Can I drive the speed limit in the "fast lane?"

[MadMonk]

No reason for this post. I just wanted it to be the 100th post of the thread. Why not? This thread has already gone to hell.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Just the facts for Midtowner and MadMonk:
32% (78,277) of the 241,818 traffic citations issued in 2004 were for excessive speed. 19.2% of all crashes are caused by vehicles exceeding the speed limit. These are the 2004 facts from the OK Department of Public Safety. There are no statistics for the number of vehicles cited for driving too slow.

Thanks for the link to the facts Gal. I got the idea that we were talking about driving safety in general not just driving too fast. But anyhow, I looked up the info from your link on causes for total crashes. Lots of data to be sure. Of course I hoped that there would be a disproportionate number of women vs men involved in crashes, but it would be very difficult to make that case since there are no stats on trip miles or total drivers on the roads by each gender; just licensed drivers of 48.7% male and 51.3% female. Crash totals were 53.4% male and 42.0% female. I don't know where the other 4.6% goes. 73.6% of fatalities were guys. And they didn't break it down by Red Drivers vs Blue Drivers, which really pissed me off; or blue haired old ladies in Lincoln Town Cars and rednecks in gigantic pickups either.

Just The Facts Mam

#1 17.3% Failure to yield.
#2 12.8% Unsafe speed
#3 12.0% Inattention

Unsafe speed was reported for over 25% of rural crashes but not listed in the top three causes for urban crashes, so it must be below 11%, which was the portion for Improper Act/Movement. I guess that Improper Act/Movement could include one driver giving the finger to another driver, as a cause, but there was no further detail shown.

I took a few minutes and checked a lot of the data and it is obvious that in general, NOT PAYING ATTENTION is the major cause of car crashes. Whether it's listed as failure to yield, driving too fast for the road conditions, or what ever, it comes down to NOT PAYING ATTENTION. Biggest number of wrecks (5150) in 2004 were caused by Unsafe Speed-Rain or Wet Roadway (big shocker here) compared to 2441 for just Exceeding Legal Limit. There are two categories that may include crashes caused by slow driving, Unsafe Speed-Impeding Traffic (56) and Unsafe Speed-Other (616).

Lots of interesting comments on this thread and lots of harsh words and hurt feelings too. Good/Bad

[Karried]

Yes, a great reminder to attack the argument, not the person.. and be thankful that a few of us are not barreling down the freeway 'taking it to the streets' me with my tire iron, and more than a few fingers flying about LOL

Let's all play nice now..

[The Old Downtown Guy]

A REPORT FROM THE ROAD

I drove to Tulsa an back today and here is what I witnessed and experienced. FYI, I drive on cruise control most of the time at about 2 MPH over the posted limit. Don't care? OK, I just thought I would provide that information. No particular reason.

About one in five drivers were just driving in the left hand lane and not in the act of passing, letting someone onto the roadway or any other reason than just hanging out in the passing lane. Those that I was forced to pass on the right who happened to look my way would have noticed a slight shaking of my head and a bulge inside my jacket which was, in fact, me flipping them off. But, having learned on this thread that openly giving someone the finger is the act of an unintelligent person, I concealed my rude gesture.

Most people drive the speed limit +/- 5 MPH.

I was passed by two trucks going about 90 MPH. I gave them both the finger, but I put a handkerchief over my hand so no one would perceive me as being unintelligent.

I was only passed by a dozen or so other vehicles and all of them were going about 5 MPH or so faster than I was. I didn't make any sort of gesture to any of them. I might have sighed as they passed though.

On three occasions, semis clogged both lanes. They all received the bird from me cloaked under a baseball cap (not wanting to appear unintelligent to my fellow travelers; pretty clever move I thought to myself), and a few choice, silently mouthed four letter words combined with the mention of some particular body orifices along with other well practiced commentary, but I covered my mouth with my other hand so as not to further disclose my lack of intelligence. Unfortunately having both hands occupied by this time honored communication process left nothing but my right knee for driving, but I managed.

Topping a hill, driving in the passing lane while passing, I encountered several really big chunks of shredded truck tire tread. I mentally cursed every trucker that knowingly leaves that junk in the road. I was disappointed that there was no offending eighteen wheeler jockey nearby to flip off.

Safely home again.

[Keith]

That middle finger of yours is going to get you in big trouble one of these days. All it does is make other drivers want to kick your butt or run you off the road. Some drivers enjoy doing it because they think it's cute...it's not. As I said in an earlier post, flipping someone off shows lack of intelligence, no matter how you disguise it.

[Karried]

LOL Old DowntownGuy- I'm impressed with your restraint.. you have now graduated to driving and surviving on LA freeways!

[Keith]

Alrighty....enough on correcting other posters' spelling errors. We don't grade on punctuation or spelling on this forum, and I know that many people (including myself) misspell words occasionally in a post. I try to be careful by reading my post before I hit submit. I am the type of person that hates to misspell words or not use punctuation correctly. I am the newsletter editor for a volunteer organization, so spelling and punctuation are important to me.

Some advice to fellow members: If you want others to understand your posts, then it is wise to try to use commas, periods, capital letters, etc...,.when explaining yourself. Have you ever read a post that had no punctuation (or very little), and tried to understand what was written? Many times, that type of post will not be read, because it is hard to decipher.

I know we have a wide variety of people on this forum. None of the moderators or the administrator will ever correct the spelling or punctuation on a post....we aren't the spelling/punctuation police. Your posts will have much more significance, though, if other members can read and understand it.

Now, with that being said.....

As Karried said in an earlier post....let's all play nice.

[sweetdaisy]

A REPORT FROM THE ROAD

I drove to Tulsa an back today and here is what I witnessed and experienced. FYI, I drive on cruise control most of the time at about 2 MPH over the posted limit. Don't care? OK, I just thought I would provide that information. No particular reason.

About one in five drivers were just driving in the left hand lane and not in the act of passing, letting someone onto the roadway or any other reason than just hanging out in the passing lane. Those that I was forced to pass on the right who happened to look my way would have noticed a slight shaking of my head and a bulge inside my jacket which was, in fact, me flipping them off. But, having learned on this thread that openly giving someone the finger is the act of an unintelligent person, I concealed my rude gesture.

Most people drive the speed limit +/- 5 MPH.

I was passed by two trucks going about 90 MPH. I gave them both the finger, but I put a handkerchief over my hand so no one would perceive me as being unintelligent.

I was only passed by a dozen or so other vehicles and all of them were going about 5 MPH or so faster than I was. I didn't make any sort of gesture to any of them. I might have sighed as they passed though.

On three occasions, semis clogged both lanes. They all received the bird from me cloaked under a baseball cap (not wanting to appear unintelligent to my fellow travelers; pretty clever move I thought to myself), and a few choice, silently mouthed four letter words combined with the mention of some particular body orifices along with other well practiced commentary, but I covered my mouth with my other hand so as not to further disclose my lack of intelligence. Unfortunately having both hands occupied by this time honored communication process left nothing but my right knee for driving, but I managed.

Topping a hill, driving in the passing lane while passing, I encountered several really big chunks of shredded truck tire tread. I mentally cursed every trucker that knowingly leaves that junk in the road. I was disappointed that there was no offending eighteen wheeler jockey nearby to flip off.

Safely home again.

Old Downtown Guy, this is priceless! It made me laugh so hard I snorted! (oops)

There have been some very good arguments on this thread, many of which I can appreciate with. Someone commented a couple days ago something to the effect of "for safety's sake, just speed up a bit long enough to get past the car you were passing" and I think that's probably the best advice here. Ideally, I say stay your course until you are able to pass, but this is not an ideal world and you must take into consideration impatience, frustration, people having bad days, etc. For your OWN safety (and that of the children in the vehicle), yeah, it might be a good idea to crank it up 5 mph long enough to get back into the right lane. Oh, and try to refrain from flipping anyone off.

On a separate note, since others were airing their driving peeves, I feel the need to whine and moan for a minute. I don't do road rage...in fact, I almost never get cranky when I'm driving...to me, it's a waste of energy to get mad. But today...OMG. For the love of all that is good, is it completely impossible for people to move over for people merging? I'm not talking about "rush hour" traffic...I'm talking 2pm on Hefner Speedway (that's 3 lanes to choose from!!!) Why on God's green earth is everyone living in the freakin' right hand lane? I can usually get up to about 60mph when merging from Hefner Road, but today, I had some dillhole to deal with who decided to try and speed up in his Geo Metro to "beat me" or something. Both of the other lanes were completely clear. I just don't get it. Grrr...

All better now. Thanks everyone!

[1Adam12]

What an interesting thread, and a very long one. It may take me three days to go through all of these posts.LOL

I do want to touch on a few things that I have read. First of all, in my years of experience, I have investigated more accidents where high speeds were a factor, and the results were not pretty. You can show me all the numbers you want to show me on traffic accidents, but, in my opinion, high speeds kill more people than low speeds.

I have also noticed that a few posters have admitted that they love to give other drivers "the bird." I noticed one poster even thinks it is rather humurous to do so, but it is one of the most dangerous, stupid, things you could ever do. More road rage happens when hand gestures are made to other motorists.

Then, the one that makes the hand gestures, which started the whole problem, wants me to cite the other driver. I don't cite drivers because of other drivers' stupidity.

On most highways in OKC, the speed limit through the city is 60 MPH., not 65, or 70, or 85 (a death wish). Anything over 60 MPH. is breaking the law. I don't care if it is 5 MPH over the speed limit, it is still breaking the law.

If you are in the middle lane, and you come upon a slower driver that is doing less than 60, then you need to turn on your signal indicator (most cars have them), and look very closely behind you before you change lanes. If a vehicle is in the left lane, and is coming up quickly, let them pass you up before you change lanes. Once you change lanes, pass the other driver, and then turn on your signal, indicating that you are going back in to the middle lane.

If someone tailgates you while you are passing another vehicle, then they are the ones that are breaking the law.

When merging on to the highway, always pay attention to the yield sign. Don't stop on the ramp unless there is no way for you to get on to the highway safely. As you are getting on the highway, it is safe to accellerate up to 50-55 MPH, in order to merge in to traffic. Those that merge in to traffic going 40 MPH or less, are a danger to other drivers around them.

In closing, I would like to share something funny. I really enjoy getting on the highway when I am going from one part of the city to another. It's like I have the road all to myself, because once I get on the highway, all of the other drivers hit their brakes and slow way down, and stay behind me. I don't care if I am only doing 55 MPH in the right lane, they will stay behind me. What they don't realize is that I am not running radar, and I am not trying to catch speeders. The only ones I will catch are the stupid ones. If you pass me up because I am only doing 55, I am not going to pull you over. If I am doing 60 MPH, and you pass me up, then you aren't very smart.

Have a safe evening. I hope to come back to this forum more often.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Old Downtown Guy, this is priceless! It made me laugh so hard I snorted! (oops) . . . . Oh, and try to refrain from flipping anyone off. . . . All better now. Thanks everyone!

Glad you got a laugh our of my story Daisy, that was half of the point of writing it. I enjoy airing my views and from time to time including some humor along side when I can. BTW, the last time I actually shot anyone the finger was in about 1987.

Have another nice day.

[okcpd]

1Adam12 is correct. High speeds are linked to more deadly accidents. The reason we enforce the law isn't to make money, but to help improve your safety. I applaud those here that obey the speed limits and other traffic laws. Those of you who don't are only lessening the safety on our roadways.

I'd personally like to see the law changed, and camera enforcement allowed in the state.

[Karried]

I don't think anyone really refutes the fact that high speeds can cause accidents.. we also need to acknowledge that people who are not considerate and refuse to let people onto the freeways or travel below the flow of traffic cause many problems as well.

The point I am making is we don't need self appointed vigilantes trying to maintain the normal flow of traffic by driving slowly in the fast lane. That causes another huge set of problems like road rage etc.

I've seen more Highway Patrols and OKCPD in the fast lane speeding than I care to count ( no lights, no sirens - just cruising about 80 mph) I have a feeling if they got behind someone traveling below the speed limit, they would expect that person to get over in the middle lane immediately. Can you imagine if the person refused to get over and forced the officer to travel at or below the speed limit? Imagine how frustrating that would be.. I think any officer can relate because people automatically slow down to avoid a ticket..... if that person doesn't get over and let the officer pass, they get very annoyed. I've seen it happen repeatedly.

Anyway, I'm all for safe driving. ( I'll have a teenage driver in a few years!) But I just don't like the merging problems we have here in OK and the discrepancy in speed ..

I think that steady flow of traffic is one way to prevent accidents.

[mranderson]

"I've seen more Highway Patrols and OKCPD in the fast lane speeding than I care to count ( no lights, no sirens - just cruising about 80 mph) I have a feeling if they got behind someone traveling below the speed limit, they would expect that person to get over in the middle lane immediately. Can you imagine if the person refused to get over and forced the officer to travel at or below the speed limit? Imagine how frustrating that would be.. I think any officer can relate because people automatically slow down to avoid a ticket..... if that person doesn't get over and let the officer pass, they get very annoyed. I've seen it happen repeatedly. "

The police department has a policy against code three on most calls. However, they are allowed to travel at high speed to answer priority calls. That is what is happening when you see them fly down the freeway or street. They are not racing to beat the crowd to the donut shop.

[quailcreekgal]

1Adam12 is correct. High speeds are linked to more deadly accidents. The reason we enforce the law isn't to make money, but to help improve your safety. I applaud those here that obey the speed limits and other traffic laws. Those of you who don't are only lessening the safety on our roadways.

I'd personally like to see the law changed, and camera enforcement allowed in the state.

That's for the information, okcpd! I have a few questions:
How can we get cameras in OKC especially at intersections?
How common is it for you to encounter vehicles driving below the posted minimum speed limit?
How often do you ticket slow drivers impeding the flow of traffic vs. how often you ticket speeding drivers endangering the safety of others?
Under what circumstances is a driver allowed to exceed the maximum speed?

[okcpd]

That's for the information, okcpd! I have a few questions:
How can we get cameras in OKC especially at intersections?
How common is it for you to encounter vehicles driving below the posted minimum speed limit?
How often do you ticket slow drivers impeding the flow of traffic vs. how often you ticket speeding drivers endangering the safety of others?
Under what circumstances is a driver allowed to exceed the maximum speed?

Cameras at intersections are currently only for research purposes. Under state law, a ticket cannot be issued based on camera info. alone.

Very seldom do I encounter someone driving under the minimum speed. More often, the problem is drivers going over the speed limit. And I don't mean 5mph over. I mean 20-30 mph over the limit. We usually don't ticket for speeding under 10mph over the limit on highways, and under 5mph over the limit on city streets. We call that a speed cushion. School zones are an exception.

Typically, we ticket speeders going 80+ mph on the highway, which obviously is putting the lives of others at risk. Losing control of a motor vehicle is 10 times more likely at such speeds. Tire blow outs can also result from excessive speeds.

Under what circumstances is a driver allowed to exceed the maximum speed? My answer to that question is under very few circumstances. Certain emergencies might be exempted. For example, a pregnant mother giving birth, someone being rushed to the ER with a serious emergency, a physician being called to a serious situation at a hospital, etc. might be possible exemptions to the above. Often times, we'll escort the person in those instances for safety reasons, if they're caught speeding.

In my 10 years on the force, I've never written a ticket for driving below posted minimum speed limits.

[quailcreekgal]

Thank you for the information is what I meant in my previous email and here it is again, thank you for the info and for helping me stay safe on the roadways!

[Karried]

The police department has a policy against code three on most calls. However, they are allowed to travel at high speed to answer priority calls. That is what is happening when you see them fly down the freeway or street. They are not racing to beat the crowd to the donut shop.

Oh for goodness sake! You truly cannot believe that you know what is happening with every police officer traveling at a high rate of speed - that is ridiculous - Even the police officers on this board would admit to seeing others speed or even doing it themselves.

[mranderson]

One of the things we have discussed in the citizens police academy is how they handle priority calls. plus the cop I did the ride along with confirmed it.

[Karried]

I'm sure there are many priority calls but I'm also sure that some ( not all) police officers travel above the speed limit ... But, I don't think they are heading for doughnuts!

[1Adam12]

Oh for goodness sake! You truly cannot believe that you know what is happening with every police officer traveling at a high rate of speed - that is ridiculous - Even the police officers on this board would admit to seeing others speed or even doing it themselves.

Unfortunately, there are officers out there that do speed for no reason, other than they know they can do it and get by with it. Most of the ones that do this are rookies, or officers who have been on the force less than 5 years. These rookies give us veterans a bad name because they are trying to be hot shots.

Mranderson is right about one thing. Many times when I am on a priority call, ie.., burglary in progress, bad domestic fight, or something else where a weapon may be involved, I may be the closest officer responding to the call. If I am a long ways off, I will hop on the highway, hit the left lane, and let the hammer down. Remember, the left lane is considered the passing lane, so, unless someone is passing someone else, nobody should be in that lane for a long length of time.

I will cruise 80-85 MPH, in order to get to my call in a timely manner. If traffic is moderate to heavy, I will turn on my front and back strobes, but I will not turn on my overheads or use my siren. What you may not realize is that when we run with lights and siren, the normal everyday driver will panic and slam on their brakes, or they will move over two lanes to get out of my way, possibly causing an accident. Motorists freak out when they see lights and hear a siren. Just ask any OHP Trooper that has had to run C-3 to an accident.

That's why I try not to use any lights unless I have to. Let me suggest that if you see an officer driving at an excessive speed, get his vehicle number, and call one of the briefing stations, and ask to speak with the commanding officer. Like you, I don't condone these rookies speeding just because they feel they can.

[mranderson]

One other thing. The donut comment was a joke. Most cops do not do donuts anymore. Too fattening. Plus Geralds has only one location.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

What an interesting thread, and a very long one. It may take me three days to go through all of these posts.LOL . .

. . . I have also noticed that a few posters have admitted that they love to give other drivers "the bird." I noticed one poster even thinks it is rather humurous to do so, but it is one of the most dangerous, stupid, things you could ever do. More road rage happens when hand gestures are made to other motorists.

Then, the one that makes the hand gestures, which started the whole problem, wants me to cite the other driver. I don't cite drivers because of other drivers' stupidity. . .

. . . Have a safe evening. I hope to come back to this forum more often.

Perhaps when you return, you will reread some of the posts I made on this thread and perhaps with a slightly less serious eye and a more open mind. If you don't get the joke or see the humour, that works for me too.

Thanks for the difficult job you do Adam, and BTW, I have never given the finger to a single police officer.

[windowphobe]

I get along great with the cops, mainly because I try not to give them any extra work.

[quailcreekgal]

It's so nice to have professional law enforcement contributors to this thread to share the facts about speeding, law enforcement and first-hand professional experience. It obviously made a difference in this thread. Thanks again 1Adam12 and okcpd for being the voices of reason and keeping us safe!

[bandnerd]

Okay, quailcreekgal, we get it. You don't like speeders. You love cops. We've all agreed that speeding is illegal. We all know the penalty. Let's all move on to another thread.