First National Center

[Pete]

It will be interesting to see if Clayco's proposal for the land south of the OG&E Tower includes a hotel.

[bombermwc]

I believe the OG&E location was looking to pursue one to help serve as conference space for OG&E and whatnot. Sort of a weird relationship fi you ask me. Ask someone else to build a second tower to house the hotel/conference space that you'll request to use so you don't have to maintain it. I mean I guess that way the room makes money when it's not in use by OG&E, assuming someone else IS renting it, but the ROI on adding a floor or two of conference rooms seems to be a lot better to me than some outsourced model like that...it's just strange. The hotel is really the same way....there are so many options (and will be more), why do this weird thing where they want some sort of un-owned partnership with that developer.

Anyway, I'm astonished that the new FNC owners have been able to find buyers like this. If the buyers are out there now, why where they not out there in 2012? If they're willing to fork over 20million after a 5million sale-off, it just seems CRAZY! Especially if they're doing this knowing that they are going to have to re-develop the thing. If it all holds out, I'm glad parking is going to become part of it (toss all that non-historic ugly crap). If you're a hotel, you HAVE to have it or people simply wont stay there. I would be concerned about the new buyers continuing the cheap road to renovation though. If they can see the thing was sold for 5 and they're having to fork over 20+, there's going to be a much larger radar of cost focused on any effort. Especially if it's going to be one that requires gutting out the piece of the property (albeit the ugliest) that is actually making money.

[bchris02]

Obviously there are. I would think this would be a higher end flag like what we are expecting for the convention center hotel, but obviously I know nothing about it.

If converting FNC to a world-class hotel means scrapping the convention center hotel then so be it. FNC has the potential to be a very special place for Oklahoma City, possibly the city's "crown jewel" hotel.

[Urbanized]

First of all, you could not put the same type of hotel in there that you could build ground-up next to the convention center. A hotel in that building would probably fall somewhere between the Colcord and Skirvin (or even more upscale, which would be great), but with more rooms. A true convention hotel is a completely different animal.

That doesn't have any impact on landing a brand for the convention center. Second, scrapping plans for a true convention hotel adjacent to the convention center would severely limit chances for success for the most expensive of our MAPS 3 investments. Tell me again why that is in any way OK?

This is not a zero sum game; gaining a great hotel in FNC should have little or no effect on getting a great flag to participate in a convention hotel.

[warreng88]

If converting FNC to a world-class hotel means scrapping the convention center hotel then so be it. FNC has the potential to be a very special place for Oklahoma City, possibly the city's "crown jewel" hotel.

Yeah, I have to agree with Urbanized on this and I don't think we are going to be pitting the two against each other. I would guess this one would be closer to getting a flag than the CC hotel since there is no plan in place right now for the CC hotel. I would love to see a Four Seasons or JW in this one and an Omni or W in the CC hotel. As Pete stated, there is plenty of demand for hotel rooms in the core, especially higher end so I think we can sustain both.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
100% agree

[bchris02]

Yeah, I have to agree with Urbanized on this and I don't think we are going to be pitting the two against each other. I would guess this one would be closer to getting a flag than the CC hotel since there is no plan in place right now for the CC hotel. I would love to see a Four Seasons or JW in this one and an Omni or W in the CC hotel. As Pete stated, there is plenty of demand for hotel rooms in the core, especially higher end so I think we can sustain both.

I was thinking Four Seasons myself for FNC. Ritz Carlton might be another possibility.

[warreng88]

My only fear is that when the time comes to do incentives for this, the incentives for the CC hotel will suffer because they will probably be fairly close together. I know Shadid is opposed to incentives for the CC hotel. I will be interested to see what his thoughts on incentives for FNC will be.

[Teo9969]

Anyway, I'm astonished that the new FNC owners have been able to find buyers like this. If the buyers are out there now, why where they not out there in 2012? If they're willing to fork over 20million after a 5million sale-off, it just seems CRAZY! Especially if they're doing this knowing that they are going to have to re-develop the thing. If it all holds out, I'm glad parking is going to become part of it (toss all that non-historic ugly crap). If you're a hotel, you HAVE to have it or people simply wont stay there. I would be concerned about the new buyers continuing the cheap road to renovation though. If they can see the thing was sold for 5 and they're having to fork over 20+, there's going to be a much larger radar of cost focused on any effort. Especially if it's going to be one that requires gutting out the piece of the property (albeit the ugliest) that is actually making money.

OKC is *still* a risky investment for outside investors, but it's made up a lot of headway since 2012 mainly in terms of showing that the growth here is sustainable. Any city can have a good year, but OKC has made its most serious strides in the last 5 and every year has brought increasingly bigger/better development as more "infrastructure" has been put in place to ensure success of these developments.

For instance, the amount of hotels that an area can sustain increases with the amount of residents and businesses in an area. Well, in the last 2 years, how much has OKC's downtown housing stock grown? How many more businesses have moved into the area? It's been a significant amount.

[Pete]

Even though the County Assessor shows a sales price of $5.3 million, we don't know all the details of the transaction.

Perhaps there was an assumption of debt or liens on the property.

We do know that when this transfer was made that Yashouafar did not openly market it or hold any sort of bid solicitation.

Also, due to Yashouafar's well-earned reputation, the property was simply not as valuable in his hands. I'm sure people were very wary of entering into contract with him, especially since up until it transferred it looked like it was headed for foreclosure and other legal problems.

[gopokes88]

I was thinking Four Seasons myself for FNC. Ritz Carlton might be another possibility.

We land a Ritz and I'll be doing back flips. Do you know who doesn't have a Ritz? Seattle, Portland, Kansas City, Memphis, Nashville, Houston, Austin, SA, Detroit, Pittsburgh, San Diego.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but dang that's a jump up for this city.

[Plutonic Panda]

We land a Ritz and I'll be doing back flips. Do you know who doesn't have a Ritz? Seattle, Portland, Kansas City, Memphis, Nashville, Houston, Austin, SA, Detroit, Pittsburgh, San Diego.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but dang that's a jump up for this city.

Does Charlotte have a Ritz? I think a friend told me about it a few months ago, but I can't quite remember.

Also, isn't Omaha getting a Ritz?

[gopokes88]

Does Charlotte have a Ritz? I think a friend told me about it a few months ago, but I can't quite remember.

Also, isn't Omaha getting a Ritz?

Locations Map of The Ritz-Carlton Hotels & Resorts

[Plutonic Panda]

Orlando, Cleveland, Charlotte, St. Louis and New Orleans have them. I realize those cities are years ahead of OKC, but they aren't that far off and seeing as cities like Houston and Chicago don't even have them, it's clear they have more to their location strategies than just size of the city.

I noticed they are also in secluded areas as well. I don't see them in any cities that are smaller than OKC though except for the high-tourist areas.

Yeah, that'd be amazing if we landed one. Hell, I'm excited about the 21c hotel that is coming, so if got a Ritz, that'd be incredible!

[bluedogok]

First of all, you could not put the same type of hotel in there that you could build ground-up next to the convention center. A hotel in that building would probably fall somewhere between the Colcord and Skirvin (or even more upscale, which would be great), but with more rooms. A true convention hotel is a completely different animal.

That doesn't have any impact on landing a brand for the convention center. Second, scrapping plans for a true convention hotel adjacent to the convention center would severely limit chances for success for the most expensive of our MAPS 3 investments. Tell me again why that is in any way OK?

This is not a zero sum game; gaining a great hotel in FNC should have little or no effect on getting a great flag to participate in a convention hotel.

I agree, a boutique hotel typically enhances the hotel market and wouldn't affect a conventional center type hotel as they typically serve different market sectors.

[HOT ROD]

bluedog and urbanized, I was thinking the same thing. FNC probably will be a boutique operation and not get a flag. But this isn't a bad thing, think Peabody hotel in Memphis. As Chris stated, this could be OKC's crowning jewel of a hotel and would NOT impact the convention center hotel(s). In fact, having a signature boutique 'historic' hotel actually boosts the city hotel market cachet as they tend to force the flags to up their game in order to 'compete'.

This was one reason why I was sort of hoping that the Skirvin would have not got a Hilton flag (or if it has to have a Hilton flag, then fly the Conrad brand for exclusivity). But I do understand why we got Hilton since at the time we didn't have many full service flags, and only two were (and still are) downtown.

[zookeeper]

bluedog and urbanized, I was thinking the same thing. FNC probably will be a boutique operation and not get a flag. But this isn't a bad thing, think Peabody hotel in Memphis. As Chris stated, this could be OKC's crowning jewel of a hotel and would NOT impact the convention center hotel(s). In fact, having a signature boutique 'historic' hotel actually boosts the city hotel market cachet as they tend to force the flags to up their game in order to 'compete'.

This was one reason why I was sort of hoping that the Skirvin would have not got a Hilton flag (or if it has to have a Hilton flag, then fly the Conrad brand for exclusivity). But I do understand why we got Hilton since at the time we didn't have many full service flags, and only two were (and still are) downtown.

Well said, Hot Rod.

[SouthsideSooner]

I had a nice conversation with one of the Council members the other night and was told to expect an announcement regarding the FNC within the next 30 days and very possibly before the end of the month. I couldn't pry any more details out of them but they seemed both pleased and excited as to what the news would be.

[HOT ROD]

very nice

[lasomeday]

very nice

Steve kept mentioning it on Mondays chat. I was hoping he knew something.

[bchris02]

Also, isn't Omaha getting a Ritz?

I did a search and couldn't find anything about Omaha getting a Ritz. Do you have a link? I agree with you though it doesn't necessarily depend on the size of the city. I'm not getting my hopes up but FNC is a perfect fit for it.

Anyways, I can't wait for this to be announced.

[Pete]

I do think we are getting close.

We have a motivated seller and a bunch of very good offers.

I'm sure the only delay has been trying to get a handle on the incentives piece before anyone is willing to close.

[Jeepnokc]

bluedog and urbanized, I was thinking the same thing. FNC probably will be a boutique operation and not get a flag. But this isn't a bad thing, think Peabody hotel in Memphis. As Chris stated, this could be OKC's crowning jewel of a hotel and would NOT impact the convention center hotel(s). In fact, having a signature boutique 'historic' hotel actually boosts the city hotel market cachet as they tend to force the flags to up their game in order to 'compete'.

This was one reason why I was sort of hoping that the Skirvin would have not got a Hilton flag (or if it has to have a Hilton flag, then fly the Conrad brand for exclusivity). But I do understand why we got Hilton since at the time we didn't have many full service flags, and only two were (and still are) downtown.

The Ambassador in Tulsa just joined Marriott's Autograph Collection which I am assuming gets them basically national exposure and listing/booking on Marriott's website while allowing them to keep their brand under Marriott and be a boutique hotel.

[Plutonic Panda]

I did a search and couldn't find anything about Omaha getting a Ritz. Do you have a link? I agree with you though it doesn't necessarily depend on the size of the city. I'm not getting my hopes up but FNC is a perfect fit for it.

Anyways, I can't wait for this to be announced.

I was told Omaha is not getting a Ritz.

[NWOKCGuy]

The Ambassador in Tulsa just joined Marriott's Autograph Collection which I am assuming gets them basically national exposure and listing/booking on Marriott's website while allowing them to keep their brand under Marriott and be a boutique hotel.

I believe all the Ambassadors are joining the Autograph collection. Tulsa first with OKC and (Wichita?) to follow.