Tulsans discussed it here: TulsaNow Forum - OKC to get highrise/ possible tallest skyscraper (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9290&whichpage=2)
Many of the TulsaNow posters were favorable, or at least didn't resort to cheap shots. Of course, there are guys there like Conan71 who said,


Distinction of the tallest building in Oklahoma, but OKC will still suck. I mean what is the view from 900 feet in OKC?

"Beauty is fleeting, stupidity lasts a lifetime"
What makes this worse for me is that I like Conan the Barbarian! This guy's statement was, BTW, in a different thread at TulsaNow: TulsaNow Forum - Devon Tower in OKC Unveiled (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11056)

just finished reading that thread doug. now i feel for the poor guys. they just have really bad leadership right now. however, i don't get what they're talking about okc hogging all the state money.

just finished reading that thread doug. now i feel for the poor guys. they just have really bad leadership right now. however, i don't get what they're talking about okc hogging all the state money.

I personally think that Tulsa wants to blame us for their poor leadership to make themselves feel better. It is called "capital envy". They resort to blaming the State and OKC for their shortcomings. Even the Oklahoman wrote a scathing editoral a couple of months about Tulsa becoming so envious of OKC and that it's envy was on default setting. OKC has always been the capital city and always will be. We are a larger metropolitan area. Tulsa has it's trees and hills, however, it lacks the forward thinking, efficiency in their "leadership".

just finished reading that thread doug. now i feel for the poor guys. they just have really bad leadership right now. however, i don't get what they're talking about okc hogging all the state money.

I live in Tulsa and post on Tulsanow a lot, I don't get it either, in fact I'm having that convo with a guy in a thread now. Why the hate for OKC? Its like the OKC hate for tulsa in the 80s/early 90s completely unfounded.

Tulsa has atrocious leadership, until they fix their own problems the city will not right itself. But I think Tulsans are beginning to get fed up and I'm hoping the next election cycle marks major change for Tulsa. Living and working in the Tulsa metro and working in the heart of downtown I have a pretty big vested interest in the city.

Devon Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_Tower)
Doug will love me for posting this.

Its like the OKC hate for tulsa in the 80s/early 90s completely unfounded.

completely unfounded?? pfffft!
so the constant ridicule, the everflowing, belittling comments about okc being an uncultured cowtown, treeless trailerpark of a wasteland had nothing to do with it? surely you were on the receiving end of some of that growing up in okc. i got all the time and still hear it.

however, i'm working through that anger now.

completely unfounded?? pfffft!
so the constant ridicule, the everflowing, belittling comments about okc being an uncultured cowtown, treeless trailerpark of a wasteland had nothing to do with it? surely you were on the receiving end of some of that growing up in okc. i got all the time and still hear it.

however, i'm working through that anger now.

Of course I got it all the time, hell my Aunt lived in Tulsa in the 70s and was always talking about what a ****hole OKC was compared with it. People will think and say what they want, I knew OKC was up and coming when maps passed. I was a young chap but I knew the implications were positive for the city even though my father was dead set against it. I knew OKC would turn the corner, I just didn't know when. I knew tulsa when I visited was quite nice. But I tried not to allow the rampant hate or dislike of OKC spill over into my opinion of Tulsa. I don't think it did. The hate from OKC was uncalled for just like the hate from Tulsa today is uncalled for and quite frankly childish.

Of course I got it all the time, hell my Aunt lived in Tulsa in the 70s and was always talking about what a ****hole OKC was compared with it. People will think and say what they want, I knew OKC was up and coming when maps passed. I was a young chap but I knew the implications were positive for the city even though my father was dead set against it. I knew OKC would turn the corner, I just didn't know when. I knew tulsa when I visited was quite nice. But I tried not to allow the rampant hate or dislike of OKC spill over into my opinion of Tulsa. I don't think it did. The hate from OKC was uncalled for just like the hate from Tulsa today is uncalled for and quite frankly childish.

i understand why they're doing it and am starting to have some empathy. they're jealous about the nba team, the skyscraper and all the attention okc is getting from the media. they feel it should be them.
i have faith in tulsa... they have too many intelligent and talented people that care about tulsa.
you do reap what you sow, so hopefully tulsa learns some humility through all this (hell, i need to learn more as well). it's good to have some rivalry between our cities and it definitely helps okc by having a strong, thriving tulsa next door.

can we please stop ruining every thread here with this talk about Tulsa (and Dallas).

jeez, start a new thread for that crap!

Devon Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_Tower)
Doug will love me for posting this.

Great job, any chance you can post a rendering in the wiki post?

Devon Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_Tower)
Doug will love me for posting this.

The Wikipedia post is incorrect! The building will be 1.9 million square feet, not 2.3. The tower is 1.5 million square feet and the podium is 400,000 square feet (for a total of 1.9 million square feet).

Wikipedia... unreliable open source crap...

;)

The Wikipedia post is incorrect! The building will be 1.9 million square feet, not 2.3. The tower is 1.5 million square feet and the podium is 400,000 square feet (for a total of 1.9 million square feet).

I didn't make the page but somebody needs to, and put accurate info on there. A lot of dopey people (including me) read stuff from Wikipedia. Someone needs to make a 'cities tallest' page for OKC, since Tulsa has one. There's almost nothing on there about our buildings downtown. I think it's important to get that out there and help break the stereotypes. An average person will read or look at something that's right there in their face on one website, rather than having enough interest to Google it.

If we could add up all of the owner occupied and leasibles, Im sure OKC would be well above 8M sq feet downtown. Im not sure if Tulsa has any owner occupieds in their downtown.

Just for clarification, BOK Plaza is included in the 5.5 million -- it's only 250,000 square feet anyway.

The only major owner-occupied buildings are Mid America Plaza (Devon) at 300,000, SandRidge Center 480,000 and a few smaller buildings.

I would say only about 1 million square feet are owner occupied, raising the total to 6.5 million sq. ft. -- still way short of what Tulsa has, and I'm sure they have some owner-occupied as well as do all cities.

No "new" news on the Devon project in the last couple of days...??

Pete, you're leaving off the government buildings. You only illustrated corporate buildings that are owner occupied. What about the Federal Buildings? What about the county and city buildings? Those are owner occupied and there are a significant number of them that make up downtown OKC.

the new federal building should be a significant amount of space, same for the OK county office 'building' and courthouse, and the old federal courthouse.

You're also missing the NGO buildings downtown (like the Oklahoma city community association and a few others like it). those are also owner occupied.

I bet, once you add them all up, along with leasible, it is above 8M.

The Wikipedia post is incorrect! The building will be 1.9 million square feet, not 2.3. The tower is 1.5 million square feet and the podium is 400,000 square feet (for a total of 1.9 million square feet).

Insider, aren't you forgetting the atrium?

No "new" news on the Devon project in the last couple of days...??

What kind of "new" news are you wanting? Devon released all the pertinent info, you probably won't see any major announcements until they break ground next fall. They have to put RFP's out and get contractors lined up, etc.

Pete, you're leaving off the government buildings. You only illustrated corporate buildings that are owner occupied. What about the Federal Buildings? What about the county and city buildings? Those are owner occupied and there are a significant number of them that make up downtown OKC.

the new federal building should be a significant amount of space, same for the OK county office 'building' and courthouse, and the old federal courthouse.

You're also missing the NGO buildings downtown (like the Oklahoma city community association and a few others like it). those are also owner occupied.

I bet, once you add them all up, along with leasible, it is above 8M.

And the DEQ.

When will the contractors start to make bids?

How will a contractor be chosen? Lowest bid? Best quality? Speed of time?

When will the contractors start to make bids?

How will a contractor be chosen? Lowest bid? Best quality? Speed of time?

I'd assume Devon will hire a construction manager based on their expertise, background, and quality. I know Flintco has paired with a national construction company that specializes in skyscraper/highrise construction to interview, not sure who else locally but probably Manhattan as well. I've heard some other national companies are in the mix like J.E. Dunn (just opened an OKC office), Balfour Beatty, Turner, etc. After the CM is hired they will work with the architect & engineer in the Pre-Construction phase doing cost estimating and scheduling. Bids for the actual construction would take place after the Pre-Con phase and would begin with the site work/foundation, then electrical/mechanical, then steel/concrete, and so on as work begins. Just the site work, digging the enormous hole for the underground parking and foundation with what could be 100+ ft. deep piers will take several months in itself. Once construction begins you won't actually see the building rise for awhile...

I think they will be doing the parking garage first and then starting the atrium/tower, is that correct?

the new federal building should be a significant amount of space, same for the OK county office 'building' and courthouse, and the old federal courthouse.

The new federal building is 180,000 square feet. The others are smaller still.


And as mentioned, every single decent-sized city has these types of buildings. I don't see evidence to suggest that OKC is any way unique.

No, the atrium square footage is included in the podium square footage. The podium is what they are calling the entire lower structure. Here is what Devon said in a FAQs page it set up for employees...

How big is the building?
The tower is 1.5 million gross square feet and the podium is 400,000 gross square feet. It will be 1.9 million total gross square feet.


Insider, aren't you forgetting the atrium?

What kind of "new" news are you wanting? Devon released all the pertinent info, you probably won't see any major announcements until they break ground next fall. They have to put RFP's out and get contractors lined up, etc.

What you saw released was a Schematic Design submission. From the architects end the next step in the process will be the Design Development Phase then the Construction Document Phase. Kendall/Heaton Architects will be the Architect of Record , actually taking the project over from Pickard Chilton (Design Architects) producing the Construction Documents (Drawings and Specs). Typically Design Development includes design refinement, development of detailed drawings and specs, and building systems integration. (in a nutshell). The production of the Construction Documents will probably take 6 to 8 months alone. IMO

The design development submission should include updated renderings, possibly some animations, etc.............. we should see more in the months to come.

As far as the project delivery method, this project could be negotiated with one or more General Contractors (a GC team) in a design/build delivery. Or in the design, bid, build senario it could be awarded to a GC or GC team.

I like Devon's plans.

My stepfather is one of the job superintendents for the Embassy Suites in Norman and I visited his jobsite a few weeks ago. I find construction to be totally fascinating. I say the stack of blueprints for the hotel and I can only imagine what the Devon tower's will look like. I could never keep up with all of the details that would go into a building of this size. I think it will be so cool to see the project to go from a picture on a page to real steel and glass and everything else that goes into it.

As I mentioned earlier, I've managed some office build-out construction projects, the largest of which was about $5 million.

And even that was impossibly complex. Working with the architects, engineers, interior designers, contractors and various vendors that supplied furniture, carpeting, lighting, fabrics, etc.... Even after all the plans were drawn and every piece of furniture and scrap of fabric and surface was selected, every single day there was some small crisis with something not being ready on time, a back-order, an unexpected construction variable, etc.

One 'little hitch' involved going into the space below and putting in huge steel reinforcement plates for a vault. Could only be done after hours and every single night they had to tear down the suspended ceiling then completely replace it so the tenant below won't be disturbed before the next day. This went on for a couple of weeks!

And then of course, the furniture would arrive in bulk and there were always mistakes or things didn't fit exactly as planned. Or, a key inspection didn't go smoothly, etc., etc.

I simply can't fathom the scale of this type of project. At least Devon has assembled an all-star team of architects and developers who have delivered tons of these types of buildings.

And it's being built on a large vacant site and Devon owns the only property (The Colcord) that will be directly impacted. That should make things a little less complicated than trying to pull something like this off in the middle of Manhattan.

This is a bit of a side-topic, but does anyone know what Devon's plans are for the Colcord? I remember that years ago there was an idea to increase the space by building a reflective addition that would make it appear that the west wing was actually completed.

In my opinion, it would be best if Devon would choose to actually complete the west wing of the Colcord in the origianal style, much as was done with that wonderful building in Tulsa whose name escapes me right now. Question one is if there will be enough room left for a west wing after the Devon tower is built. A custom-built addition could fit in very well with the new tower and ground level retail and atrium. Question, or better, idea number two is to actually take an addition even further and build a cantilevered addition on TOP of the Colcord that matches the old building. I do believe that this is what also was done in Tulsa. Could be a striking building, all in white, west addition complete, with a magnificient tower next to the new Devon tower. Nice, 5 start hotel rooms in the heart of the city. Any takers?

That was discussed in the thread about them purchasing the hotel. I would only be in favor of adding the wing as originally planned, but that doesn't appear to be in their plans.

I would expect only minor upgrades as well as more cash flow to do things like raise employee salaries and increase the staffing numbers.

From the looks of the Devon site plan, their tower will be pretty close to The Colcord so I don't think there will be room to do much expansion of the hotel.

Even much smaller projects can be complex, add in a retrofit and it just increases the complexity. When I was doing the JDM Place renovation it seemed that I was having to go down there a couple of times a week because of things that were discovered during demolition because there were many things hidden from view that we didn't know about. It was interesting though and the problem solving was always a challenge that I enjoyed trying to figure out.

I replaced my kitchen sink and it required 5 trips to Lowes/Home Depot. That should keep things in perspective for me.

In my opinion, it would be best if Devon would choose to actually complete the west wing of the Colcord in the origianal style, much as was done with that wonderful building in Tulsa whose name escapes me right now. Question one is if there will be enough room left for a west wing after the Devon tower is built. A custom-built addition could fit in very well with the new tower and ground level retail and atrium. Question, or better, idea number two is to actually take an addition even further and build a cantilevered addition on TOP of the Colcord that matches the old building. I do believe that this is what also was done in Tulsa. ?

Mid-Con building.

I seriously doubt Devon is going to add a new wing to the Colcord. It would be nice, but I think it is a pipe dream for now.

How about just connecting the Colcord to the new tower lobby with a small glass enclosed pedestrian hall or skywlk?

On the site plan included in the press kit, not only was there no connection to The Colcord, it doesn't even look like it will be very easy to walk between the two structures.

The only entry to the tower seems to be through the rotunda or the parking garage, which means from The Colcord you'd have to walk all the way around the tower itself to get in.

Myriad Gardens Link?

I worked on the Dean A. McGee Center (the space surounding the amphiteater/water stage) several years ago. The project involved turning what was essentially a storm sewer into a functional reception/educational/conference space. The firm won an AIA award for the renovation project. The biggest challenge was figuring out how to deal with all the leaks. My point is the subgrade areas below will be difficult and costly to repair and renovate. Would have opened up a big can of worms for Devon to attempt a direct link to the Gardens.

I did work on a conceptual study for a new at grade entry on the north side of the gardens, which included retail, restaurant, and recreational venues, including the ice skating on a pond. Hopefully all of this and more will come about with the property tax revenue generated by the Devon development.

While I agree that subgrade work is quite challenging and expensive, it's not like Devon doesn't have the money to pull it off.

Cuatro, keep in mind the funds that are going to be used for this project, are TIF funds. Devon has not announced plans to use additional funds of their own (although I agree they have the funds to ensure it's completion). I want to say the estimate is that $7.5 million in TIF funds would be raised for the lifetime of this project. For those interested, there is a seperate thread discussing the very topic of the Devon/Myriad Gardens planned renovations. I've actually been somewhat on the ground floor of that project, so I will post updates as allowed.

Do we know for sure the existing tunnel between Devon Tower and MG will be scrapped?

Perhaps that would be addressed with TIF funds.

Pete, at the workshop and in other conversations, I heard no mention of a desire to open the tunnel between the two. In fact, I heard quite the opposite. Basically the idea is to create street level foot traffic and quit driving it underground. I think the engineers and planners behind this project are in agreement with that, that has been one of OKC's biggest detractors from spurring more street level retail downtown is lack of foot traffic.

Do we know for sure the existing tunnel between Devon Tower and MG will be scrapped?

The existing tunnel with escalators going down to it will be demolished. It is right in the middle of the plaza in front of the rotunda.

I was in Dallas last weekend, and as I was nearing downtown, and I saw their tallest building...I couldn't help but think to myself "WOW we're going to have something TALLER than that!". Although it's just BARELY taller, it's still exciting to know that we're soon going to have this building towering over the city. But, I'm just as excited to have a NEW high-rise downtown as I am about the height and size of this building. Can't wait!

Hey to all. I live far away and have not heard if the current economic and banking crisis is likely to effect the Devon building. Can anyone elighten me?

Devon is not financing the building. They have money saved up to pay for it, so don't worry. Devon will build it. Oklahoma isn't hurting as bad as other parts of the country because of the banking crisis. Oil and Natural Gas has helped Oklahoma through it.

Devon better build that skyscraper to the fullest height presented. It would be a boost if they add just a bit more, to show the strength of Oklahoma capable of going thru national crisis and recession. That itself will prompt people flowing to the state and boost Oklahoma further.

Great point Thunder - and I agree wholeheartedly!

Any NEW news on the Devon Tower? This threat was hopping for so long...now it's pretty much dead...LOL. But, I suppose it's because all the hype has worn off. I too am a bit concerned with the plans as we see oil prices continue to go DOWN. However, I know Devon has more stakes in natural gas (am I right about this?). Has anyone heard any updates?

I heard/read that Devon closed on the Colcord Hotel a couple of weeks ago.

To me, this is a major indicator of the health of the project. Devon deemed purchasing the hotel as significant due to the potential drop in property value/customer visits to the hotel that construction of the skyscraper would cause.

Since the purchase happened, I would bank 99% or higher that the project will proceed as planned. Devon has the ready cash on hand, and like you said - they are more heavily in natural gas than oil.

I believe they are still adding employees as well, so the skyscraper will still be needed. I only hope that they add some height to beat Houston (hey, only 80 feet would do it).

Anyways, that's my take. I too am waiting on final designs and construction bids. They said they wanted to break ground by 3rd quarter of 2009 - which is July-Sept.

I hope all is on plan and they start 2nd quarter (at least closing off the site and preliminaries). Some have said there has already been surveyers out - so perhaps this might be a reality? (I dont think they would start in 4th qu (since it already begun and it and 1st qu are winter/cold times).

Will the new building be LEED certified??

Any NEW news on the Devon Tower? This threat was hopping for so long...now it's pretty much dead...LOL. But, I suppose it's because all the hype has worn off. I too am a bit concerned with the plans as we see oil prices continue to go DOWN. However, I know Devon has more stakes in natural gas (am I right about this?). Has anyone heard any updates?

Threads on OKCTalk are generally speaking, about the worst indicators possible as to the viability of anything in the world.

Give it some time. The architects can't put together the DD drawings overnight. It takes several months, especially with a project this large. Once DD's are finished the contractor will be hired (if they haven't been already) and bidding for the subcontracted work will begin. I have heard it is between Flintco (partnered with a national company) and another national company. Usually the best sign to look for is when the contractor mobilizes on site (when you see the trailers go up, fencing erected, etc.).

I was in Dallas last weekend, and as I was nearing downtown, and I saw their tallest building...I couldn't help but think to myself "WOW we're going to have something TALLER than that!". Although it's just BARELY taller, it's still exciting to know that we're soon going to have this building towering over the city. But, I'm just as excited to have a NEW high-rise downtown as I am about the height and size of this building. Can't wait!

For those who haven't been there... imagine yourself downtown in 2012. Do street view.
Link (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=&daddr=32.779956,-96.802394&hl=en&geocode=&mra=mi&mrsp=0&sz=19&sll=32.780467,-96.802098&sspn=0.001385,0.002368&layer=c&ie=UTF8&ll=32.781136,-96.802393&spn=0.002769,0.004737&t=h&z=18&cbll=32.779956,-96.802394&panoid=NnxFmqbJWQIV7bXJbBUfCw&cbp=1,277.21017453762505,,0,-13.454173773821877)

Bank of America Plaza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America_Plaza_(Dallas)).

Thanks Hot Rod...that is great news, and encouraging!! Glad to have the update. :)

There are a lot of things that need to be done before construction begins from the time of the announcement till the time they break ground. The working drawings will be the big hurdle, they can change several times before they are completed. Thought I'd heard they already knew who they wanted to do construction, may be not.

Any guesses on the low point of oil price that derails this project? $80/barrel maybe?

I don't think there is a low end. Devon is spread out across 4 or 5 buildings so keeping the status quo is not an option. The only thing that might change is the height since space was added for future growth that might not occur for a while. I heard somewhere about 2 years ago that the energy industry controls their cost to make the break even point at about $25 per barrel. Until there is a viable alternative fuel source I don't think oil will ever see $25.

Somehow I have a feeling people are going to ask this question for the next year until they break ground. This isn't a cookie cutter McDonalds, buildings of this magnatude take a lot of planning, implementing, bidding, and purchasing before you can break ground. Let's keep in perspective folks, the announcement was less than 1.5 months ago.

It is just another sign of the instant gratification society, most people don't realize how long things actually take....especially dealing with buildings. In fact many clients don't understand it either, as a former co-worker up there used to say when it came to clients and project time lines, most live under the assumption that you could give 9 women 1 month to have a baby instead of it taking 9 months.

I have been working on a 70,000 sf tenant finish-out for 9 months, we spent six months getting the manufacturing/warehouse and offices designed.

I noticed Pickard Chilton added The Devon World Headquarters project to their website under corporate projects..........

http://www.pickardchilton.com/pagProject.aspx?Group='CORPORATE'&ID=56