OKC Commuter Rail

[urbanity]

http://www.okgazette.com/article/09-..._Oklahoma.aspx

[betts]

I've always thought our north-south traffic north of I-40 was too light to induce people to get out of their cars, but I've seen a huge increase in standstill traffic in the last couple of years. Luckily for me, I don't ever have to get on the highway at rush hour unless I want to, but at times when I've been running an errand and forgotten, I've been highly annoyed at the backup. Also, on nights when there are events downtown, the same thing can happen. If I lived in Edmond and wanted to go to a Thunder game, the thought of not having to sit at the 6th street exit or pay for parking would probably be inducement enough for me to sit back and let someone else drive as well.

Even my husband, whose chief interest is trains, is beginning to think it might work. He's been a naysayer for years, but now he has the Broadway Extension to contend with on occasion.

[okclee]

Betts... How much money do you think that you have saved in auto fuel since your relocation to downtown living?

People that are skeptics about living downtown and paying the higher rents or higher monthly mortgage often overlook this expense.

I think that should be marketed more in both the commuter rail and downtown living discussions.

[fuzzytoad]

People that are skeptics about living downtown and paying the higher rents or higher monthly mortgage often overlook this expense.

I think that should be marketed more in both the commuter rail and downtown living discussions.

I currently pay $450 a month house payment. I spend $45 a month in gas. I commute downtown for work every weekday and most weekends.

There's not a single place downtown that costs $495 a month and comes anywhere near my current square footage at even double that amount...

[Kerry]

I currently pay $450 a month house payment. I spend $45 a month in gas. I commute downtown for work every weekday and most weekends.

There's not a single place downtown that costs $495 a month and comes anywhere near my current square footage at even double that amount...

You ride a motorcycle? I work from my living room and spend more than $45 a month in gas.

[okclee]

you mean $45 per week right?

[fuzzytoad]

you mean $45 per week right?

no, per month

[Kerry]

no, per month

Riddle me this, do you even use gasoline in your conveyance?

[fuzzytoad]

Riddle me this, do you even use gasoline in your conveyance?

yes...

I get roughly 30mpg, try to time my drive when there's almost no traffic and try to shop mostly at stores that are either within walking distance of my house or work or places that are along my daily drive(the length of broadway from n. Edmond to 6th street DT).

I fill up my vehicle every 4 weeks which costs $40 - $45...

Which means that there's no way I'm going to save any money by moving downtown and paying 2-3 times more per month for a place half the size of my current house..

[OKCisOK4me]

I think it's pretty cool that they're wanting to do a "demonstration" line. Keep us up to date when that takes place!

[Eep]

Betts... How much money do you think that you have saved in auto fuel since your relocation to downtown living?

People that are skeptics about living downtown and paying the higher rents or higher monthly mortgage often overlook this expense.

If you do the math, it's not all that compelling.

Say you commute downtown to work 22 days/month, you live 20 miles from downtown, gas costs $2.60, and your car gets 15 mpg: your monthly fuel cost for your work commute is ((22d * 40mi) / 15mpg) * $2.6 = $152.53. If instead you live in a 10 mile radius of downtown, that cost is cut in half (to $76.27); if instead your car gets 20 mpg that cost drops by a quarter (to $114.4). So by not driving to work *at all* and moving a full 20 miles closer, you're still only saving ~$150/month even if you were doing that commute in a relatively fuel-inefficient SUV.

The other issue is that even if you ARE saving $150 a month on your work commute by doing the above, it's highly probable that you are eating into that savings by increasing your non-work commutes. Downtown and its immediate surroundings have a great assortment of restaurants, entertainment options, gas stations, etc., but there's not a decent grocery store for several miles. You're also several miles from most types of retail establishments - clothing, electronics, etc. Wanna take your dog to the dog park since you no longer have a yard? Lake Hefner isn't close.

It's not nothing, but for most people it won't come anywhere close to offsetting the rent/mortgage/price per sq. ft. increase. The choice to live downtown is more about quality of life improvement than cost savings, IMO. You're not having to spend time every day sitting in traffic because you're not doing the rush hour drive to and from work. You can walk to restaurants and bars without people assuming you must have racked up enough DUIs to lose your license. There's a pretty varied selection of "culture" to be found in your immediate neighborhood. You're not having to keep up with a yard, or maintain the exterior of a house. You can get high quality appointments in small living spaces which are hard to find in other areas of town; some people have plenty of money to spend but don't care to clean, furnish, etc. a 1.5k+ sq. ft. house.

[adaniel]

Betts... How much money do you think that you have saved in auto fuel since your relocation to downtown living?

People that are skeptics about living downtown and paying the higher rents or higher monthly mortgage often overlook this expense.

I think that should be marketed more in both the commuter rail and downtown living discussions.

Well I will give you my personal experience. I moved to midtown last month after living off NWX and Council for the previous year (and before that, I was commuting to my job from my old college pad in Norman). From Norman to my job near Dewey and 11th I was spending approx. $170/month on fuel. From NWX to work, $150 month. From midtown to work, $35/month. Full disclosure: I have a car with an eight-cylinder engine and I tend to...um "speed" a little, which is much harder to do in the middle of the city than on a freeway. The savings on fuel cover the $105/month jump in rent. From that perspective, its a financially lateral move, which was the best I could hope for.

But there are savings like car maintenence that aren't realized unless you expense it over a large period of time. Also, I have intangible savings in my lifestyle. I can sleep in a little later since I live so close to work, and I'm not so stressed from dealing with idiots on Lake Hefner Parkway trying to kill me during my commute. One thing to remember: the fuel prices I used were assuming gas at $2.50-ish a gallon. Who doesn't think its only a matter of time before gas spikes back up?

EDIT: I just read Eep's post and he makes some good points. I will say I probably have taken on more expenses now because I have so many great bars and restaurants around me and I'm constantly eating out. You really have to plan your food budget because indeed, there are few options for grocery shopping. No "running up the street" if you forgot something. On the other hand, the fact that I moved into a slightly smaller space and the fact that my building (like many other buildings in midtown) have come online during a period of increased awareness over energy efficiency has done wonders for my electric bill. My first OGE bill last month was $65, during a time of near record heat.

Its all about weighing whats important to you in your life.

[betts]

I don't save that much on gas by living downtown, because I drive a mini, but what I do save a phenomenal amount of money on is lawn maintenance, since I have none, insurance and utilities. Since we have foam insulated concrete walls and a heatpump, my utility bill is literally at most 10% of what it was before, and my house isn't that much smaller. Insurance premiums are lower too, because of how our house is constructed and because we have sprinklers. Over 10 years, I've estimated I will save at least $300,000 over what I was paying to live in my last house just on expenses.

What is incalculable is how walking everywhere will impact health care costs and how pleasant it is to have all the restaurants and entertainment options we do within walking distance.

Now, back to rail. I'm not sure how much it would save to take the train to work everyday, but I can only imagine how much more relaxing it would be to ride rather than drive. To me, it would be well worth the minor inconvenience of having to get to where I'm going from the train station.

[Kerry]

My first OGE bill last month was $65, during a time of near record heat.

Holy crap. My electric bill the last 2 months were $496 and $490.

[kevinpate]

Holy crap. My electric bill the last 2 months were $496 and $490.

I was feeling a tad depressed about adaniels low bill compared to mine.
Kerry helped ease that pain. Thanks, and uh, sorry too.

[Kerry]

I was feeling a tad depressed about adaniels low bill compared to mine.
Kerry helped ease that pain. Thanks, and uh, sorry too.

Here is my power pole. I think my neighbors might be stealing electricity from me.

[Larry OKC]

Holy crap. My electric bill the last 2 months were $496 and $490.

Good grief...what are your electric rates like in Florida? I am in a older 2 bed/bath apartment that probably has nil insulation, paper thin windows, all electric and monthly bill averages less than $120/month. There are some ups/downs but kilowatt usage stays fairly constant year round

[Kerry]

Good grief...what are your electric rates like in Florida? I am in a older 2 bed/bath apartment that probably has nil insulation, paper thin windows, all electric and monthly bill averages less than $120/month. There are some ups/downs but kilowatt usage stays fairly constant year round

We have had multiple double digit rate increases the last few years and an article in the paper said a large portion of the bill goes to service JEA debt. We also pay for a lot environmental regulations. On the plus side, of everyone we know on our street we had the lowest bill. Everyone else is the $500s with one being over $600. JEA is sucking a lot of money out of the Jacksonville economy.

But I think we strayed from the topic.

[adaniel]

I was feeling a tad depressed about adaniels low bill compared to mine.
Kerry helped ease that pain. Thanks, and uh, sorry too.

Sorry indeed! you guys are getting hosed in JAX. And if it makes you feel better, my last place was about as well insulated as a wood hut. During the days of the snowpocalypse in January and Februray of this year my eletric bill topped $300 both months (this was for a 900 sq ft condo). So you could say that me and OGE are even now.

But yes, back on topic now.

[flintysooner]

I think Oklahoma electricity rates are in the $80 to $90 per 1,000 KWH. Looks like Jacksonville is more around $114.

[Kerry]

I think Oklahoma electricity rates are in the $80 to $90 per 1,000 KWH. Looks like Jacksonville is more around $114.

We also have our water tied to the electric here in Jax. The same company does it all (JEA is actually a City entity). According to the local paper most of our bill goes to pay $3 billion in debt on the water side.

[Dar405301]

i'm with you Kerry, JEA sucks!!

[okclee]

Back to topic.

I don't think our legislature, with the limited visionaries we have in congress, with will move forward with a commuter rail until the MAPS3 streetcar is up and running at least a year or two.

[OKCisOK4me]

That's why I believe it will become more of a reality if there is a demonstration commuter train that runs for say a week. Let's put those visionaries on it and see how they like it. Then it will be easier to become a reality once the street car system is up and running and they will see how it will tie in to the over all system. Granted, you can't take our current legislature and give them rides because by the time they do this, it will be a whole other group.

[Plutonic Panda]

Update from The Edmond Sun

Corridor study due in late summer
Edmond listed on 1 of 3 commuter routes

By Van Mitchell
Special to The Sun

EDMOND — City leaders should know later this summer the results of a study determining whether a commuter rail project is feasible for Edmond and Central Oklahoma.

The Association of Central Oklahoma Governments and project consultants with URS Corporation had its second and final webinar Wednesday afternoon on the Central Oklahoma Commuter Corridors Study.

The 18-month study sponsored by ACOG is designed to determine whether there is feasibility and support for commuter-rail service in central Oklahoma. The study is to be completed later this summer.

“This is a feasibility study,” said Holly Massie, special programs officer and project manager with ACOG. “The consultants are trying to determine the feasibility of it, the cost and whether there is public support for it. It (study) was really members of our local governments who were supportive of this.”

The Central Oklahoma Commuter Corridors Study considers various routes and modes of public transportation for moving people throughout Central Oklahoma, focusing on three specific corridors all overlapping in downtown Oklahoma City at the Santa Fe Intermodal Hub.

The North corridor extends 14 miles between Edmond and downtown Oklahoma City, the East corridor extends 10 miles from downtown Oklahoma City through Del City to Midwest City and Tinker Air Force Base and the South corridor extends 17 miles from downtown Oklahoma City through Moore to Norman and the University of Oklahoma.

“There are three corridors under review,” Massie said. “The consultants have done more detailed analysis. They have looked at cost, ridership and any major obstacles it might have. This program would be different from Amtrak, which goes state to state. This would go metro to metro.”

Massie said additionally, potential costs and technical feasibility has been assessed for each of the alternatives within the three corridors.

She said project consultants sought input from registrants regarding locally preferred alternatives and transit mode to assist in developing final recommendations.

Massie said part of that transit mode includes shuttle bus service from the trains.

- See more at: Corridor study due in late summer » Local News » The Edmond Sun

I really hope they do this. Hopefully we will eventually get light-rail, but I guess baby steps are better than nothing. I am just worried this study will lead to another study or it won't go anywhere at all. It seems ODOT loves to do studies but when it comes time to build it, well........ that's another story.