Lift

[Teo9969]

And to be sure, there is absolutely zero need for an extension…If we can't be bothered to walk 2 to 5 blocks to get to mass transit then we may as well give up now.

[Praedura]

I want to answer the couple of posters who replied to my suggestion.

I'm not saying that the current planned route is bad. It's not. It's perfectly fine.

I'm not saying that these new developments on or near Shartel are being left out in the cold and won't have streetcar access. Obviously they will, and the residents can definitely walk a block or two to get to a stop.

What I am saying is that the route would be EVEN BETTER if it were to loop just a few hundred yards further west. It's pretty clear now that all kinds of residential development is happening out there which will house a lot of people. Having the streetcar swing essentially right along the front door (if you will) would be a great convenience and increase the line's usefulness. We (meaning the route planners) didn't know about all these new development when the path was planned. Had they known, it seems likely that they would have stretched the loop a little further west to grab this new area of activity.

But I realize this is a long shot, because it's so late in the game. And I won't be all broken up about it if it doesn't happen -- likely it won't. I just think it would be a better route if this relatively simple extension were included.

[catch22]

I keep a running map of construction projects downtown. (Usually just new build, it's too hard to keep track of the smaller renovations on a map)

Red: Under construction or about to be very soon
Pink: Active proposal
Blue: Rumored possibility of development
Green Line: Approved Streetcar Phase I route



It's interesting to note that the streetcar route and pretty much most of the new developments are in series with each other. Again, just wait until the rails are in the ground, and this map will be very congested with red and pink squares.

[Praedura]

The City should contact all these developers and see if they are willing to pay for route extensions to their properties.

Highly (make that *extremely*) unlikely that they would be willing to do this. No other property owners or businesses are ponying up funds for access.

[Pete]

Highly (make that *extremely*) unlikely that they would be willing to do this. No other property owners or businesses are ponying up funds for access.

Common practice in other cities.

If I was developing one of these complexes, I'd consider the expense. You would make it back in increased rents and improved property value.

[Teo9969]

Common practice in other cities.

If I was developing one of these complexes, I'd consider the expense. You would make it back in increased rents and improved property value.

Over how long? That would cost at least $5,000,000 wouldn't it? Or $15,291 per unit. To make that money back in 5 years, you'd have to charge $250 more per month in rent. Not that that's crazy by any means, but it may be enough of a difference to swing people's decisions to stay at the Edge and walk 2 blocks to get to the street car.

Now, I think the utility of having a stop on your property is far higher for the retail portions. If that's going to be significant in this development, then it may be worth it and would be a strong selling point for bringing in the best available tenants. By significant, I mean, the street-level portion of the building that fronts Shartel and 10th would need to be almost entirely non-residential space.

It's not a bad idea, but they need to be able to realistically make their money back in 5 years for it to be worth it to them, even if it's worth more in the long run. $5MM can be a good start to another development.

[Pete]

^
You are assuming only one property owner paying for those extra two blocks, where in fact in the case of this property (10th & Shartel) there would be several MidtownR properties within a block (including 1201 N Francis), the Physicians & Surgeons Building, future development in the parking lot of the same, gets the Catholic Charities building within two blocks, it would access more of the St. Anthony campus, several smaller properties, etc.

[Teo9969]

^
You are assuming only one property owner paying for those extra two blocks, where in fact in the case of this property (10th & Shartel) there would be several MidtownR properties within a block (including 1201 N Francis), the Physicians & Surgeons Building, future development in the parking lot of the same, gets the Catholic Charities building within two blocks, it would access more of the St. Anthony campus, several smaller properties, etc.

Fair point.

[soonerguru]

The people developing these properties are aware of the approved streetcar route. These announcements were made after the vote. It's fair to assume they believe their developments are close enough to the route to benefit from it.

[ljbab728]

I agree, SG. While it might be nice of them to want to contribute to an extension, I think they are totally satisfied with things as they are in making their current investment and don't see that as necessary to success.

[Teo9969]

The proposed route surely came out well after the property was acquired and planning begun.

And while, yes, they're close enough to benefit, they could benefit likely exponentially more (again, especially in the retail aspect), if the route stops right on their front door.

That being said…I'd rather it be handled in a future extension than on this route. The current route is already a decently long ride.

[mugofbeer]

With the history of St. Anthony's and their investment in the surrounding neighborhood, perhaps they could be convinced of a light rail connection to downtown and participation in paying for an extension? They are only a block away at 10th.

[Praedura]

Well, we're in a lull at the moment waiting for more details/updates on this project.

I did come across a nice video put out by Milhaus on a current project called Artistry (apartments being built in the Arts District of Indianapolis).

Artistry Intro Bumper on Vimeo

Here's some screenshots:














Similar in size/scale to this project (10th & Shartel) and The Edge.

More info at ArtistryIndy.com. Can't wait for Milhaus to put up a similar website up for 10th & Shartel (assuming that they do).

[Spartan]

I like their concept of balconies. They're consistent so we can predict what we'll get.

Downtown Indy is obviously awesome, but it's weird how small the skyline's visible massing from the south is. You sorta drive through on 70 wondering, "Is this it?"

[soonerguru]

Spartan, have to agree that skyline is less than awe inspiring.

[PWitty]

Spartan, have to agree that skyline is less than awe inspiring.

Looks the same way from I70 as well. The impressive part was that the entire DT was pretty filled in and there wasn't any "holes" anywhere, but the size isn't overwhelming by any means. Size isn't everything though (I'm talking about buildings here!). Sometimes I wish people would acknowledge that a little more often.

[bchris02]

Looks the same way from I70 as well. The impressive part was that the entire DT was pretty filled in and there wasn't any "holes" anywhere, but the size isn't overwhelming by any means. Size isn't everything though (I'm talking about buildings here!). Sometimes I wish people would acknowledge that a little more often.

I agree. Indianapolis and San Antonio are similar in that regard. They both have rather lackluster skylines but they have excellent urban bones. DC has no skyline for crying out loud yet its more urban than about any other American city with the exception of New York, Boston, and Chicago.

Anyways, love this development. This is definitely a "hard to believe this is OKC" type of development. The standard is definitely increasing.

[ljbab728]

TIF money approved for three downtown Oklahoma City construction projects | News OK

The city council also approved $3 million in tax increment financing to Indianapolis-based Milhaus Development, which is planning to build a 327-unit apartment complex at NW 10 and Shartel in Midtown.

[Pete]

This project was just approved by the Downtown Design Review Committee, with a few minor items continued to the February meeting, pending demolition permit and a variance from the Board of Adjustment on a setback issue (which the committee was fine with; just outside their authority).

[catch22]

What were the items?

[Urban Pioneer]

1 & 2 were approved. 3, 4, & 5 were continued.

There was some concern and discussion about the amount of garage facing 11th street.

[Mississippi Blues]

I'm not 100% sure if Jeff is the one that runs the Oklahoma City Streetcar page on Facebook, but on it they said that the developers credited the streetcar route with being a prime motivator behind the decision to go ahead with this project.

[BoulderSooner]

I will also note that this project was already modified as a direct result of the 1201 N. Francis Apartments MidtownR project. The garage was moved further east and the row of apts that were just east of the garage were moved to the west side along Francis all the way to the 11th and Francis corner

[BoulderSooner]

I will also say. That 11th is a good street for the garage in that it doesn't go through to classen and likely never will

Hopefully a future project on the physians building parking lot will use 11th for car access as well

[catch22]

I'm not 100% sure if Jeff is the one that runs the Oklahoma City Streetcar page on Facebook, but on it they said that the developers credited the streetcar route with being a prime motivator behind the decision to go ahead with this project.

It would not surprise me one bit. This project is only a 2 block walk away from Bricktown, CBD, Auto-Alley, etc. with the streetcar.

Just wait till the track are in the ground, we will see quite a few more developments I am sure!