OKC Commuter Rail

[OKVision4U]

Light Rail Transit w/ Mag-Lev ( Electro Magnetic System ) uses a renewable energy source we already have in-place ( wind farms ) here in Oklahoma.

[OKVision4U]

If the ACOG is recommending the Heavy Trains and sharing lines w/ the freight trains too, because of a .015 penny savings ???

This is what I call another Dumb Okie move.

[cagoklahoma]

While I do share you vision for the Mag-Lev and other alternate systems that are quite possibly the best decision, I personally have had to come to the realization that Oklahoma isn’t always comfortable with the cost of the best decision. I personally, and I think many others on here would agree, I would prefer a good decision that increases usage and awareness of the value of a commuter train that actually get built and is running instead of drawing a hard line of the best or nothing. When I imagine the Central Oklahoma Rail System I imagine something similar to the Metra rail in Chicago. None of those platforms we’re a rail yard or dangerous, in fact most were quite nice. I also wish the line would run to Guthrie. I would rather ride a diesel train that actually exists than talk about an awesome Mag-Lev system that does not. It’s all about the getting the low hanging fruit. Please understand that we agree on what the best decision would be, but that decision does not take into account feasibility in the Oklahoma Political environment. Thank you, OKVision for your passion. I am just trying to provide a different perspective.

[hoya]

Absolutely! In fact, it is the leaders of OKC and the surrounding municipalities who are currently directing the Steering Committee for ACOG's Regional Transit Dialogue and working towards creation of the Regional Transit Authority. Thanks to the leadership of Mayor Cornett, Mayor Rosenthal of Norman, Mayor Frye of Midwest City, Councilmembers Elizabeth Waner and Victoria Caldwell of Edmond, and many other elected officials, civic leaders and public representatives, Oklahoma City and many of the surrounding municipalities are in agreement on the need to move forward with creation of an RTA and are working to achieve that goal.

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't very clear.

I understand that the different cities in the area are working together to get rail transit established. What I am asking is, will the RTA provide assistance to those cities to help them best make use of the new transit options? Will they have advisors who can help Del City or Midwest City or Moore put together a mixed use development around their stops? Will they have suggested changes to zoning codes and city ordinances to ensure we get the right kinds of developments in those areas?

[decepticobra]

its not a matter of the quantity of ridership, but the quality of the riders that will ultimately either attract business or deter clients from riding it. if youve riden the local bus, then I dont need to explain further.

[Urban Pioneer]

Why you don't run to the Plaza:

1. It doesn't tease urban development to a main artery. Even in Europe, the major points of interest have major roads either through or very near to the different stops/stations. if the Plaza can't extend to Classen, every single one of us should be hoping it is an afterthought in the OKC urban landscape in 20 years. The Plaza is engulfed by blocks and blocks of single family homes…that's not a good thing.

2. It's a super narrow street with nothing but 2-3 blocks of 1 story buildings.

3. It can be very well served by Bus routes that lead to other major districts, particularly 23rd and downtown.

…Guys, I love the Plaza, and it is doing great things for OKC…but it's way way way too small to be of note in the OKC of 2030-40. It would need a very aggressive expansion plan that would make a stop at 16th/Classen plenty acceptable to be relevant as time continues to press forward. If we're not building our transit system for the OKC of 2030-40 (at the very least) we're missing the boat entirely.

Going north of downtown, the street-car simply has to go up Classen, Western or Penn.

Thanks for the clarification. I am not sure that I entirely agree with you. But then again, many of these posts (including the earlier one regarding mixed use development and urbanity) seem to suggest that as usual, there needs to be a greater involvement from prospective city Planning Departments. Teher involvement doesn't necessarily have to involve creating master plans around each stop, but a zoning overlay that encourages mixed use and density seems appropriate.

I have seen Planning Departments choke awesome ideas and at the same time also create innovative plans that never see the light of day because the folks in charge of these departments do not have the political skills to carry them through. This being a complete contrast to Public Works Departments.

There should be some sort of integrated land use innovation with the millions that we may be spending on transit in the near future.

[OKVision4U]

While I do share you vision for the Mag-Lev and other alternate systems that are quite possibly the best decision, I personally have had to come to the realization that Oklahoma isn’t always comfortable with the cost of the best decision. I personally, and I think many others on here would agree, I would prefer a good decision that increases usage and awareness of the value of a commuter train that actually get built and is running instead of drawing a hard line of the best or nothing. When I imagine the Central Oklahoma Rail System I imagine something similar to the Metra rail in Chicago. None of those platforms we’re a rail yard or dangerous, in fact most were quite nice. I also wish the line would run to Guthrie. I would rather ride a diesel train that actually exists than talk about an awesome Mag-Lev system that does not. It’s all about the getting the low hanging fruit. Please understand that we agree on what the best decision would be, but that decision does not take into account feasibility in the Oklahoma Political environment. Thank you, OKVision for your passion. I am just trying to provide a different perspective.

There are a couple of major issues I have with this position. If we are "voting" on this, then we deserve the Light Rail w/ Mag-Lev technology. This is not coming out of the city budget, but a dedicated tax for a single purpose.... ie MAPS. And if we are voting on this, then let us have (2) options..; A. Heavy Diesel w/ Existing Track, Shared Freight lines and Zero Economic Impact to OKC or any other city. or B. Light Rail w/ dedicated track that is placed in selected loctions and with a $ 1 Billion Dollar Economic Impact for the OKC Metro EACH YEAR. ... Light Rail has the best ROI for all cities involved.

I am not accepting the position of a few committee members decision ( ACOG ) for the rest of us. Not when the USR stated that Light Rail is the Best Solution too. If that is their position, then they need to be removed. Leading means to take us forward, not backwards. Are you ALL affraid of success? If spending a billion dollars makes you nervous, then you are not the one that should be making that decsion for the rest of us. And don't make this a case of low hanging-fruit for our economy, the Light Rail Mag-Lev will be placing us in a position to buy the tree w/ cash.

Let's not Okie down our future anymore. Light Rail w/ Mag-Lev technology is the right decision today. This should be a vote By the people, not a decision already made by a committee.

[OKVision4U]

This is NOT a futuristic technology, Texas is doing it NOW w/ Japan Central . ...so why can't we? ...if we have a way of funding it, then wouldn't we want the Best for OKC Metro?

...again, Grandma is not riding the big heavy diesel loco to go see her Dr. at OU Health.

[betts]

No one is spending a billion dollars + without voter approval. I would suggest running for city council, or lobbying your city councilors hard to make this the next MAPS election, because it would be the only thing on the ballot at that price. All the talk in the world on a message board accomplishes nothing. Without political involvement, other people are going to make the decisions they want to make. And that billion + dollars means the only thing we're spending money on is light rail. We're no Dallas, with a population to generate that kind of money and then some.

[Plutonic Panda]

No one is spending a billion dollars + without voter approval. I would suggest running for city council, or lobbying your city councilors hard to make this the next MAPS election, because it would be the only thing on the ballot at that price. All the talk in the world on a message board accomplishes nothing. Without political involvement, other people are going to make the decisions they want to make. And that billion + dollars means the only thing we're spending money on is light rail. We're no Dallas, with a population to generate that kind of money and then some.

OK so why even post opinions on a message board then if all you're going to get is someone telling you to take it to the politicians?

I for one, think Maglev would be great and Japan is currently testing technologies that could make MagLev exceed 400MPH....

We have a monster of a state directly to the south that is greatly interested in connecting to us via HSR, so why not put a billion up and rake in the returns? In my view, getting HSR in Oklahoma connecting to the Texas triangle HSR might be one of the biggest things in the states history and even the country. It truly would be something remarkable.

The problem is lack of ambition here. That is all I am going to say. Putting a bond proposal to secure a few billion over the next couple years would be well worth it. I honestly don't care what happens with Tulsa, but if OKC was connected to Dallas and the rest of Texas, the long term economic effects would be amazing. The only downside I could think of is a possibility more people might go to DFW International Airport, but whatever. If we won't ever get a hub like Venture and Catch22 say is unlikely, I say then we can keep our airport small and reek in the other benefits.

[ljbab728]

OK so why even post opinions on a message board then if all you're going to get is someone telling you to take it to the politicians?

Maybe because that is a very good suggestion for someone who seems to be so adamant with specific ideas about what should be done?

[OKCisOK4me]

Borrowing Doug Loudenbeck's image here from his blog Doug Dawgz Blog, it's plain to see that a lot of history will be repeating itself with regard to the streetcar and expansion. It still holds true that 70+ years after the original lines were dismantled, certain parts of the city are still strongholds!




Sent from my Inspiron 7537 using Tapatalk

[Teo9969]

Thanks for the clarification. I am not sure that I entirely agree with you. But then again, many of these posts (including the earlier one regarding mixed use development and urbanity) seem to suggest that as usual, there needs to be a greater involvement from prospective city Planning Departments. Teher involvement doesn't necessarily have to involve creating master plans around each stop, but a zoning overlay that encourages mixed use and density seems appropriate.

I have seen Planning Departments choke awesome ideas and at the same time also create innovative plans that never see the light of day because the folks in charge of these departments do not have the political skills to carry them through. This being a complete contrast to Public Works Departments.

There should be some sort of integrated land use innovation with the millions that we may be spending on transit in the near future.

Absolutely. There's no reason not to go ahead and overlay Classen, if we intend to shoot this line up to 63rd, with zoning that requires development to push to the curb, 12 to 20 ft. sidewalks, a required height between 2-3 and 6-8 stories, and any parking in the back portion of the lot. If Classen from 10th to NW Expressway had walkable development, it would as impressive as anything we've done downtown, and a major win for the city.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, if they're going to put a streetcar on Classen, then they need to make it walkable. Reduce the street from 3 lanes each way to two. Reduce the median width. Place protected bike lanes and add parallel parking and widen sidewalks. There's no reason to half ass it. Even though I'm against the street being narrowed, I think they should if they are going to run a street car on it.

[Plutonic Panda]

anyways.. this is what I do to Classen if they are dead set on running the streetcar on it


kind of like the BLVD.

[Teo9969]

anyways.. this is what I do to Classen if they are dead set on running the streetcar on it


kind of like the BLVD.

Get rid of the median. Run the street car down the middle with a rod-iron fence between the traffic and the tracks (except for at stops and intersections) from there toward the outside: 2 lanes, small curb then bike lanes (dutch style), sidewalk, building, parking.

[Plutonic Panda]

This better?

[Plutonic Panda]

I couldn't find any wrought iron fence though. But you get the idea

[Teo9969]

Transit shelter would go in the median too, but yeah.

[betts]

OK so why even post opinions on a message board then if all you're going to get is someone telling you to take it to the politicians?

The problem is lack of ambition here. That is all I am going to say.

Because how else do you get something on a ballot? Opinions are fine, but if you really want something, you have to work for it. Nothing gets handed to us in life. To do otherwise is lack of ambition IMO.

[Plutonic Panda]

Because how else do you get something on a ballot? Opinions are fine, but if you really want something, you have to work for it. Nothing gets handed to us in life. To do otherwise is lack of ambition IMO.

fair enough

[OKVision4U]

OK so why even post opinions on a message board then if all you're going to get is someone telling you to take it to the politicians?

I for one, think Maglev would be great and Japan is currently testing technologies that could make MagLev exceed 400MPH....

We have a monster of a state directly to the south that is greatly interested in connecting to us via HSR, so why not put a billion up and rake in the returns? In my view, getting HSR in Oklahoma connecting to the Texas triangle HSR might be one of the biggest things in the states history and even the country. It truly would be something remarkable.
The problem is lack of ambition here. That is all I am going to say. Putting a bond proposal to secure a few billion over the next couple years would be well worth it. I honestly don't care what happens with Tulsa, but if OKC was connected to Dallas and the rest of Texas, the long term economic effects would be amazing. The only downside I could think of is a possibility more people might go to DFW International Airport, but whatever. If we won't ever get a hub like Venture and Catch22 say is unlikely, I say then we can keep our airport small and reek in the other benefits.

Panda, you nailed it ! Texas is going to do with the Mag-Lev Triangle just like they did w/ Southwest airlines and we need to be ready to go when they turn the switch on.

The HSR to Dallas will be the next step in transportation. ...so why not have our OKC Metro Rail be of the same system ? ...this is the one thing that does make sense. If OKC is connected directly to this HSR artery that Texas is putting in place now, then OKC will not be "cut-off" to the billions of economic growth.

The OKC Metro Light Rail should be of Mag-Lev system and we would not have to build this twice.

[warreng88]

I for one, think Maglev would be great and Japan is currently testing technologies that could make MagLev exceed 400MPH....

We have a monster of a state directly to the south that is greatly interested in connecting to us via HSR, so why not put a billion up and rake in the returns? In my view, getting HSR in Oklahoma connecting to the Texas triangle HSR might be one of the biggest things in the states history and even the country. It truly would be something remarkable.

The Maglev in Japan would link Tokyo (largest population in the world with close to 37 million people) to the Chubu region of Japan which has close to nine million people. I agree HSR south to Dallas is the ultimate goal but having that kind of cost for commuters of a city of 1.3 million doesn't make sense.

[Hutch]

I am not accepting the position of a few committee members decision ( ACOG ) for the rest of us. Not when the USR stated that Light Rail is the Best Solution too.

You need to get your facts straight.

1) ACOG is just sponsoring the Commuter Corridor Study and Regional Transit Dialogue. Their staff is not the Steering Committee and they do not have a role in the decision-making.
2) The Steering Committee is not just a "few people". It's made up of more than 30 elected public officials, civic and business leaders and other representatives from the various municipalities involved, including Mayors and Councilmembers from Oklahoma City, Edmond, Norman and Midwest City.
3) It's not USR...it's URS Corporation and they are recognized international experts in rail transit system planning and development.
4) URS did NOT state that Light Rail is the best solution. In fact, their analysis found that Light Rail was "not warranted" for our system. The truth of the matter is that URS recommended Commuter Rail as the preferred rail transit solution for the Edmond and Norman corridors, and they recommended Bus Rapid Transit or Rapid Streetcar for the Midwest City corridor.
5) The conservative cost estimate provided by URS for development of Light Rail service was NOT $40 million per mile. It was nearly double that figure at almost $80 million per mile.
6) Commuter Rail was the rail transit mode of choice by a majority of public who took part in URS' open houses, webinars and online surveys.
7) Unlike the Amtrak Heartland Flyer, which does operate on a shared single mainline track with Freight Rail, the Commuter Rail system recommended by URS for the Oklahoma City metropolitan area is based on installation of a second mainline track on which Commuter Rail trains will operate independently and without interference from Freight Rail traffic during normal operational hours.
8) All Commuter Rail operations through Santa Fe Intermodal Station and at all other system stations will NOT require passengers to cross active freight or passenger rail lines or to enter active rail yards. Passengers will safely access and board all Commuter Rail trains directly from passenger platforms accessed directly from those stations.

Betts is right. If you're convinced you have the answer, then you should become a part of the political and technical processes, like many of the rest of us who are already working with our civic leaders and the planning and engineering consultants to try to develop an affordable and workable transit system for Oklahoma City that the voters will support. Short of that, your rants on this forum will have little meaning or impact.

[OKVision4U]

No one is spending a billion dollars + without voter approval. I would suggest running for city council, or lobbying your city councilors hard to make this the next MAPS election, because it would be the only thing on the ballot at that price. All the talk in the world on a message board accomplishes nothing. Without political involvement, other people are going to make the decisions they want to make. And that billion + dollars means the only thing we're spending money on is light rail. We're no Dallas, with a population to generate that kind of money and then some.

Betts, thanks for the tip. I'm not running for election, I will just help make our current ACOG members work for me. I will keep pressure on them to make the right decisions now.

You just told me why you are having an issue with this Light Rail ( mag-lev ) system, because it will not leave room for the other "pet" projects. Also, so what I am hearing from you is that we should use MAPS as a tool to "let's give them something to chew on" like a Heavy Diesel Train sharing Freight Lines for a regional commute...? Many of you are OK with spending $350 - $500 Million on a "just ok / average" solution for our commute? ....you are OK with providing this product when so few will ride it? ... you are OK with having a new product in place, but sending the consumers to the worst part of town? ...??? THAT, is NOT acceptable !

Let me tell you what is acceptable. People don't mind spending $ 1.6 - $ 2 Billion if they know they will have a great experience / if helps make their lives better & solves problems ( ie OU student getting from one campus to another / Grandma from Edmond that needs to get to OU Health / Single Mom from Yukon getting to work in the booming downtown district in a Safe manner....????? This system will be placed in the existing booming business districts along the freeways. The People will vote YES for that.

This Light Rail will provide the economic boost that ALL the cities involved can manage. This will be the shot in the arm for each local economy. Yukon / MWC / Edmond / Norman / Mustang / Moore..etc. We can't afford NOT to do this.