Convention Center

[Pete]

The only surface lots shown above are where the center would be eventually expanded.

[Spartan]

Yes, we're aware that we're being held hostage (by parkside parking) to fund even more of this.

By the way, I'd like to remind everyone that when they wanted you to vote YES on MAPS 3, they promised that the CC's park-front side would be wrapped in mixed-use. I would just like to remind everyone of that, because you know, I don't see any mixed-use anywhere in this. I see a convention center and a parking lot directly flanking the park and killing its eastern periphery.

Why would anyone want to go to a MAPS 3 Central Park to stare up at a CC, when you can go to the Myriad Gardens and also stare up at a CC.

Remember how we used to talk about how superblocks were bad? This thing needs to be pushed back against Shields.

We have gone backwards. Maybe 1 step forward, 3 steps backwards.

[Pete]

By the way, I'd like to remind everyone that when they wanted you to vote YES on MAPS 3, they promised that the CC's park-front side would be wrapped in mixed-use. I would just like to remind everyone of that, because you know, I don't see any mixed-use anywhere in this. I see a convention center and a parking lot directly flanking the park and killing its eastern periphery.

They never made any such promise.

In fact, we didn't even know where the cc was going to be until very recently.

[Zuplar]

Is it just me or does the design seem like something that was considered modern in the late 80's & 90's? Not a fan at all.

[David]

/shrug, it looks like a lot of convention centers that I have been to for conferences and conventions and whatnot.

On a different note:

[Pete]

These are just massing concepts at this point.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the exact architecture as it will only be finalized once they choose a layout and figure out the parking.

[HangryHippo]

Is it just me or does the design seem like something that was considered modern in the late 80's & 90's? Not a fan at all.

This was my initial reaction as well, but I think in the Oklahoman article it states that these are just pictures showcasing ideas and not even close to final renderings.

[Spartan]

Here's the problem with that: Where do final renderings come from?

They never made any such promise.

In fact, we didn't even know where the cc was going to be until very recently.

That's not true.

[baralheia]

UGH. Surface parking! The ideas for the convention center itself are great - I think I like City View the best, but none of the building options are really "bad". But it's probably going to be YEARS before the Convention Center gets expanded into that parking lot - probably at least a decade, if not more. I know surface parking is cheap, low-maintenance, and super easy to clear for future construction, but we really should be holding ourselves to a higher standard. Maybe a simple grassy park south of the convention center? Or a food truck court or some other simple public venue that's not a parking lot? Then put a HUGE parking garage on the OG&E Data Center lot. They are still donating that lot to the City, right?

[Spartan]

I'd be curious what city code says about surface parking lots in downtown.

I think at a minimum our MAPS 3 projects should be up to code, lol.

[Bellaboo]

I'd be curious what city code says about surface parking lots in downtown.

I think at a minimum our MAPS 3 projects should be up to code, lol.

I don't know but there's a crap ton of them adjoining West of Chesapeake Arena.

[mugofbeer]

[QUOTE=Just the facts;941790]Fort Worth study recommends 1,400 more Convention Center-area hotel rooms - Fortworthbusiness.com: News

Sorry, but I actually had to laugh at that news story. I could swear I read those exact same words in the Oklahoman a few years ago. These consulting groups are just like arms dealers sellinge latest weapons to every country using the fear that their neighboring country will out-militarize them.
QUOTE]

Or, it may be that to maximize the use of that convention center, they need additional downtown lodging. The article states the previous remodel and hotel construction has paid off nicely. This simply calls for a plan for new investment - a concept that you truly don't seem to understand.

[Just the facts]

Or, it may be that to maximize the use of that convention center, they need additional downtown lodging. The article states the previous remodel and hotel construction has paid off nicely. This simply calls for a plan for new investment - a concept that you truly don't seem to understand.

I understand it completely. The consulting groups go to City X and say build more. Then they go to City Y and say build more, because City X is building more and you will be left behind. Then they go to City Z and say build more because you have to compete with City X and Y. Then they go back to City X and say build more because City Z just passed you.

Never mind that the super vast majority of people using the facility are local, attending local events. No matter how great our convention center is we will never host the Texas Physical Therapy Association or Texas Propane Gas Association. We could host the NCAA Gymnastics Championship though (if the new CC had an arena).

[Laramie]

Or, it may be that to maximize the use of that convention center, they need additional downtown lodging. The article states the previous remodel and hotel construction has paid off nicely. This simply calls for a plan for new investment - a concept that you truly don't seem to understand.

He doesn't want to understand because he too busy looking for things to critique. Turn the projects over to JTF and they would never get off the drawing board let alone completed.

Those who didn't favor the convention center & conference hotel, all of a sudden we hear from all of the experts with their two cents on how simple this could be done.

Fort Worth is ahead of us in this game; we can certainly keep an eye on their progress and concerns as they grow their convention industry. The best is yet to come for Oklahoma City.

[Urban Pioneer]

It would be cool if they would use that GIANT flat roof for rainwater collection for the park and the park's pond.

The park has a rainwater collection system designed into it. Such collection might inundate it. If it is running a deficit though, that would be an easy way to regularly replenish it for irrigation purposes.

[jerrywall]

It would be cool if they would use that GIANT flat roof for rainwater collection for the park and the park's pond.

The park has a rainwater collection system designed into it. Such collection might inundate it. If it is running a deficit though, that would be an easy way to regularly replenish it for irrigation purposes.

Along that note, I had been thinking it would be cool if there were green elements incorporated into the plans, such as with the convention center in downtown Pittsburgh.

[LakeEffect]

I'd be curious what city code says about surface parking lots in downtown.

I think at a minimum our MAPS 3 projects should be up to code, lol.

They are permitted by right, as long as landscape and visual blocking meet the downtown code.

[Spartan]

He doesn't want to understand because he too busy looking for things to critique. Turn the projects over to JTF and they would never get off the drawing board let alone completed.

Those who didn't favor the convention center & conference hotel, all of a sudden we hear from all of the experts with their two cents on how simple this could be done.

Fort Worth is ahead of us in this game; we can certainly keep an eye on their progress and concerns as they grow their convention industry. The best is yet to come for Oklahoma City.

I hope you aren't suggesting that we need exactly what Ft. Worth has. If you pan out and look at the big picture, you'll notice one of the world's busiest airports will soon be connected by rail to their convention center.

I'm all for the boosterism and cheering OKC on. I want OKC to have the best possible convention center. For OKC, that won't be the exact same convention center that exists somewhere else. I want us to have a facility that is tailored toward our needs, and I am still not seeing any move in that direction. I am seeing continued progress toward plunking down a standard cookie cutter convention center on the park irregardless of context, unique opportunities, or our actual needs.

If we were doing this right, we wouldn't lay waste to the park's east side. We would make that east park front area a living, breathing neighborhood. It can be done by dropping the CC back and having mixed-use development, hotels, restaurants, etc on the park. We don't need a 1,400 room hotel that will take us through bankruptcy. We need the right size hotel for us, and the volume of guests that we can bring in from the smaller WRWA, which is probably 700-800 rooms.

This convention center scale should match the scale of WRWA, which is a really good example for how we can do a great project. WRWA is always the nicest airport I ever fly in and out of, which is saying a lot. I'll connect in Atlanta, Dallas, or Chicago - and it's night and day when you land in OKC. We also didn't make the airport bigger than it needs to be, which we could have easily done. Since we are a growing city, we could have overbuilt it, and then you'd have to traverse much greater distances in the concourse. But as it is, it's just right.

[mkjeeves]

I'd be curious what city code says about surface parking lots in downtown.

I think at a minimum our MAPS 3 projects should be up to code, lol.

Generally speaking, code requires off street parking for every development. For use unit:

8300.68. Spectator Sports and Entertainment: High Impact. Establishments or places engaged in the provision of cultural, entertainment, athletic and other events to spectators as well as providing space for social or fraternal gatherings. These uses are conducted in open facilities or within an enclosed building with a capacity of more than 500 people, which may generate significant noise, odor, traffic or other impacts, and include retail sales, storage facilities and other activities incidental to the operation. Typical uses include drag strips, racetracks, fairgrounds, rodeo grounds, large exhibition halls, sports stadiums and arenas, and convention centers and trade expositions.

The standard is "director approval" for number of spaces of off street parking required. There is no requirement for garage vs. surface in the code.

However:
10600.3. Off-Street Parking Exemptions: The erection, expansion or use of any principal building or secondary structure located in the following districts shall not be required to provide minimum off-street parking:

A. Fringe Parking Overlay District.
B.NB Neighborhood Business District.
C. DBD Downtown Business District.
D. DTD-1 Downtown Transitional District Limited.
E. DTD-2 Downtown Transitional District General.
F. C-CBD Central Business District.
G. NC Neighborhood Conservation District, Tract 5, as defined in Appendix A of this chapter.
H. UD Urban Design Overlay, except west of North Classen Boulevard.
I. BC Bricktown Core.
J. The Farmers Market District of the Scenic River Overlay Design District (SRODD).


https://www.municode.com/library/ok/..._ARTXOREPALOAC

In other words, they can do just about whatever they want. In the absence of a lot more masstrans than we have planned or funded, it would be stupid to build it without room to park the people who are going to use it the most and drive to the location, residents of the burbs and surrounding communities.

[Just the facts]

Those who didn't favor the convention center & conference hotel, all of a sudden we hear from all of the experts with their two cents on how simple this could be done.

The problem is I am actually for a new convention center. I guess some people need to be lied to (convention center arms race and pie in the sky economic projections) in order to get them on-board. I am not one of those people. I am on-board because it is okay to have nice civic things for no other reason than they are nice.

[David]

Article from Steve: 2020 is seen as debut for Oklahoma City's new convention center | News OK

Regarding parking:

Cathy O'Connor, president of the Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City, advised the MAPS citizens oversight committee the MAPS 3 convention center budget does not include funding for parking.

“If the city desires to build parking that is somehow a part of this project, whether under the building or elsewhere, the city will have to look to other sources,” O'Connor said. “It could be other MAPS money, it could be through tax increment financing, or it could be done with bonds through COTPA (the Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority).”

There is also a little detail about the hotel:

Negotiations, meanwhile, have resumed with hotel companies bidding to build a conference hotel of more than 500 rooms between the convention center, the Chesapeake Energy Arena and overlooking the new park.

O'Connor said term sheets are being finalized with the hoteliers and more information might be requested in April. She anticipates a hotelier will be selected by early fall, with a final deal pending approval by the Oklahoma City Council.

[Pete]

^

One of the big reasons for creating the new TIF districts was to help fund the convention center parking, as that was not budgeted in MAPS (or anywhere else).

[stile99]

"She anticipates a hotelier will be selected by early fall"

Anyone else hoping for a DoubleTree? Man, those warm cookies are great.

[Laramie]

I hope you aren't suggesting that we need exactly what Ft. Worth has. If you pan out and look at the big picture, you'll notice one of the world's busiest airports will soon be connected by rail to their convention center.

Suggest? I suggest we plan for the future and stop half stepping...

Now as far as an Omni, I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed. Hope we can do better than Omni. We only had about four hotels that responded to the city's request and each talked about a 600 room hotel.

We don't have a quality luxury Hyatt in OKC; it would be a feather in our cap to wave that flag for the convention center conference hotel. Similar to the Hyatt in one of our favorite cities Spartan, KANSAS CITY!

[HOT ROD]

i don't understand this city sometimes, where is the garage parking? We put up so many garages near the elementary school in the CBD but we put up NONE at the Convention Center? .... Come On OKC - build garages WHERE the garages are needed