It seems as if a bit of Tea Party was showing...

As a registered Republican and non-idiot conservative, this crap gets old.

It seems as if a bit of Tea Party was showing...

Yeah... he essentially said that in 20 years we're going to think this was a stupid idea and regret it. Like I said before, I know he was elected after-the-fact, but voting no now feels very ethically wrong, since it's what the voters originally preferred.

this crap gets old.

What crap?

This will probably get skipped over due to the excitement, but what is the next step in this process?

That's my question as well. How soon until we see some actual construction?

Also, how soon until we have enough of a system in place that we'll no longer get failed for federal funds on technicalities?

As a registered Republican and non-idiot conservative, this crap gets old.Whose crap? Mine or James Greiner's?

The opposition's dialogue went pretty far afield of the matter at hand, which was to approve or dissaprove the recommended route, and that includes Greiner's. Made them look pretty ignorant in my opinion. I'm no Shadid fan, but at least he was cogent and asked questions and made commentary that could reasonably be construed as vetting the process that arrived at the recommended route. Greiner couldn't even coherently state his opposition to the entirety of the streetcar, much less make relevant critique or commentary on the route presented. I fear he may turn out to be a constant roadblock to our civic progress.

sorry, i knew i should have clarified. Greiner's (and all other extreme Tea Party folks' crap who can't see past 5 minutes ahead in time) is whose I was referring to

Great! I watched some of the stream - I gained a tremendous amount of respect for McAtee. He gave the most even handed, long view comments we could hope a councilmember to make.

Really like Larry McAtee and proud he is my councilman.

sorry, i knew i should have clarified. Greiner's (and all other extreme Tea Party folks' crap who can't see past 5 minutes ahead in time) is whose I was referring to

I thought it hilarious and fitting that Greiner said he's "not interested in details." Why become a city councilman if you're not interested in details? Very unimpressive.

We can all be upset at certain councilmen or women but to me it is more a reflection of apathy. You get these kinds of people on the horse shoe when people don't get engaged and don't vote in these elections.

Going to be as nice as I can with this...Greiner is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Nobody is asking you to be a MENSA member when running for council, but you need some level of intelligence to do your job. If you want to see what I'm talking about, watch the latest "From City Hall" show on cityofokc's youtube channel in which he hosted. The guy cannot even put sentences together.

I would like to thank the many supporters online and the many people who came out today!

This is a great day for our city!

I particularly want to thank Councilman John A. Pettis Jr. of Ward 7 for sticking with us and holding his ground against extraordinary pressure from all directions.

For our Mayor Cornett and his leadership, Council members Patrick Ryan, David Greenwell, Larry McAtee.

We know that we had Councilwoman Salyer's support and completely appreciate the reasons for her recusing from the vote.

THIS IS A POINT OF DEMARCATION FOR THE STREETCAR PROJECT. As long as we have the same current Council member support, Meg's added vote ensures that this project will proceed into preliminary engineering and bid letting.

That is why the Mayoral election and changes in council seats can become critical in the future.

I will post more later. Along with the awesomeness of moving forward, there was plenty of ugliness too. The "anti-streetcar" crowd threw absolutely everything they could possibly come up with against this project. I will detail out some of that later.


In the mean time, I plan on resting AND CELEBRATING!

Many thanks again for your support for our OKC streetcar! Jeff Bezdek

I thought it hilarious and fitting that Greiner said he's "not interested in details." Why become a city councilman if you're not interested in details? Very unimpressive.

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We can all be upset at certain councilmen or women but to me it is more a reflection of apathy. You get these kinds of people on the horse shoe when people don't get engaged and don't vote in these elections.

Or you get them when one distinct interest group wants to get a candidate on council. Not sure what good Greiner will do for them, however.

The 2 things that I thought were valid criticisms and need to be addressed at some point (those processes have already begun, I believe)

1. Leveraging the route against developers and business owners to agree to some sort of financing, probably a BID. I'm sure it will be okay, but that genuinely should have been done already and absolutely needs to be done in future expansion.

2. The cost concern. The lady from South OKC who voiced concerns on this was not really replied to. I don't know enough about everything to know if it's a legitimate concern, but I get the sense that no one is as sure as we probably should be this far along in the process.

---------

Outside of that, I would hope that proponents of the Zeta route will remember in future discussions to argue the Zeta route *as the hub* (effectively) to a hub-and-spoke system.

In fact, this is one of the major issues with OKC's bus system: A set point from which all routes originate and terminate is wildly inefficient due to back tracking. Route overlap is an important part of a system that is serving large areas. It's what makes the Zeta route work so well for future expansion. The overlap happens at route mid-points so that you can transfer effectively from one place to another.

I think a possible future lightrail extension should be one which links Oklahoma City to Norman, alleviating congestion on I-35. They could even build the lightrail in between opposite lanes of highway traffic of I-35...I have seen this design already in place in some major cities.

A great day for OKC! Streetcar route approved! (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=pi4hp5cab&v=0017tAQmPa9WeZ1qcfO9_jInXi60y1BbajtyXgBBfZ6yOr-LlSBtkCbvpK7l_UjlWk5CUqXVqBwj5EjrPp2RmByH952pKBOnc g2B8jMTeMnS5jNYTtHkQdM6xMZKfpNpscQ_2J2VNlMWHQaJ4eJ 7vtZ37RI6m5VkCQugzX4YAhpyaFf4-ekfNh-H7Dj5xh0JELZgiR45enCdqgoYuVjim2Z6TagYgMDzVOIbsUb3V Tv5BsPZOlbpuw2k3SWN6qAefqP1X3LvPW1XLju3UcBqGw_kIIE S9BwEpdQb6E6EQ-SGDd242hwQOLNfXfZa9rXE_DTAE93Vq4LxDO5SaXNVYTrHTIav ztC0g2TN2VGNQMi1EBVIPOW5Vkh9DFArzPtsiAqh0P5JKw7_3I GG7EeXUqrVa6_pvEwxxarMC0mkHganhnTkoPEXZuA8tcPKViUP 1yQgCXfAnwMZls%3D&id=preview)

I think a possible future lightrail extension should be one which links Oklahoma City to Norman, alleviating congestion on I-35. They could even build the lightrail in between opposite lanes of highway traffic of I-35...I have seen this design already in place in some major cities.

As previously discussed in this thread, light rail is far too expensive for expanding outward from the city center. The next step will be commuter rail to both Edmond & Norman, as the first spokes.

Congrats to everyone involved. I would have voted yes, but with the same questions and reservations as Pettis and Greenwell. I hope we can at least appreciate the competing values and the common goal of creating a transit system that works for everyone in Oklahoma City.

Pettis didn't express any reservations or ask any questions, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

I appreciated the artist's conception video included in the NewsOK.com story. However, would a map of the route be located somewhere on the 203 pages of this thread? Would someone be kind enough to direct me to it? Thanks in advance.

I appreciated the artist's conception video included in the NewsOK.com story. However, would a map of the route be located somewhere on the 203 pages of this thread? Would someone be kind enough to direct me to it? Thanks in advance.

click on the link in post 5062

I find myself struggling to be on the side of the Tea Partiers when it comes to local government. In regards to a smaller federal government, I tend to agree with many of their ideas. However, when they apply the same ideas to the level of government that impacts my life this most, being the municipal government, I find their attempts to be quite flawed; particularly when it comes to MAPs. It is one thing to oppose the federal government from pushing legislation on the citizens in which they never had little or no voice in the process, however when the local constituency votes, it’s the responsibility of the elected representatives to uphold the will of the people. I do agree that the majority is not always right, ie civil rights, but the will of the people should be the determining factor, except in cases of inequality.

The citizens of Ward 1 were not well represented today. Mr. Griner should have recused his vote as well, citing “too uninformed” about either the issue or how his constituency feels regarding the issue.

I am glad this passed and I look forward to investing a great deal of time volunteering for Mayor Cornett’s re-election campaign!

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel the need to introduce themselves to Pete White. “Councilman White, I do not own property along the proposed route nor did I serve on the committee, and I absolutely support the streetcar. It is a pleasure to meet you.”

I wonder about the folks that live in Tuttle that are against a project like this, that are skilled mechanics, that might be qualified to maintenance these vehicles and be paid well for it. Did they think it that far through? More job creating y'all! Somebody has to drive these things even though they're on a fixed route. How many jobs would this service provide on start-up? 40-50?

I wonder why people from Tuttle are coming to a City of Oklahoma City council meeting to bitch about not getting a piece of the MAPS pie... I wanted to throw a book at every non-resident that got up and spoke out against the streetcar/route. How absurd.

I find myself struggling to be on the side of the Tea Partiers when it comes to local government. In regards to a smaller federal government, I tend to agree with many of their ideas. However, when they apply the same ideas to the level of government that impacts my life this most, being the municipal government, I find their attempts to be quite flawed; particularly when it comes to MAPs. It is one thing to oppose the federal government from pushing legislation on the citizens in which they never had little or no voice in the process, however when the local constituency votes, it’s the responsibility of the elected representatives to uphold the will of the people. I do agree that the majority is not always right, ie civil rights, but the will of the people should be the determining factor, except in cases of inequality.

I agree wholeheartedly. I am very tea-party-ish on a federal level, but very non-tea-party-ish on a local level.

I agree wholeheartedly. I am very tea-party-ish on a federal level, but very non-tea-party-ish on a local level.

Same here, I don't mind paying extra taxes when I can easily see results that benefit my community.

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel the need to introduce themselves to Pete White. “Councilman White, I do not own property along the proposed route nor did I serve on the committee, and I absolutely support the streetcar. It is a pleasure to meet you.”

Here is what I sent to him:

"I heard your comment about knowing only two people who were for the streetcar that were neither on the committee nor had property adjacent to the selected streetcar route.

I am not located in your ward. I live at NW 21st and May, so I am in Meg’s ward. I am not on the committee and I do not own property near the selected streetcar route.

So, there you go. Now you know three people who are for the streetcar!

I hope you get a lot more of these emails from the people of OKC who support what we consider a great start to a much needed reliable transit system in OKC.

Have a great day!"

Pete knows better ... this is just an old politico (someone I like and respect) pulling a well-worn card....

Pettis didn't express any reservations or ask any questions, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

My apologies, I made a few assumptions there. I saw leaders from the NE side ask about route options to spark development in Ward 7. I thought that may have complicated Pettis' vote.

My apologies, I made a few assumptions there. I saw leaders from the NE side ask about route options to spark development in Ward 7. I thought that may have complicated Pettis' vote.

Yes, and you may want to investigate who got them there and how they arrived. Very interesting. Someone I spoke to saw many of them coming out of an OKC Public Schools bus. Apparently they were asking people on the street if they were associated with a particular councilman's mayoral campaign.

Yes, and you may want to investigate who got them there and how they arrived. Very interesting. Someone I spoke to saw many of them coming out of an OKC Public Schools bus. Apparently they were asking people on the street if they were associated with a particular councilman's mayoral campaign.

I took pictures of it and them. They thought I was with the Shadid campaign. They actually thought I was and asked me as such while I was waiting on the curb for our print materials to be dropped off.

Pete White can say all he wants. A good chunk of the angry people in that room were bused in on OKC Public Schools bus #2516.

Urban Pioneer breaking it down for the Council:

https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1234127_10201887540488464_1084787834_n.jpg

I took pictures of it and them. They thought I was with the Shadid campaign. They actually thought I was and asked me as such while I was waiting on the curb for our print materials to be dropped off.

Pete White can say all he wants. A good chunk of the angry people in that room were bused in on OKC Public Schools bus #2516.

Is this legal?

Is this legal?

I would hope so.

Is this legal?

It may be legal - barely, but if my hunch is correct, it is pretty slimy. It is probably something that is done occasionally but I think the way those people were probably "mobilized" is not exactly fitting with the former collegial nature of the council.

I got the feeling that many of those "angry people" weren't sure exactly what they were angry about. I think if they would objectively look at the information that is readily available about the streetcar and the process that brought us to this point, they would retract some of their statements.

Nick Singer was hovering by the door on his cellphone before they arrived. How is he associated with Ed's campaign? He didn't speak against or in favor of the streetcar so I wonder if he has minion status these days.

Some of them thought I was Nick "with Ed's campaign". I had given my streetcar sticker to someone and I guess the people didn't know who I was.

Let me tell you, I am going home tonight to rest. But there is story after story of dirty business associated with this vote today. "Big city" Mayoral politics is finally here.

If anyone thinks for a second Ed isn't against MAPS 3 and the streetcar, today was your answer.

Don't let guileless, selfish politicians try to take away your vote. You voted for MAPS III. You voted for a downtown streetcar. IT WILL HAPPEN. Don't let politicians like Shadid, Pete White, and Greiner try to take your vote away. Hold them accountable.


Guile is a bad thing. Guileless politicians means that they are not sneaky or devious.

The Health Sciences Center option touted was just a delaying tactic to buy time. A lot of people were used to help advance that concept, but Ed wasn't seriously interested in it. That route is neither great transit for the citizens of NE Oklahoma City, nor is there much economic development that can occur there. HSC holds most of the land and a few not so savory developers have much of the remainder of the open land. Instant gentrification is not what the JFK neighborhood needs. We'll see how supportive he is of spending money for development of the Adventure Line.

I took pictures of it and them. They thought I was with the Shadid campaign. They actually thought I was and asked me as such while I was waiting on the curb for our print materials to be dropped off.

Pete White can say all he wants. A good chunk of the angry people in that room were bused in on OKC Public Schools bus #2516.

I heard from a good source that just a week ago those people weren't angry at all. In fact, they weren't even interested in the streetcar. That was until Shadid started meeting with the ministers of prominent churches in Ward 7 and trying to stir them up with his rhetoric. Clearly, his campaign recruited some of those people to come to the Council meeting and speak in opposition of the route using talking points prepared by Ed. And apparently, his campaign helped organize the school bus trip. I've never seen anything quite like it.

Pete White actually flicked the green light on first

I voted for it.
I voted against it.

Whichever one he spouts off, he semi-sorta will be accurate.

The HSC as the initial phase would also have been catastrophic to the long-term capabilities of this line. It would require either obscene amounts of tracks/money or virtually a whole new system once it was decided that we needed to head back to any of the other 3 quadrants.

The use of a school bus, provided the school district was compensated, causes me no ill feelings.
Opposing a project that the people never truly voted on, though a council of different composition did, doesn't bother me much either. After all, the concept and effort used to attempt to thwart the streetcar could be employed by others on some other project folks might feel is questionable.

Best wishes to the streetcar progress. I look forward to saving a few steps on it someday when i am in town.

The use of a school bus, provided the school district was compensated, causes me no ill feelings.
Opposing a project that the people never truly voted on, though a council of different composition did, doesn't bother me much either. After all, the concept and effort used to attempt to thwart the streetcar could be employed by others on some other project folks might feel is questionable.

Best wishes to the streetcar progress. I look forward to saving a few steps on it someday when i am in town.

Agreed.

Absolutely nothing wrong with bringing in constituents to voice their opinion, even on a public bus...In fact, that ought to be encouraged really.

The only problem would be if Councilman Shadid (or anyone else for that matter) paid people to come say certain things. I don't genuinely sense that that was the case, only that these people were mobilized through the political process.

But there is story after story of dirty business associated with this vote today. "Big city" Mayoral politics is finally here.

So UP, will these stories see the light of day?

Urban Pioneer breaking it down for the Council:

https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1234127_10201887540488464_1084787834_n.jpg

You got some rockin' hair there, man.

So UP, will these stories see the light of day?

Sure. I want to be careful on what I say and how I say it. There were so many things that happened behind the scenes with Ed.

A I would imagine.

I would be sad and disappointed if unethical tactics were used today. But from what I've seen and heard on the surface level, there is nothing wrong with organizing an opposition to show up at City Hall. I guess it depends on which side you're on.

I would be sad and disappointed if unethical tactics were used today. But from what I've seen and heard on the surface level, there is nothing wrong with organizing an opposition to show up at City Hall. I guess it depends on which side you're on.

krisb my friend, i'm having a hard time reasoning why you can't see through the E.S. spew ? You communicate well on this board, i'm puzzled...?

I would be sad and disappointed if unethical tactics were used today. But from what I've seen and heard on the surface level, there is nothing wrong with organizing an opposition to show up at City Hall. I guess it depends on which side you're on.

Unethical tactics were definitely used today. Gutter ball politics at its finest. Shameful.

krisb my friend, i'm having a hard time reasoning why you can't see through the E.S. spew ? You communicate well on this board, i'm puzzled...?

Call me foolish, but most of the "spew" seems like thoughtful questioning of the status quo. Can we expect a politician to not be political? Like I said, if I saw proof of unethical tactics I would be disappointed.

Call me foolish, but most of the "spew" seems like thoughtful questioning of the status quo. Can we expect a politician to not be political? Like I said, if I saw proof of unethical tactics I would be disappointed.

The first bad 'spew' from Ed came with the attack adds in the Oklahoman.....nothing to do with the status quo. If Ed was behind the tactics of today, which wouldn't surprise me, he'll be referred as 'Shady'.

The biggest problem I have with him, other than you can't trust him, is that he's against MAPS, which was voted for by the people.

A streetcar in OKC is the exact opposite of the status quo. It is clear some people are going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.

A I would imagine.

I can't tell whether your being sincere or not. Obviously, I don't have to post here at all. Either way, I'm glad today is over.

A streetcar in OKC is the exact opposite of the status quo. It is clear some people are going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.

I still kind of find it hard to believe that we're going to have a streetcar here. It's something I would expect from a much, well, bigger and more progressive city. This is very exciting. Congratulations to everyone who got this project where it is today.

I especially thank John Pettis and David Greenwell for whom it was clearly not an easy decision.

We should remember this kind of maturity before we are too rash to write them off, especially Greenwell.

I still kind of find it hard to believe that we're going to have a streetcar here. It's something I would expect from a much, well, bigger and more progressive city. This is very exciting. Congratulations to everyone who got this project where it is today.

You mean the progressive downtown Oklahoma City used to be before the automobile, interstates, suburban sprawl and the Pei Plan? History is repeating itself. Hopefully this time we don't pull the tracks out and cover them up.

We should remember this kind of maturity before we are too rash to write them off, especially Greenwell.

I never wrote them off. Pettis and Greenwell both appear to be solid councilmen. I was particularly impressed with Pettis today.

Do people have any opinions about this animation? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L5A_byGkhuM

Only reason I ask is because they (Skyline Ink / Jacobs) rushed to hobble together some snippets for today's council meeting.

While I'm thrilled it was available, I think aspects of it could have been better and therefore plan to give them some feedback at tomorrow's Subcommittee meeting.

I'll gladly pass along your perspectives.