Convention Center

[Pete]

^

They will build one near the convention center, the consultants aren't showing one here because it's outside their scope in MAPS 3.

[HOT ROD]

"She anticipates a hotelier will be selected by early fall"

Anyone else hoping for a DoubleTree? Man, those warm cookies are great.

I'm hopeful for a Flagship Marriott hotel (since OKC no longer has one). I'd also love a Hyatt Regency flagship or a Starwood brand; but IMO it needs to be a flagship hotel from a top brand. We can get DoubleTree elsewhere in downtown.

[Pete]

Reminder we already have 4 finalists for the hotel:

#	Entity	Flag	Rooms	Total Cost	Public Cost	Notes
1	Omni	Omni	600	$190.2	$70.5	$119.7 in equity; no debt. Remainder is public.
2	Marcus	Hilton	600	$210.0	$63 to $84	Operates the Skirvin; private equity 10-15%; private financing 50-55%
3	Matthew	Westin	600	$180.0	$50 to $90?	$90 private debt; $40 private equity; $50 private financing
4	Mortenson	Hyatt	600	$200.0	$80 to $120	Public investment of 40-60%

[HOT ROD]

I thought they were going to seek new applications since the site is different.

Also, 600 rooms is far too low. We need at least 800-1000. Let's think big here!

[Pete]

After the site switcheroo it was reported that all the finalists were still interested so I don't think anything has changed.

600 rooms was just the base bid but remember OKC is going to be paying for a big chunk of this hotel so our cost would go up considerable for more rooms.

[ljbab728]

I'm hopeful for a Flagship Marriott hotel (since OKC no longer has one). I'd also love a Hyatt Regency flagship or a Starwood brand; but IMO it needs to be a flagship hotel from a top brand. We can get DoubleTree elsewhere in downtown.

Doubletrees are not normally used for major convention hotels. OKC already has one on Meridian north of the airport.

[stile99]

Doubletrees are not normally used for major convention hotels. OKC already has one on Meridian north of the airport.

That's odd, because I've never stayed at a DoubleTree as just a hotel in and of itself, it has always been in conjunction with a convention of some sort. The Tulsa Convention Center has a DoubleTree across the street, and you don't even have to cross the street to get to it, it's connected via an airwalk. I've been to several conventions in multiple areas/states and DoubleTree used to be my preferred hotel, just not in OKC because they weren't available for the longest time, and the one at the airport really is as you say, not for conventions.

I may be looking for something different for the convention center than what others are looking for, I'm looking for a hotel, not a name. If OMNI wins it, I guarantee the next nearest hotel to the convention center would be the one getting my business. I want people who attend a convention downtown to enjoy their time and want to return, and while I understand everyone's experiences are different and some people might love OMNI, my experience with them hasn't left me looking forward to another.

[jccouger]

That's odd, because I've never stayed at a DoubleTree as just a hotel in and of itself, it has always been in conjunction with a convention of some sort. The Tulsa Convention Center has a DoubleTree across the street, and you don't even have to cross the street to get to it, it's connected via an airwalk. I've been to several conventions in multiple areas/states and DoubleTree used to be my preferred hotel, just not in OKC because they weren't available for the longest time, and the one at the airport really is as you say, not for conventions.

I may be looking for something different for the convention center than what others are looking for, I'm looking for a hotel, not a name. If OMNI wins it, I guarantee the next nearest hotel to the convention center would be the one getting my business. I want people who attend a convention downtown to enjoy their time and want to return, and while I understand everyone's experiences are different and some people might love OMNI, my experience with them hasn't left me looking forward to another.

Was it just a customer service issue, or did you just not like the room?

[David]

i don't understand this city sometimes, where is the garage parking? We put up so many garages near the elementary school in the CBD but we put up NONE at the Convention Center? .... Come On OKC - build garages WHERE the garages are needed

There's actually a lot of garage parking in those images, far more than the surface parking to the south. Under the convention center, under the hotel, and a five level garage butting up against Shields:

[Urbanized]

...Never mind that the super vast majority of people using the facility are local, attending local events. No matter how great our convention center is we will never host the Texas Physical Therapy Association or Texas Propane Gas Association. We could host the NCAA Gymnastics Championship though (if the new CC had an arena).

Most of this is grossly inaccurate. The Cox Center hosts a pretty substantial number of statewide and even national conferences, and miss out on many, many more we would be a shoo-in for but for the limitations of the current facilities. Once this building is in place we will enjoy far more city-wides, which is an industry term for events that book large numbers and blocks of rooms in hotels throughout the metro.

Regarding NCAA tournaments such as gymnastics, wrestling and volleyball (as examples) we don't need an attached arena to host them, and absolutely WILL host those events. In fact, some of them are essentially in holding patterns and will formally book this building as soon as it starts to come out of the ground.

OKC is considered a prime host market for collegiate sports, and wildly successful events like the recent NCAA Wrestling Championship only reinforce that. The wrestling event, by the way, was booked only because they overlooked facilities requirements, specifically because the NCAA badly wanted the event to be held in OKC. When the new building is finished the NCAA plans to make OKC a regular stop for that event. We could book volleyball tomorrow, but for issues with the Cox, including not having the correct clearance below light fixtures and not enough clear span.

With the new cc and the existing Chesapeake arena we will ABSOLUTELY be a beyond-adequate host site for mat sports and other NCAA events, and we ABSOLUTELY will get them. This isn't speculation; I know this first-hand.

[stile99]

Was it just a customer service issue, or did you just not like the room?

100% customer service, but I wouldn't exactly say "just" a customer service issue. It was more of a billed my card for the room, then a couple months later there was another charge on my card for around $22. When I called the hotel, I was told it was for taxes and they couldn't credit the amount. I said no, I'm looking at my reservation and my bill right now, it clearly shows X as the room charge, Y as the taxes, and Z as the total, which is what I paid. Then they changed their story and said it was for a 'room upgrade', which I did not get. If I had upgraded (which I did not), why is the charge not happening until a couple months later? We went back and forth and I very much got the impression I was supposed to say "Aw heck, it's only $20, I'll just pay it", but I made it clear I wasn't falling for that. It wasn't until I let them know I'd dispute it with my bank and suddenly the charge that they could not under any circumstances ever reverse, they decided they could credit.

And they did. For one penny less than the charge. I'd have to dig out my statements to see the amount, but it was something like $22.12, and they credited $22.11. My bank allows me to dispute partial charges, so I disputed the $22.12, told them I was disputing $0.01 of it, and pointed to the $22.11 credit as the reason. Unfortunately I'm sure the bank did what I wasn't going to do and said aw heck, it's just a penny, we'll eat it, but I really hope OMNI got a chargeback fee.

When I go to a hotel, for any reason, be that a convention, business trip, or just to relax, I'm not looking to play this type of game, so OMNI is on my naughty list. I'm quite certain this all resulted from some strange burp in their billing system, and had I spoken with someone with two brain cells to rub together it would have been handled much better. The fact that it happened doesn't really bother me that much, it is the way they handled it.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Seattle's Convention Center is Growing - WSCC Addition

[Rover]

Most of this is grossly inaccurate. The Cox Center hosts a pretty substantial number of statewide and even national conferences, and miss out on many, many more we would be a shoo-in for but for the limitations of the current facilities. Once this building is in place we will enjoy far more city-wides, which is an industry term for events that book large numbers and blocks of rooms in hotels throughout the metro.

Regarding NCAA tournaments such as gymnastics, wrestling and volleyball (as examples) we don't need an attached arena to host them, and absolutely WILL host those events. In fact, some of them are essentially in holding patterns and will formally book this building as soon as it starts to come out of the ground.

OKC is considered a prime host market for collegiate sports, and wildly successful events like the recent NCAA Wrestling Championship only reinforce that. The wrestling event, by the way, was booked only because they overlooked facilities requirements, specifically because the NCAA badly wanted the event to be held in OKC. When the new building is finished the NCAA plans to make OKC a regular stop for that event. We could book volleyball tomorrow, but for issues with the Cox, including not having the correct clearance below light fixtures and not enough clear span.

With the new cc and the existing Chesapeake arena we will ABSOLUTELY be a beyond-adequate host site for mat sports and other NCAA events, and we ABSOLUTELY will get them. This isn't speculation; I know this first-hand.

Thanks for bringing real information and facts instead of propaganda and ideology.

[jerrywall]

Seattle's Convention Center is Growing - WSCC Addition

I like all that open glass/natural lighting in that design. The paramount sign across the street though...I think Freud would have a strong opinion on that.

[ljbab728]

When I go to a hotel, for any reason, be that a convention, business trip, or just to relax, I'm not looking to play this type of game, so OMNI is on my naughty list. I'm quite certain this all resulted from some strange burp in their billing system, and had I spoken with someone with two brain cells to rub together it would have been handled much better. The fact that it happened doesn't really bother me that much, it is the way they handled it.

I've had many years of experience with hotels of every description all over the world and, unfortunately, those kind of things do happen. It is not unique with Omni. I just had a bad experience with Gaylord Opryland where someone arrived to check in and found that their reservation had been totally cancelled for a reason they could not explain. Fortunately they were proactive in handling the situation. Every hotel can be different even if they are part of the same chain.

[Pete]

OKCTalk - Latest plans for convention center revealed

[Pete]

Areas of interest:

• Broadway would be relocated 200 feet to the east between SW 4th and SW 6th.
• A "Potential Hotel" is shown directly east of Broadway in addition to the proposed convention hotel to the north
• A skybridge connection to the convention hotel is being considered
• A large parking garage -- which is not currently funded as a part of this project -- is shown as an option over the loading dock area facing the relocated Broadway Avenue

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
Not usually a fan of sky bridges, but before people start sharpening their swords on that particular topic it should be pointed out that in this case it is largely driven by the catering agreement that will without question exist between the convention hotelier and the CC.

[Pete]

^

That makes sense.

[Teo9969]

A skybridge between a convention hotel and a convention center absolutely makes sense. I think you could even convince Just the Facts of that one. The biggest argument being that there will very likely be convention facilities in the hotel on the second floor that pertain to the same facilities in the convention center on the 2nd floor. Generally in the form of meeting rooms, ballrooms etc. etc.

[Teo9969]

So it's pretty clear to me now that in addition to the Cox Center becoming a giant, better version of the Sony Center in Berlin, and that REHCO basically needs to just steal the blueprints for the Sony Center in Berlin and build it right on top of their super-block.

Literally I can't think of a better setup for OKC if those 2 superblocks + MBG East are developed correctly. It could be special on a world-wide scale in terms of Urban Development. And it would make a convention in OKC special, because 2 parks, an arena that hosts a professional franchise, and hotels/eateries/retail/entertainment galore would be right at their fingertips. And it would make the transportation hub perfect.

I know that *today* the site where the convention center sits is not necessarily a great site for a convention center. But it absolutely can become one if we do justice to the nearby important sites.

I just hope the city and the private developers here have the great good sense to open our pocket books and spend the money the area deserves.

[Laramie]

Don't know plans for the present Cox Convention Center site (old Myriad); if it will become a part of a massive future convention center complex (2020-2022) or if they will redevelop the site for something else. The Chesapeake Energy Arena sits poised to be included in those plans as the CCC site and the new convention center sandwich the Peake.

Oklahoma City has the potential to really do something big in this area. Could there be plans post 2020 for more hotel developments in that area?

[David]

if it will become a part of a massive future convention center complex (2020-2022)

Well, hopefully not as that would make absolutely zero sense. We're already building a brand new convention center just slightly to the south, building an even newer one as a replacement for the Cox would be a titanic waste of money. It would be a pretty poor spot for a convention center annex, too, nobody wants to run a convention with a half-mile of separation in the middle.

[Eric]

After the site switcheroo it was reported that all the finalists were still interested so I don't think anything has changed.

600 rooms was just the base bid but remember OKC is going to be paying for a big chunk of this hotel so our cost would go up considerable for more rooms.

I agree that 600 is too low to be a game changer and not worth investing millions by the city. It is only a 50% bigger than the Sheraton and nothing is particularly unique about any of those flags. It just seems like a bad investment that really won't pay all that much in dividends.

On the flip side, many of the conventions/events that you mentioned were sporting related events. I'm sure there are others, but I would imagine those are some of the largest. Would a huge convention hotel really be that necessary when virtually all the attendants are making their own travel arrangements (ie they can stay wherever they want)?

I just returned from an event where we booked 1,400 rooms at the Gaylord Opryland (the largest hotel that is not a casino in the county). The fact that all the attendees were in the same hotel was rather important so they chose a venue that could handle it. Few in the country can handle us. For those magnitude of events OKC will continue to be overlooked because they just don't have the facilities. Prior to this event, it was generally held in Orlando (a hundred miles from corp HQ) and next year it will be in Vegas because it keeps growing. I don't think they necessarily wanted to but it became a necessity to have it Vegas because no where else could they handle the capacity. That's where I think OKC is missing the mark. Just building another hotel is not a game changing, public finance requiring event in my mind.

Aside from the fact that I generally don't agree with public financing of competition to pre-existing businesses, I just don't think this hotel is "enough" to warrant that level of support from the city.

[Urbanized]

I've posted this before, but once again want to point out that most people have an incorrect perception and/or general ignorance regarding what a convention center hotel's function is, how the required number of rooms is determined, and why the City wants to participate in the financing (it's not for the reasons you are thinking). And when I say ignorance, I don't mean that in an insulting way; only stating that they are generally unaware regarding how the industry works.

People get so caught up in this bigger/better/more argument or other issues like the aforementioned "public financing of competition to pre-existing businesses" and become so entrenched that they fail to legitimately look for and consider answers for the WHY questions that they are asking. I PROMISE YOU, if you speak with experienced hoteliers who are cooperatively involved with the CVB in the booking of conventions, there is ZERO chance they will complain about the building of a convention hotel, or for incentives being used. They VERY much want the CC, and beyond that, they want the CC hotel, which is second in importance only to location when it comes to the successful booking of the CC.

First of all, there is a "goldilocks principle" for convention hotels. They need to have enough rooms to accommodate as many bookings as a property like that would normally draw via its own flag/reservation system, PLUS enough rooms for negotiated convention blocks. Required convention room blocks are usually roughly determined as a percentage of attendees of course, but those blocks are MOSTLY for exhibitors, officials, etc.. Even for very large conventions, the required room blocks are often in the hundreds, not thousands. People think that they are largely for conference attendees, but they simply are not. Sure, some conference attendees choose to stay at the convention hotel, but most of them have reasons for staying elsewhere; loyalty programs, price considerations, etc., etc.. THAT is why other hotels LOVE the idea of a convention center and don't mind the attached hotel; they (especially other downtown properties) get TONS of bookings from the conferences and conventions that would otherwise not be here but for a properly-configured and properly-functioning CC and CC hotel arrangement.

Build TOO many rooms, however, and you have a problem. By too many I mean anything more than what the flag will bring naturally, combined with industry standard blocks required to book whatever simultaneous events the CC can hold. Anything over that is excess inventory that still requires resources, maintenance, housekeeping, utilities, etc. Excess inventory is also the enemy of other properties, because a CC hotel with excess inventory will drop rates in an attempt to sell. Plus, if the public is participating financially in the hotel it can cause serious ROI problems. Hence, "goldilocks principle."

Finally, regarding WHY the City would want to participate financially, it is - simply put - to be able to force the hotel to make deals on room blocks. If the City is helping finance the deal, they are a partner, they have leverage, and they can stipulate that the CVB can get set-aside blocks at below market rate. This is critically important in luring events. It is a basic part of the negotiation. Right now is a perfect example; the CVB is regularly losing conference business because OKC's hotel business is so strong, and so they can't get discounted blocks. The hotels are fully booked, and often at or near rack rate. Currently, organic demand allows them to charge premium rates and remain 90+% full. The demand is so strong right now that a hotelier would be crazy to tie up hundreds of rooms at a deeply discounted rate just to help the CVB. Sure you want to help, but not at that cost. However, if there is public participation in the financing of a hotel, the operator HAS to discount, and the city's conference/convention penetration increases greatly, and other hoteliers benefit because a high tide floats all boats.

Anyway, hope that makes sense to anyone who bothers to read it with an open mind.