owning land along a streetcar route can't vote for a route they didn't choose how does any council member vote for anything the city does? By that logic shouldn't all council members have to live and work outside OKC? Shadid owns a home a near a bus route, should recuse himself from any bus related votes?

Curious, what was the logic Shadid used in his argument, that Slayer might benefit from the streetcar route? Wouldn't that defeat his argument that the streetcar doesn't generate commerce? To hear it from the anti-transit people Meg would only be digging her own financial grave is she voted to put the streetcar near her property.

Guys, the streetcar opposition is very organized at the meeting and have come out guns blazing (weak arguments from folks as far away as Tuttle, but at least they're unified and galvanized). I hate to say, but there's no way the route, or streetcar for that matter, is going to pass the council. An absolute shame and a HUGE setback for our city.

Geez, a bit dramatic to already declare the vote in trouble. You are right though, every person I've seen talk (I'm livestreaming it) is giving weak arguments (it will make more traffic! Kid's feet will get caught in the track! Why isn't it going through my neighborhood!?!). Just mostly old folks throwing a tantrum. Now that the opposition has largely spoken, I am actually less worried now than I was beforehand.

And to everyone there trying to give some reasoning to this madness, I say bless you. I would be there if I wasn't sitting here pouring over these leases (yay work!). I tend to agree with the argument that such an important vote should be held at a more convenient time in the future.

Yes, I was going to attend, but things didn't work out.

Yeah, the antis always make a better showing.

It passes! 5-3.

For: Cornett (M), McAtee (3), Greenwell (5), Pettis (7), Ryan (8)

Against: Greiner (1), Shadid (2), White (4),

W00t!!!!

Mick Cornett could be heard sighing after the vote, laughing then stating, "That's a relief..."

It passes! 5-3.

I stand corrected! Great, great news!

One small step for city council, one giant leap for Oklahoma City!

I need a drink.

Just my opinion, but if I were on the horseshoe, anyone showing up to argue 'not this route' just would not get many credibility points from me. the whole purpose of having a citizen committee was to hash out various possible routes, make a decision and then seek final blessing. Pitching a fit over route 1 or route 4,312 should be at the committee level. Otherwise, why bother having citizens give so much time and energy into the selection process.

Pete White actually flicked the green light on first

:congrats:

Thank goodness.

Pete White said there 21 people who spoke about the streetcar. 11 were for it, 10 were against it. Of the 11, 8 either were on the committee or owned property adjacent to the zeta plan.

Well, maybe if there was a discussion with the council not on a Tuesday at 10am, you would get a lot more proponents.

If I had ever been to a city council meeting before, I'd probably have spoken up.

Effective leadership in our cities form of government is all about effective consensus building. Cornett again shows his ability to get things done while despite his best efforts, Shadid seems to lack this ability...

Props to my Councilman, David Greenwell... I have had numerous discussions with him and he is steadfast in the council delivering on Maps 3 as closely as possible to what the citizens were expecting when they voted...

Before the meeting I saw a public school bus drop off streetcar opponents? Any one have any idea what that was about or see it too? No problem with opposing point of views but why the city school bus?

I especially thank John Pettis and David Greenwell for whom it was clearly not an easy decision.

This will probably get skipped over due to the excitement, but what is the next step in this process?

Great! I watched some of the stream - I gained a tremendous amount of respect for McAtee. He gave the most even handed, long view comments we could hope a councilmember to make.

I'm little perplexed on why some still be debating IF the street care should be built. That was decided years ago.

I especially thank John Pettis and David Greenwell for whom it was clearly not an easy decision.

Congrats to everyone involved. I would have voted yes, but with the same questions and reservations as Pettis and Greenwell. I hope we can at least appreciate the competing values and the common goal of creating a transit system that works for everyone in Oklahoma City.

I have plenty to blog about later. YOU HAVE NO IDEA...

Right now, having a drink.

So what was Greiner's angle? I'd like to know so I can take it up with him on why I feel he's a disappointment early in his term as my councilman.

Thanks to our own Urban Pioneer and betts for helping to get this project over a massive hump.

Let's hope this can now quickly move forward.

So what was Greiner's angle? I'd like to know so I can take it up with him on why I feel he's a disappointment early in his term as my councilman.

He essentially said "I'm opposed to it because I don't think it is a good idea."

He looked like a deer in the headlights today and it would have been better had he followed Pettis' lead and refrained from speaking. Really hope he gets it together because I'd take any other councilman with a seat 18 times out of 10 based on what I saw from him today. You simply can't be misinformed.

I have plenty to blog about later. YOU HAVE NO IDEA...

Right now, having a drink.

Not gonna lie...that got uncomfortable for a second there.

I hope that things progress for all parties involved in a way that is constructive and reparative from here forward.

So what was Greiner's angle? I'd like to know so I can take it up with him on why I feel he's a disappointment early in his term as my councilman.

It seems as if a bit of Tea Party was showing...