Streetcar tracks on future Boulevard:


http://i.imgur.com/SZyrWrj.jpg

Wait a minute, I thought UP stated a bunch of nonsense about ODOT and the Streetcar.

Upon review, he did:

"The city is not permitted to install permanent streetcar tracks until they formal hand off the project to the city. We will be saw cutting and tearing out brand new concrete instead of integrating the project while concrete is being poured. 3. The city is not allowed to build in the Right-Of-Way that is not used by ODOT until the project is handed off. The Right-of-Way is excessively large due to the former I-40. We can't touch it. 4. The city will not be able to do landscaping, pedestrian amenities, transit stops, etc until the project is formally handed off". SMH.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=39688&page=17&p=976327#post976327

> 12-09-2016

Given that that was posted eight months ago, the situation has probably changed since then. Negotiations happen.

What is holding up the Boulevard?

masterful engineering for both people and cars I hope

Thanks for the pictures of the first two platform stops.
Do we have any renderings of what they will look like when 100% completed?
The design of the platform stops in Kansas City look really cool. Functional and very inviting.

..Do we have any renderings of what they will look like when 100% completed?...

14041

Huh. That's weird. It shrunk the image. I don't understand why I always have so much trouble with image uploads on this site. That pic is not hosted anywhere so it's the best I can do.

They are nearly finished in those photos. Add a kiosk and signage. A railing to the rear. A small sheltered area and some benches.

I have been a common critic of the [IMO] unimaginative stops and was pushing for the extra funds to go into stop improvement, rather than an additional streetcar. I guess we can always improve the stops later down the rail.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19388765_1949709645270160_786915613393563975_o.jpg ?oh=3b10a8e3d0873e22951c09a01dc129bd&oe=59FE2E33

> 12-09-2016

Given that that was posted eight months ago, the situation has probably changed since then. Negotiations happen.
UP's original post was more or less a direct quote from okc public works in a city meeting open to the public.

Clearly things changed just as David said

Ooooo, I like that we're getting kiosks. Now they just need to be wi-fi hotspots too.

UP's original post was more or less a direct quote from okc public works in a city meeting open to the public.

Clearly things changed just as David said

Yes, things had changed. Sometime between the public meeting over 4 years ago, which was quoted, and when UP went on his nonsensical rant about "project hand off", "cutting new concrete", blah, blah, blah last December.

Yes, things had changed. Sometime between the public meeting over 4 years ago, which was quoted, and when UP went on his nonsensical rant about "project hand off", "cutting new concrete", blah, blah, blah last December.

You must work for ODOT.

Yes, things had changed. Sometime between the public meeting over 4 years ago, which was quoted, and when UP went on his nonsensical rant about "project hand off", "cutting new concrete", blah, blah, blah last December.

Citation needed.

Citation needed.
David, you're probably right. In the 39 days from the time UP posted his diatribe and when construction started on the streetcar, okc probably amended the construction plans and contract, secured all of the right of way agreements, and got the green light to lay track on the boulevard. It couldn't have happened in the 4 years previous to his rant.

> 12-09-2016

Given that that was posted eight months ago, the situation has probably changed since then. Negotiations happen.

This is a high profile project. People with power obviously said it would be ridiculous that the streetcar be delayed because of bureaucracy and the delay of the boulevard.

Wait a minute, I thought UP stated a bunch of nonsense about ODOT and the Streetcar.

Upon review, he did:

"The city is not permitted to install permanent streetcar tracks until they formal hand off the project to the city. We will be saw cutting and tearing out brand new concrete instead of integrating the project while concrete is being poured. 3. The city is not allowed to build in the Right-Of-Way that is not used by ODOT until the project is handed off. The Right-of-Way is excessively large due to the former I-40. We can't touch it. 4. The city will not be able to do landscaping, pedestrian amenities, transit stops, etc until the project is formally handed off". SMH.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=39688&page=17&p=976327#post976327

Actually, that is precisely what we were told in the subcommittee, so I don't think UP was out of line. It would have been ridiculous and a waste of money to tear up the boulevard to lay track that could be laid previously, which is what we discussed in committee. Clearly someone saw the wisdom of our argument.

David, you're probably right. In the 39 days from the time UP posted his diatribe and when construction started on the streetcar, okc probably amended the construction plans and contract, secured all of the right of way agreements, and got the green light to lay track on the boulevard. It couldn't have happened in the 4 years previous to his rant.

Citation still needed. Can you post proof that UP was wrong as of when he posted that or not?

Thanks for backing me up folks. Those comments were made in an official public meeting by City Staff and backed up by our consultants.

If my comments about the OKC Boulevard reads like a diatribe and offend ODOT supporters, I am not sorry. You can take it up with the City for misinforming their Oversight Committee. Or... maybe with some self-reflection, ODOT could grace us with clear explanations as to what they are doing and when. Block by block. How is it affecting the City? How is it integrated with planned MAPS projects? Yes we are trying to save tax money by integrating and here is how. Clear, concise, simple explanations. Not pages and pages of environmental and program documents buried on their website.

I will never forget two monumental comments made at the very first streetcar meeting with regards to the OKC Boulevard by ODOT-

1. You mean the streetcar is going to run on rails!?
2. No, this project can't be slowed or stopped. It is going out to bid in December.

I can't remember how many years ago this was, but let's just say that the middle section is just now going out (or about to go out) to bid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RftqoygXXHk

A very interesting video, makes some very good points!

It is interesting that the OKC Streetcar is not gaining a lot of national media traffic yet. Wait 'til everyone is circling up to judge the performance of the OKC Streetcar and its purpose..

Good video though, I do believe the primary purpose this was proposed was to create a boom in economic development and change the identity of OKC. A secondary purpose centers around the needs of the new CC and the arena and having an effective people mover into Bricktown and other tax dollar hotbeds.

UP, is there conversation that genuinely addresses this as a means of transportation to make citizens daily lives easier? Do you feel a future connection to capitol hill and other neighborhoods that would benefit is a real possibility at this point?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RftqoygXXHk

A very interesting video, makes some very good points!

The main point being that most streetcars are about economic development, not necessarily public transportation.

And that is certainly the case in OKC and you've seen several developers specifically cite the route as a reason for going forward with their project.

OTOH, Ed Shadid and others argue that we do enough economic development and that money should be invested in proven public trans like the bus system, which needs all types of help.

But really, these are two different goals although if and when the streetcar is extended to the Health Sciences Center and Capitol Hill, I believe it will then serve a valuable public transport purpose. And before you do that, you have to start with this, the first phase.

Did not know that Little Rock Arkansas has had a streetcar since 2004. Wow, are we behind

^ Columbus OH, Indianapolis, Birmingham, Nashville, Austin, Louisville, Miami, Orlando, Jacksonville, Raleigh, Richmond, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, etc. don't have streetcars yet*.

*For some

^ Columbus OH, Indianapolis, Birmingham, Nashville, Austin, Louisville, Miami, Orlando, Jacksonville, Raleigh, Richmond, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, etc. don't have streetcars yet*.

*For some
Los Angeles doesn't have one and does NYC have one?

^ Columbus OH, Indianapolis, Birmingham, Nashville, Austin, Louisville, Miami, Orlando, Jacksonville, Raleigh, Richmond, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, etc. don't have streetcars yet*.

*For some

The point of the video was the economic stimulus a street car can have. All those cities except maybe Milwaukee, Richmond and maybe Louisville are growing fast with robust population and economic growth. Given the premise that a street car can generate economic growth along it's route my point is that OKC, which is or should be desirous of economic growth could have started earlier.

Milwaukee is laying track for their streetcar. Their cars will be built by the same company as ours and are scheduled to be completed right after ours. They also expect to be in service by late 2018.

Milwaukee is also much further along than OKC in its own downtown/urban renaissance; lack of streetcar notwithstanding. While the OKC streetcar is great and is likely to be a transformational project for downtown OKC, having one or not having one is by no means indicative of success or failure for a city.

Little Rock is a great smallish city, and their fun little tourist-oriented streetcar line - which is an old-fashioned "heritage" type that carries about 350 per day - is charming, but it hardly places OKC behind LR form a downtown development perspective. The hyperbolic negativity and trolling in that post is ridiculous.

El Reno has had a similar heritage streetcar line since around 2000. Does that mean they are "ahead" of everybody else?

Weren't there plans to bring back El Reno's streetcar?

I've been in El Reno while the streetcar has been operating in the last year. I'm not sure what it was being used for (e.g. testing, tourist, etc), but it still works.

Grew up in El Reno. They put in that streetcar while I was in highschool. My family still lives in town. I don't know no anyone that has ever ridden it. It's been 15 years since I've seen it run. And I'm in town frequently due to family.

I rode the El Reno streetcar a couple of years ago.

El Reno's trolley runs Wednesday through Sunday. Today it is open 10-5.

Grew up in El Reno. They put in that streetcar while I was in highschool. My family still lives in town. I don't know no anyone that has ever ridden it. It's been 15 years since I've seen it run. And I'm in town frequently due to family.

You were in high school in 1908? :tongue:

^^^^^^
The current heritage trolley line was installed between 1999 and 2001.

did they install new rails or use the existing ones?

^^^^^^
The current heritage trolley line was installed between 1999 and 2001.

Correct. I graduated in 1999 and the road in front of the high school that year was all torn up. They put in new rails at least for that part. Because prior there were no rails in front of the high school. They had some sheets of plywood over the hole dug out so you could get in and out of the building.

I walked through the Reno/Robinson intersection last night, and even though track has been laid in a bunch of other parts of town, I don't think it hit me until then that this is really happening. Seeing the curve of the rails through such a huge intersection... There's just something really cool and big city-like about seeing this happen.

Yes, going down and seeing the rails in person is really psychologically stimulating. Just wait until the catenary is being installed.

did they install new rails or use the existing ones?

Most if not all was new rail. I toured the project when El Reno hosted the Oklahoma Main Street Conference - or maybe it was the Statewide Preservation Conference; can't remember - and the construction was VERY similar to what we are seeing today in downtown.

I wonder what the cost comparison is per track mile. Although I guess that was before the whole streetcar re-boom so maybe prices were better then. Makes it kind of a bigger shame we didn't get a downtown rail project in MAPS I. We may have gotten more bang for our buck back then (similar to how we got good back for our buck for the arena), and would possibly be in the middle of some late phase expansions by now...

I walked through the Reno/Robinson intersection last night, and even though track has been laid in a bunch of other parts of town, I don't think it hit me until then that this is really happening. Seeing the curve of the rails through such a huge intersection... There's just something really cool and big city-like about seeing this happen.

+1

My favorite is over by the bricktown ballpark. ....feels big league to me

https://twitter.com/OKCStreetcar/status/905958360561930245

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJKcU17XcAAc0Py.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJKcUyDXcAEomC8.jpg

Double post.

It was pointed out at the scissortail park public meeting last night that this is the only streetcar stop with track on both sides.

Really low light when I took this. But this is the first cable of the catenary that I've seen.

https://i.imgur.com/FwxF4FZ.jpg

Went to visit Kansas City a while back and while looking for 'Brioche' bakery, stumbled on the KC trolley, and rode the loop. A nice starter system, looking forward to OKC's
The person at Brioche said the trolley was bringing people from the suburbs that wouldn't come, or never have been to Downtown....

I can't wait for our trolley

Went to visit Kansas City a while back and while looking for 'Brioche' bakery, stumbled on the KC trolley, and rode the loop. A nice starter system, looking forward to OKC's
The person at Brioche said the trolley was bringing people from the suburbs that wouldn't come, or never have been to Downtown....

Their streetcar is a total of 2.2 miles, OKC's will be over 3 times that length.

Please forgive my laziness for not wanting to search through 274 pages ...

But has there been any mention of the fare rates for the streetcar yet? Are they simply going to use the existing Embark bus system fares?

When I went to a streetcar fare study public meeting on 4/26/17, fares had not yet been determined, but that certainly could have changed since then.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar093017.jpg

The way that's designed, the front (North) side of the building looks like a big drawer. I kind of want to push it in.

The way that's designed, the front (North) side of the building looks like a big drawer. I kind of want to push it in.

lol

It does look one of those drawers at the drive-thru bank teller.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/drawer.jpg

I would agree, but most of us won't be looking at it from above!

I would agree, but most of us won't be looking at it from above!

Right, of course... Certainly didn't mean to criticize the design.

Actually really cool to see the tracks leading into it starting to take shape.

the Kansas City street car was free, how would you spell that in Oklahoma? LOL

Engineer says 15 months away from operation. And we should receive our first car by the end of October.

Thought some might like this video.

https://youtu.be/-cjfTG8DbwA

I don't know if this is the place for it, but I have to express my disappointment (read: rant) with how many negative comments I'm hearing about the streetcar. Over the past few months I've heard a number of disparaging remarks saying it is a waste of money, a "toy" for the rich people in the city to play with, etc. This morning on my way to work I had on 93.3 Jake FM and they just ripped into it -- saying no one was going to ride it except drunks, they'd have to waste more time and money pulling the tracks back up, no one even lives down there, "we're not San Francisco, we have Uber and can walk", etc. With those attitudes about the value of public transit I'm worried complaints about lack of ridership will become a self-fulfilling prophecy -- but I also thought I remembered hearing that the streetcar polled to be one of the most popular MAPS 3 projects (?). What gives? I don't know if this is necessary, but is there any way to change public perception about the streetcar and educate people about its worth? Would people see more value in it if it were more expansive and therefore practical for more people? Coming from the East Coast I'm biased toward the value of public transit but these feelings are seemingly not shared by many here. I want to see it succeed but with these attitudes seemingly everywhere I'm a bit nervous.

^

Remember this is just the first phase of what is likely to become a greatly expanded network.

If/when extended to the health sciences center and capitol, OCU / Plaza and Capitol Hill, then we'll really have something. But that will take time.