Like shawnw mentioned:

This is a concern for the area because drivers 'freak out' when they enter the circle; not really knowing what to do or how to maintain consistent traffic flow.

The biggest issue with traffic circles in OKC for me is when people don't use their turn signals. If people would just signal appropriately you would know if they are going to turn out of the circle and if it's safe to go ahead and enter vs stopping at the yield sign to give them the right of way only to have them turn right before they get to you.

Like shawnw mentioned:

This is a concern for the area because drivers 'freak out' when they enter the circle; not really knowing what to do or how to maintain consistent traffic flow.

Yes, Oklahoma drivers do not understand roundabouts. No, it is not inducing "gridlock" just bc you may get stuck for two seconds behind someone who's probably prone to frequent stops anyway.

In this unique application, at least drivers who are timid about entering the roundabout aren't going to be in the way of ambulances that don't have to clear a five-way intersection.

Some of you should probably start laying on your horn to change behavior :P I find passive aggressiveness to be the best way to deal with slow drivers in the upper midwest.

Yes, Oklahoma drivers do not understand roundabouts. No, it is not inducing "gridlock" just bc you may get stuck for two seconds behind someone who's probably prone to frequent stops anyway.

In this unique application, at least drivers who are timid about entering the roundabout aren't going to be in the way of ambulances that don't have to clear a five-way intersection.

Some of you should probably start laying on your horn to change behavior :P I find passive aggressiveness to be the best way to deal with slow drivers in the upper midwest.

On my way to work on the exit ramp off LHP @ Britton the Eastbound turn lane has it's own dedicated ROW, but people stop all the time as if they're going to merge.

Since there is signage showing the integration from the off-ramp to Britton, when someone slows or stops I just lay on the horn.

Occasionally I get a nice middle finger out of the deal :wink:

The biggest issue with traffic circles in OKC for me is when people don't use their turn signals. If people would just signal appropriately you would know if they are going to turn out of the circle and if it's safe to go ahead and enter vs stopping at the yield sign to give them the right of way only to have them turn right before they get to you.

The problem is that even if they signal, if you pull out in front of them and they don't turn you're still liable. My wife totalled her first car that way.

At the downtown BID meeting this morning there was a presentation from the streetcar team and they said , per the current schedule, we should see streetcar tests on the Bricktown loop by April 2018 (so one year). Also all 22 stop names have been chosen after much deliberation (no list provided). They are trying to have work on Sheridan (e.g. water utility issues) done and out of the way of the memorial marathon. They are also trying to be done with Joe Carter by Dodgers opening day.

On my way to work on the exit ramp off LHP @ Britton the Eastbound turn lane has it's own dedicated ROW, but people stop all the time as if they're going to merge.

Since there is signage showing the integration from the off-ramp to Britton, when someone slows or stops I just lay on the horn.

Occasionally I get a nice middle finger out of the deal :wink:

THANK YOU though for doing your part toward ongoing driver education. It really takes a village to end stupid lol.

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is constant updates on construction of the Streetcar:

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/home/?u=c067e0500e2a024737cbed896&id=b50f882414

that list was mentioned at the BID meeting and I meant to post that, thanks for posting

How much money is being set aside for potential utility conflicts, or for upgrading aged utilities beneath the tracks to keep from having to potentially dig the tracks up or disturb service in the future should one of those utilities fail or have an issue? Of the savings from the bids being so far under budget, was it all blown on an extra car?

How much money is being set aside for potential utility conflicts, or for upgrading aged utilities beneath the tracks to keep from having to potentially dig the tracks up or disturb service in the future should one of those utilities fail or have an issue? Of the savings from the bids being so far under budget, was it all blown on an extra car?

Upgrades and such were mainly done during P180 anyway; I'm sure there's general continence for the latter. I wouldn't call buying that streetcar blowing money.

In some spots yes, but not in Bricktown. Doesnt seem wise to lay new track over 107 year old cast iron waterlines.

Also, i heard an astounding number that I didn't verify but KC spent $20 million on unexpected utility upgrades during their project. Seems outrageous and by no means am I suggesting that could or would happen here (mainly because of said P180 and it taking the brunt of that burden).

P180 enabled substantial cost savings to the streetcar project by providing the exact location of newly installed utilities through the core part of the system. It wasn't the level of integration that I personally wanted, but undeniably, P180 has had a dramatic positive impact on the streetcar project. Utility relocations, particularly for water lines, are underway to remove them from beneath the tracks. They are subsequently being upgraded. Semi-inert, unpressurized utilities such as sewers, may not be necessarily relocated. We are financing a OG+E vault relocation on Robinson. This is probably the most impactful and costly relocation.

Contingency funds remain above and beyond through the overall program for additional unknowns. The 7th streetcar purchase was due to the excessive funds available and the cost savings derived from adding them to the current production order instead of EMBARK doing a one-off order later.

Utility relocations, particularly for water lines, are underway to remove them from beneath the tracks.

Maybe for the ones Jacobs drew on the plans, but I'm talking about undiscovered lines in non-P180 areas. Perhaps I'll catch you Saturday and we can discuss.

Just thankful that St. Anthony's decided to continue with its hospital expansion instead of rebuilding in another location.


http://www.medcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/St-Anthony-4206-2-1.jpg

Recall Fort Worth's St. Joseph's Hospital (constructed in the 1950s) was finally demolished in 2012:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/notrub43/Posting/SJHospital.jpg
St. Joseph Hospital, Fort Worth, Texas

St. Anthony's could have been met with a similar fate. http://castleduncan.com/forum/uploads/post-16-1129726326.gif

Really cool that OKC is going to start out with 6.8 miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7cyPMq18s&feature=youtu.be

Driven Broadway a number of times; it's difficult to picture the streetcar in that area being that it's such a narrow street. Are that going to eliminate the angled curve parking?

Really cool that OKC is going to start out with 6.8 miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7cyPMq18s&feature=youtu.be

Driven Broadway a number of times; it's difficult to picture the streetcar in that area being that it's such a narrow street. Are that going to eliminate the angled curve parking?

Broadway is a very wide street. Unfortunately, rather than narrowing the street and adding protected bike lanes or other amenities such as trees, the angled parking will revert to parallel on the east side to accommodate a second northbound lane that will contain the streetcar but will also be open to auto traffic.

Broadway is a very wide street. Unfortunately, rather than narrowing the street and adding protected bike lanes or other amenities such as trees, the angled parking will revert to parallel on the east side to accommodate a second northbound lane that will contain the streetcar but will also be open to auto traffic.Broadway is not wide at all. It isn't that narrow, but it is certainly not that wide of a street as far as wide streets go.

Broadway is not wide at all. It isn't that narrow, but it is certainly not that wide of a street as far as wide streets go.

it's decently wide for a street but not super wide as far as roads go.

it's decently wide for a street but not super wide as far as roads go.Yeah, I was referring though to some of the wide boulevards in Paris, some of the streets in Manhattan and LA. Compared to the rest of the streets in DTOKC, I'd say it's much wider.

OKC preparing ordinances for start of streetcar system

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record April 7, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – City officials are already laying the groundwork for streetcar ordinances and business development along the downtown route before it starts running at the end of 2018.

Embark spokesman Michael Scroggins said the Oklahoma City transit authority is working with several other departments and agencies such as public works and development services to work out new permitting standards and the legal department on drafting new ordinance language.

Embark is the business unit of the Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority.

City Hall is even looking at how a streetcar line will affect planning for special events such as 5K runs and arts festivals, he said. Traffic rights of way and parking are at the top of the list.

“What happens if they park on the tracks? We’re going to need some sort of tow-and-fine procedure in place,” he said.

“We want as much of this settled as possible before it starts up.”

The streetcar is one of several major projects under the $777 million MAPS 3 sales tax, which includes a new convention center and central park along the streetcar route. City Hall has been seeking feedback from residents and business operators in the area over the last couple of years to determine the greatest benefit with the least disruption.

Scroggins said disruption ordinances must include establishing a safety zone or envelope around the streetcar lines.

Rules elsewhere in the country suggest a minimum distance of 10 feet: Work planned within that range anywhere in the system requires that each person involved must go through a special certification program first.

The ADG architectural firm, which is running the installation of the streetcar, is following a map of its own in plotting out traffic detours and minimizing business impacts, company spokeswoman Kristen Torkelson said.

“The contractor has been really good about making the smallest footprint possible for construction,” Torkelson said. “And if there’s no work at the time, they move all the traffic controls off the street and reopen lanes as soon as possible to keep things moving. Feedback has been very positive so far.”

The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City is also involved, determining the best feedback measures to identify development near the streetcar route, according to a spokeswoman for the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber.

Scroggins and other city leaders said they expect the $132 million project will influence how business plans grow, which will require policy adjustments in how downtown builds out.

I noticed the lines in Bricktown when i was there for a Dodgers game this weekend. Something that's going to bug me is that the lines are in car traffic lines. What the heck is the benefit of riding the train if the train has to wait for the cars that are stopped at the street light? Seems kind of silly if the lines are put in the same route as cars.....at least to me.

I noticed the lines in Bricktown when i was there for a Dodgers game this weekend. Something that's going to bug me is that the lines are in car traffic lines. What the heck is the benefit of riding the train if the train has to wait for the cars that are stopped at the street light? Seems kind of silly if the lines are put in the same route as cars.....at least to me.

Ever been to 'Frisco ?

The streetcars will have traffic signal prioritization. You will WANT to be at a light with a streetcar because they'll turn green faster.

I noticed the lines in Bricktown when i was there for a Dodgers game this weekend. Something that's going to bug me is that the lines are in car traffic lines. What the heck is the benefit of riding the train if the train has to wait for the cars that are stopped at the street light? Seems kind of silly if the lines are put in the same route as cars.....at least to me.

This has to be sarcasm.... You actually thought this was a dedicated track system?!

Somebody refresh my memory...did we wind up going with wired or non-wired (or whatever you call it) streetcars?

Somebody refresh my memory...did we wind up going with wired or non-wired (or whatever you call it) streetcars?

I believe most of the system will run on wired technology, with the option to go wireless on certain portions of the track.

We'll be at least partially wired. At the BID board meeting the streetcar communication coordinator described the process that will be happening along the route (independently of the track construction and utility work) to dig holes in the ground and pour concrete for the foundations of the overhead wire poles.

Bricktown and much of AA and Midtown is on wire but the CBD is not. Having off wire technology makes it easy to go under the BNSF bridges!

Thanks for the answers! I remember the initial discussion but didn't recall the final decision.

Fare Study - Public Meeting
Wednesday, Apr 26, 2017 12:00 pm | Special Meeting

FARE STUDY SEEKS PUBLIC INPUT
Public hearings are being held to receive input concerning EMBARK’s existing fare structure, fare products and fare policy for EMBARK Bus, ADA Paratransit, Oklahoma City Streetcar, Off-Street Parking, Spokies Bike Share and Oklahoma River Cruises.

PUBLIC HEARINGS
Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at noon.
Cotter Ranch Tower, 100 N Broadway #3113,
Community Room (3rd floor)

Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 5:30 pm.
Downtown Library, 300 Park Ave.,
Classroom A (4th floor)

I have not heard from set up for a new commuter train and light rails?

From https://twitter.com/WILLIAMCRUM/status/858857257030889472


Oklahoma City's first streetcar on the assembly line in Brookville, Pa. #OKC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-tGH2xXUAA81Eb.jpg:large

From https://twitter.com/WILLIAMCRUM/status/858857257030889472

Woot!!

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/12/528190480/after-61-years-detroit-gets-a-streetcar-once-more

Good read

From https://twitter.com/WILLIAMCRUM/status/858857257030889472

i don't know why i assumed they would look more like the San Francisco trolleys. Still exciting!

How applicable are these concerns to OKC? I've certainly always thought the idea that this initial transit line had much to do with transportation was hard to defend. It's not needed for transportation. Only if this line is dramatically expanded, particularly into areas where mass transportation is needed and into dense clusters, would it serve as a real transportation option, IMHO. Thoughts?

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/05/the-streetcar-boondoggle-continues-this-time-in-detroit/526878/

I'm very worried that the streetcar will experience a large crowd in the beginning as most new shiny things do and then ridership will get really bad. Then I'm response whatever agency operates it(I'm guessing Embark?) will cut service which will only further doom it. Then to make it even worse if it becomes a haven where the homeless just ride it using drugs, screaming profanity, etc. and it gets a bad reputation.

That's an extremely negative outlook, but one that could easily become a reality if the city isn't careful in how it goes about. Eventually it should see decent ridership, but I'm worried about the first few years.

Wait, I thought you loved profanity and thought OKC needs more of it. I'm confused. ;)

I think an aggressive expansion/connection plan is needed to serve real transportation needs.

lol yes I do in certain aspects I want there to be more vulgarness in the city but that's mainly just because it mirrors what I experience in major cities and I want to OKC to reflect that.

But on the other end of the spectrum, it becomes rather tiring experiencing it when using transit especially if its daily. Since I have no car and rely on transit spending sometimes hours a day on rail or bus, I've grown to hate transit personally and while I see it's benefits, I can't wait to get a car again. The reason I bring that up is because anything that negatively affects my experience takes more of a toll on me than it should. LA people have something going on that isn't normal with a lot of them. That includes me.

But quite honestly, I wish the money for the street car would have gone to a light rail system. We'd need about 800 million more to get a decent start, but I just don't like transit that runs at grade. It isn't good for vehicle traffic and is a disincentive for people to use imo because light rail that is separated by grade moves people faster.

That being said since OKC chose this option I want to see it succeed. I am just worried they will drop the ball on this.

I think anything along the streetcar line is going to explode development wise. Has the simple advantage of road+streetcar versus just road. Tourists are going to love it, will provide a decent baseload of ridership. As it becomes a thing over the years locals will use it more and more.

At a recent embark public meeting, the concern about people riding the bus all day long to stay warm and sheltered was brought up. There was mention of some policy tweaks forthcoming to possibly address this. We'll see how it goes.

At a recent embark public meeting, the concern about people riding the bus all day long to stay warm and sheltered was brought up. There was mention of some policy tweaks forthcoming to possibly address this. We'll see how it goes.

What kind of policy changes were discussed?

Embark didn't go into specifics, just mentioned they were looking at making policy adjustments.

Embark didn't go into specifics, just mentioned they were looking at making policy adjustments.

Gotcha, thanks. I have never ridden the bus in OKC, are the fares time based or distance based?

Not sure of really how they can enforce, it was a problem in Portland on the MAX light rail. But was one of those issues that was difficult to enforce. You can write all the transit tickets you want but someone who doesn't have the money to pay won't pay, and may even welcome a trip to jail for a few days to get a shower and warm place to stay for the night. It just creates a criminal out of someone who otherwise wasn't harming anyone.

Agreed it's going to be hard to enforce. Fares are not based on time or distance presently. What folks do is, they get a day pass for $4, and they get on the longest route they can find (I hear it's a big problem on the 14 and 15 routes) and they ride it until someone makes them get off, and then they find another route to ride with that day pass.

(I mostly ride the 10 and 50, sometimes the 5 and the 23)

A new construction update video has been posted to the OKC YouTube channel:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mjvhcXkV2Q

My cousin was in town this weekend wanting to do tourist stuff. We saw some of the construction going on and she asked about it. I explained it. She thought it was the coolest thing ever.

This will be big for visitors.

Sorry if this has been answered but looking at construction down Reno yesterday it looks like the track is going to take up the whole westbound right lane. Will cars be able to drive on this when train isn't there or will it always be blocked off and only the train will be use it?

Sorry if this has been answered but looking at construction down Reno yesterday it looks like the track is going to take up the whole westbound right lane. Will cars be able to drive on this when train isn't there or will it always be blocked off and only the train will be use it?

For traffic purposes the streetcar is pretty much the same as a bus, and they share the lane with traffic. At least that is my understanding.

For traffic purposes the streetcar is pretty much the same as a bus, and they share the lane with traffic. At least that is my understanding.

Correct you can drive on the rails. There may be certain areas where it has its own protected lane in high pedestrian traffic areas. I think in front of the Maps 3 park is one of those areas.

It's a real shame the streetcar won't have dedicated ROW across the majority of its route. Reno would be perfect for that since it should go on a road diet with the Boulevard coming online.

But then it wouldn't be a streetcar, it'd be a ROWcar :-P

It's a real shame the streetcar won't have dedicated ROW across the majority of its route. Reno would be perfect for that since it should go on a road diet with the Boulevard coming online.

What are the advantages of dedicated ROW if the streetcars are going to have traffic signal prioritization?

^^^^^^^
Signal prioritization helps, but without dedicated ROW the streetcar could still get stuck behind vehicles turning left, for instance, or in gridlocked Saturday night traffic in Bricktown or Midtown, or behind a plodding horse carriage. Regarding the last item, I believe OCPD and the City are taking actions to essentially ban carriages from the streetcar route and compel them to stick to streets without tracks.

sweet baby jeebus, thank goodness for fewer carriages on major thoroughfares

^^^^^^^
Signal prioritization helps, but without dedicated ROW the streetcar could still get stuck behind vehicles turning left, for instance, or in gridlocked Saturday night traffic in Bricktown or Midtown, or behind a plodding horse carriage. Regarding the last item, I believe OCPD and the City are taking actions to essentially ban carriages from the streetcar route and compel them to stick to streets without tracks.

Hadn't thought about traffic jams, and apparently I haven't looked at the streetcar route closely enough because I assumed it would travel in the rightmost lane at all times, so the turning left problem wouldn't've occurred to me in a million years.

Depending on where you start from, it will have to turn left from Broadway onto 11th, then from 11th, left onto Dewey, then from Dewey, left onto 10th. You don't make a left again until Sheridan (from Robinson), then from Reno onto Gaylord. Lastly to get onto Broadway from 4th it's a left.

Thanks for the answers. So depending on the time of day it could very inefficient going short distances. Might be better off walking.

^^^^^^^
Signal prioritization helps, but without dedicated ROW the streetcar could still get stuck behind vehicles turning left, for instance, or in gridlocked Saturday night traffic in Bricktown or Midtown, or behind a plodding horse carriage. Regarding the last item, I believe OCPD and the City are taking actions to essentially ban carriages from the streetcar route and compel them to stick to streets without tracks.

Exactly. And if you can't get somewhere faster/more comfortably on transit than other options, there's not much incentive to prioritize it over other options like driving.