SW 104th and May Avenue Construction???

[SoonerDave]

The only thing worse than the fact they plan to build this social abortion 500 feet away from me is the fact that they plan to build a further stripmall type area and call it "Southtown OKC."

If that's not the most patronizing, denigrating, "welcome-to-our-doublewides" name for the place, I'll eat my hat. Lots of people in this area have worked to rid South OKC of this backwoods image, and be darned if some idiot Edmond developer wants to shove it back down our throat.

ARRGGGH. I'm so angry right now I want to spit nails.

I am NOT believing this. P-stinking-UKE.

-SoonerDave

[mranderson]

Maybe it IS a Sams Club and they just put Wal-Mart because Sams is a subsidiary. Or the other possibility is it IS a Wal-Mart and they plan on converting the almost five year old location at 240 and Santa Fe into a Sams. (it opened April 17, 2002)

[SoonerDave]

The TAPP Development entry is specifically listing the SW 104th and May property as a 196,000 SF Super WalMart with other outparcels to come.

That WalMart on Santa Fe has become such a filthy, smelly trashpit that I hate to go in there. And now I have the vision of that coming within *walking* distance.

-SoonerDave
(For a while, I may post as "SimmeringDave")

[BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe]

If you look close at the blueprints you will see:

TLE= Tire and lube express. Seaonal Garden Center, Six truck docks, and a pharmacy drive thru. I have yet to see any of those items at a Sam's. I doubt the 240 will change either. It looks like Wal-Mart is trying to make southside like northside. Every 5 miles there is a supercenter northside.

I think it safe to say this is a done deal. Businesses are not going to give the blueprints to a developer if they do not intend to build. It will probably look something like the Wal-Mart on Santa Fe and Danforth or the one on I-35 and 15th.

Nobody is going to stop it, the only thing any citizen can do is force them to build it with class. If it is going to happen I hope it follows the likes of
Danforth or I-35 and 15th.

I think it is safe to say that Target is building a new store on 119th and Western otherwise Wal-Mart would not be building a store so close to two others.
(Tri-City and 240 are five minutes away from this location.)

See this link and look at the map on page 2, you will see that something is going in next to Westmoore.

http://soonerinvestment.com/pdf_flye...ern-061606.pdf


Only two stores are going to be in excess of 100,000 sf SuperTarget and Wal-Mart.

[jbrown84]

I feel bad for those of you in the area. If we couldn't stop Walmart from ripping out trees and hills next to a lake in Edmond to build their trash, it doesn't bode well for stopping this.

[Dave Cook]

SoonerDave.....

We live off 115th and May and definitely share your pain.

Anything - ANYTHING - besides a stinkin Wal Mart.

[okclee]

This is the worst news I have personally ever read on this forum.

[SoonerDave]

Well, I've contacted a couple of people in our neighborhood, and there is nothing but disdain for this thing. There had been rumors of a SuperTarget for awhile, but no one knew for sure what was going in.

IN my conversations with one neighbor, there are also rumblings of a Barnes and Noble and standalone Starbucks going in along with it, but those are purely speculation at this point.

Well, I've always whined that there aren't any bookstores in my neck of the woods. Talk about the ol' saw of "Be careful what you wish for..." It's coming back to me in spades. There is apparently already talk of some people pulling up stakes and selling out. That may be a bit extreme, but at least I understand their sentiments.

What may not be immediately apparent for those not familiar with this area is that the rear of this social abortion (and I use that term MOST deliberately) will be the first thing staring folks in the face as they back out of their driveway on the N/S streets that parallel May Avenue, extending south from Earlywine Boulevard. This isn't even about cutting down trees or carving up rolling hills; this is about a Wal Mart literally being in walking distance of your front door.

I can just hear the police reports now of pickpockets, purse snatchers, muggers, and general human debris flocking into the neighborhood to escape arrest at 3AM...

This is just, just sickening.

-SimmeringDave

[Easy180]

So basically everyone doesn't want a Walmart in their neighborhood, but will gladly go to someone else's to shop there since these things are packed 24/7??

There is a reason why these are going in all over the place...Big time successes...Many of those you speak to will somehow end up parking their cars in a spot the week it opens

[mranderson]

If you will not accept a Wal-Mart then what WILL you accept? And why?

Keep in mind. Wal-Mart did NOT cause the small businesses to fold. The CONSUMER did. The consumer had a choice. They could have continued to shop the small business person, but elected to shop places like Wal-Mart. Plus. If you think only trailer trash shops there, then you are quite incorrect. I, for one, plus my entire family shop there... And we are FAR from being trailer trash. We are just a small number of people that are well above the trailer trash class. Many like us shop there because we get wealthier by SAVING money... Not wasting it on higher prices for the same thing.

If Wal-Mart wants to build in my neighborhood, then I welcome them with open arms and an open wallet.

[jbrown84]

What may not be immediately apparent for those not familiar with this area is that the rear of this social abortion (and I use that term MOST deliberately) will be the first thing staring folks in the face as they back out of their driveway on the N/S streets that parallel May Avenue, extending south from Earlywine Boulevard. This isn't even about cutting down trees or carving up rolling hills; this is about a Wal Mart literally being in walking distance of your front door.

Yeah I noticed that in the site plan. That's really bad.

Easy, I can tell you that I was vehemently against the Fox Lake Walmart in Edmond and I have yet to spend a dime there, nor has anyone in my family. Also, the Target a mile and a half away seems busier than ever.

[Easy180]

That will change over time jbrown...Once more and more people get over their unofficial boycott and start to go there occasionally to shop for lower prices

Not a huge fan of them either, but there are much worse businesses that can come in than one known for low prices and good value compared to other grocery stores

[Karried]

I'm sorry for you all having this in your neighborhood.... it is upsetting.
We have one a short distance from our house but thank God for SuperTarget.

[SoonerDave]

mranderson, you miss the point entirely.

If you'd read my other postings in this thread, I plainly stated I would have LOVED to have had a SuperTarget or even a nice grocery store - heck, I don't mind the Barnes and Noble - at that corner - because Target - particularly the SuperTarget - keeps up their properties. Period.

Walmart's are built with Instant Slum Concrete. They don't care what their properties look like in five years, because the reliably abandon them. They might wash the windows once every six years. The first WalMart at SW 74th and Penn deteriorated this way just before it moved across the street, deteriorated again, then moved to Santa Fe, and now it's deteriorating. Now it's moving to my neighborhood. I have no desire for a trash truck to move next door.

I don't think I said one time that anyone who shops there is trailer trash. Its the trailer of trash WalMart will allow to be dumped on itself that irritates me.

-SoonerDave

[mranderson]

I read Target. It makes no sense that you would approve Target but not Wal-Mart, regardless of what you say. They are direct competitors.

Frankly, I admire Wal-Mart for knowing their stores grow. The reason the two previous locations moved was due to growth, not deterioration. I can name many stores that deteriorate. Some as fast as they open. An example is Walls. They opened one a mile from my house and it looks bad, and it has only been open a short time. Plus, they carry nothing but junk.

Funny. 7-11 replaces stores in the same way Wal-Mart does, but you do not knock them. Who buys the majority of the old 7-11's? Orientals and Arabs for their convinience stores. That is where you can find the majority of adult magazines. (before you say something dumb, folks, remember I am a magazine distributor). I can easily say knocking Wal-Mart and not 7-11 is hipocritical... Yes. I know there is a big difference in size, however, the concept is the same.

[soonerliberal]

The difference between Target and Walmart is that Target actually keeps their stores in great condition, particularly ones in nicer areas such as Edmond and the suburban southside. I suppose you can consider Target and Walmart direct competitors, except their target demographics are completely different. Walmart goes for the lower middle class, where Target tends to have a higher class demographic.

You can argue the business strategy of Walmart all you want, but the fact that nobody can deny is that Walmart has negative connotations associated with that and believe it or not has an affect on land values of an area. The 7-11 comparison fails on a degree of difference fallacy. 7-11s don't become porn and liquor shops after 10 years time. Walmarts deteriorate rapidly after they are built. 7-11s are locally owned, where Walmarts are not. 7-11s have much more competition than Walmart. The differences go on and on.

Walmart is really facing problems with the NIMBY philosophy, but generally overcome those. My only hope is that they make it a classier one such as Fox Lake or the new Midwest City location.

[jbrown84]

Walmart abandons their big boxes every ten years. Target rebuilds their stores--even ones in lower-income areas like May and NW Highway.

There is no comparison.

[okclee]

If someone can't see the difference between a Wal-Mart and a Target, and for that matter a 7-Eleven. Then there is little need for the discussion on the reasons one wouldn't want a Wal-Mart in there back yard.

[Easy180]

The difference between Target and Walmart is that Target actually keeps their stores in great condition,

After 20 years maybe, but the Targets at 44th & Western and on N May were dumps for years until they finally renovated them

And many do understand the difference of Walmart, Target and 7-11....I just find it a little snobby that most people even in the suburbs shop at superwalmart's, but just want them in someone else's neighborhood and out of theirs

(Not addressed to anyone in particular) Please reply on here when any of your neighbors can't get market value for their home, because potential buyers are concerned about a SuperWalmart at 104th and May...Don't worry the poor will still go to Walmart's closer to home and won't bring all the crime and drugs with them

[SoonerDave]

I'll give you a straight-up reason why the folks on the east side of that Lakeridge addition will almost certainly a property value drop.

If you look at the TAPP layout for the WalMart, you'll see two 30' semi-truck turnaround areas on the south end of the layout. That means for the folks living on the N/S streets just off of May, they'll be greeted by the delightful sounds of trailers off-loading their stuff morning, noon, and night. The backside of the WalMart appears, itself, to be 90 feet from the central traffic artery in the neighborhood (Earlywine Blvd). Tell me a house that might sell for X right now absent that WalMart will sell for the same once that blight is there and folks see a loading dock back there?

As for my area on the west side of the addition, we've got it great ( insert sarcasm); we're a whole 600+ feet from the west edge of the parking lot, and a little over 600 feet from the north face of the building. I suspect we'll be looking at the backside of whatever strip mall goes on the west side, however.

As far as the NIMBY factor goes on WalMarts; the SantaFe WalMart was built in a light industrial area just west of a car lot (Hudiburg); there were/are no existing/established neighborhoods in the area. Lakeridge has been around for more than a decade. When the very first WalMart in the area was built over two decades ago, it was built at the end of an *existing* set of stores, so the retail element was well entrenched. The people who really got an eyeful are those who lived behind where WalMart moved a few years later - directly east across Penn. Years ago, that area was highlighted as the center of a new *business* (not retail) park, (even a hotel, IIRC), but that fizzled and the land stood vacant for years. Then WalMart moved in. If the residential area to the immediate north of them didn't like it, I wouldn't blame them at all.

I'll worry about 7-11's the next time I see someone planning to put one in excess of 170,000 square feet. Other than that, the analogy is DOA. And I reiterate my preference for a SuperTarget; those properties are maintained, and WalMarts simply aren't.

One thing I've already noticed; the proposed size of the Walmart has dropped just in the last week. The first time I visited the TAPP website, it was listed as 190,000 SF; it is now down to 178,000 SF, IIRC. Hmmm...

Understand, too, I'm not unilaterially opposed to retail development on that corner. I am opposed, specifically, to *WalMart* on that corner. Starbucks? Barnes and Noble? C'mon in!

-SoonerDave

[mranderson]

The planning commision and the city council can require sound barriers that will reduce the sound from those trucks.That is part of SPUD and PUD plans. Plus. You will probably find that the sound of an 80,000 pound truck (fully loaded to DOT max) is not as loud as you think. I worked around them many times and five straight years at Lowe's alone. We never heard any of the trucks unless we were on top of them. (not litrally, of course)

As usual, you miss the point on the 7-11 example. There are people in and out of 7-11's 24 hours a day, and in many cases 365 days a year, plus one extra day every Presidential election year. Plus many 7-11's have a large low life clientelle. Yes, respectable people shop there, however, a lot of their people are really low class trash.

In addition, a strip center will attract semi's as well. Plus loud cars at night when all the kids decide they want to hang out there.

If you really do not want to see progress, then I suggest you keep an eye on the planning commision agenda and the city council agenda, then when this proposal is heard, appear at the meetings and state your case. If there is enough protesters, then it may be denied. No protesters show, then you can look for Wal-Mart signs in your future.

I have also read something about the candidates for ward five. There is a guy named David Miller who is anti progress. He is the one to vote for since you have the "not in my backyard" mentality. Your current planning commisioner is George Washington. He is backing this plan from what I understand.

[SoonerDave]

If you really do not want to see progress...

mranderson, I'm frankly in no mood to deal with your trolling predispositions, your incendiary remarks, or the ad-hominem manner with which you seem compelled to contribute to so many discussions here.

If the worst thing you can call me is "anti-progress" - and that only four or five messages after you play a racial card (who was it that buys those 7-11's?), so be it. If you want to ignore the fact that (several times) I have embraced, encouraged in this very thread, and hoped for a better-caliber of retail merchant at that corner, that's your prerogative.

You and I have different measures (in fact, definitions) of progress.

If, in your world, your only measure of progress is how many WalMarts and Caucasian-only 7-11's (and we want to be sure to keep out those Chinese laundromats too, right?) we can cram in the back yards of people whose only offense is working, paying their taxes, and their mortgages, then, no, I don't want your kind of progress.

You can take heart, however, mranderson, because I fully realize the probability of stopping WalMart from doing precisely as they please hovers just above zero. You'll get your precious new WalMart Cathedral of Progress, and I hope you joyfully pray there every day at their altar.

-SoonerDave

[mranderson]

mranderson, I'm frankly in no mood to deal with your trolling predispositions, your incendiary remarks, or the ad-hominem manner with which you seem compelled to contribute to so many discussions here.

If the worst thing you can call me is "anti-progress" - and that only four or five messages after you play a racial card (who was it that buys those 7-11's?), so be it. If you want to ignore the fact that (several times) I have embraced, encouraged in this very thread, and hoped for a better-caliber of retail merchant at that corner, that's your prerogative.

You and I have different measures (in fact, definitions) of progress.

If, in your world, your only measure of progress is how many WalMarts and Caucasian-only 7-11's (and we want to be sure to keep out those Chinese laundromats too, right?) we can cram in the back yards of people whose only offense is working, paying their taxes, and their mortgages, then, no, I don't want your kind of progress.

You can take heart, however, mranderson, because I fully realize the probability of stopping WalMart from doing precisely as they please hovers just above zero. You'll get your precious new WalMart Cathedral of Progress, and I hope you joyfully pray there every day at their altar.

-SoonerDave

I swear. You and the rest of those like you really do not know how to inturprate a message. I suggest you take some lessons on how to read those messages. Think about what I said. I never once said anything "racial" about anything. I only pointed out the fact ORIENTALS and ARABS buy the outdated 7-11's. And, yes. You are anti progress.

[jbrown84]

Oh, andy, you crack me up. "The rest of those like you" is everyone on this board.

Walmart = progress by NO definition.

You use the words "oriental" and "arab", yet claim to not be playing the race card?? Ha.

I interpreted your message as pretty hostile myself, so I don't know how you could call it otherwise. Last I checked, ASIANS and MIDDLE EASTERN people were some of the most enterprising, successful people on the planet. But that would be stereotyping--wouldn't want to do that.

[swdogg]

As stated in some posts you can ask for Wal-mart to make the store meet the standards of the housing additions. Get involved and Vote. As some may know, March 6th is a time to voice your thoughts, visit David Miller Ward 5