The Pulse (formerly downtown Holiday Inn)

[caaokc]

The previous iteration of this building was featured a few times in the new Duggar doc on Prime. Biiiiig yikes

[soonerguru]

Any question as to whether IBLP was or was not a cult is cleared up in the Prime doc. It is and was a scary cult. So, it's weird also to see OKC referenced in Shiny Happy People: the Hobby Lobby Greens were financial supporters of IBLP; Elise Hall of Hall's Pizza Kitchen is name-dropped although it's not clear what her connection to IBLP was: and, of course, the building, which was one of the IBLP's so-called training centers. Minor children were sent there for "character" training, and it's mentioned in the documentary that the set-up was ripe for mental, physical, and sexual abuse.

[Pete]

$1.9 million in TIF for this project.

[onthestrip]

$1.9 million in TIF for this project.

A classic example of where TIF benefits a speculator and warps the free market. This property should be selling for $1.9 million less if there is no way for a redevelopment to make sense without TIF. I guarantee you the seller was pointing the buyer to OCURA the entire time, telling them you can get a TIF here, as they continued to ask for a high selling price.

[Mountaingoat]

A classic example of where TIF benefits a speculator and warps the free market. This property should be selling for $1.9 million less if there is no way for a redevelopment to make sense without TIF. I guarantee you the seller was pointing the buyer to OCURA the entire time, telling them you can get a TIF here, as they continued to ask for a high selling price.

Care to show your evidence or are you just spitballing a conspiracy?

[onthestrip]

Care to show your evidence or are you just spitballing a conspiracy?

1. Because this and many similar downtown properties sit idle for for years, asking price never reduced, and then only get a deal done when a TIF is involved.
2. Some of these sellers tell buyers they can get TIF money for their projects, but of course wont reduce their asking price.

If TIF wasnt a thing, this deal either wouldnt happen or the seller would have to come down on his price so a buyer could make redeveloping the property make financial sense. This isnt some grand redevelopment plan, its pretty simple. But that it still couldnt happen without a TIF tells me it was overpriced by the seller.

With as many TIF projects in the downtown area, its impossible that it hasnt skewed the property value market.

[Rover]

1. Because this and many similar downtown properties sit idle for for years, asking price never reduced, and then only get a deal done when a TIF is involved.
2. Some of these sellers tell buyers they can get TIF money for their projects, but of course wont reduce their asking price.

If TIF wasnt a thing, this deal either wouldnt happen or the seller would have to come down on his price so a buyer could make redeveloping the property make financial sense. This isnt some grand redevelopment plan, its pretty simple. But that it still couldnt happen without a TIF tells me it was overpriced by the seller.

With as many TIF projects in the downtown area, its impossible that it hasnt skewed the property value market.

Just curious if there was a professionally performed independent valuation done on the property? Appraisals would help indicate true market value.

Was the sales contract contingent on TIF money being approved or was buyer obligated regardless? Did sale close before tif money authorized?

[onthestrip]

Just curious if there was a professionally performed independent valuation done on the property? Appraisals would help indicate true market value.

Was the sales contract contingent on TIF money being approved or was buyer obligated regardless? Did sale close before tif money authorized?

Im sure none of these deals close without assurance or being at least 99% sure that TIF money will be given.

[Rover]

Im sure none of these deals close without assurance or being at least 99% sure that TIF money will be given.

You are SURE?

The seller can't make the assurance. If they promised it with 99% certainty and it didn't happen, they would be liable. If they promised without having the authority, that is fraud. If you can prove that a pre arranged offer of tif was made and accepted, I believe there would be legal implications. So WHO issues the assurance? And what bank accepts a promise of something that isn't documented as part of the valuation for lending purposes. And what investor is getting the assurance?

Lots of accusations and implications and not a lot of lines connecting dots. Who promised? Who implied? Who made decisions on those promises? What was exchanged for those promises? What values did those promises have in the deal. Who, who, who? What, what, what? When, when, when? Why, why, why?

[onthestrip]

You are SURE?

The seller can't make the assurance. If they promised it with 99% certainty and it didn't happen, they would be liable. If they promised without having the authority, that is fraud. If you can prove that a pre arranged offer of tif was made and accepted, I believe there would be legal implications. So WHO issues the assurance? And what bank accepts a promise of something that isn't documented as part of the valuation for lending purposes. And what investor is getting the assurance?

Lots of accusations and implications and not a lot of lines connecting dots. Who promised? Who implied? Who made decisions on those promises? What was exchanged for those promises? What values did those promises have in the deal. Who, who, who? What, what, what? When, when, when? Why, why, why?

Of course the seller cant make that assurance but Im saying they are selling their property with the line that a buyer can get TIF money. They'll gladly point the buyer right to OCURA and probably Cathy Oconnor now and mention how lots of TIF money has been awarded for similar properties. Its not some crazy conspiracy, I've experienced it myself! I will assume you've heard of due diligence or inspection periods and that it can continue on as a buyer looks at securing lots of things like financing, rezoning, site plan approvals, and yes, TIF packages. I guarantee many of these deals dont close until TIF money is secured in some way.

[Mountaingoat]

Sounds like a lot of guarantees.

[Rover]

Of course the seller cant make that assurance but Im saying they are selling their property with the line that a buyer can get TIF money. They'll gladly point the buyer right to OCURA and probably Cathy Oconnor now and mention how lots of TIF money has been awarded for similar properties. Its not some crazy conspiracy, I've experienced it myself! I will assume you've heard of due diligence or inspection periods and that it can continue on as a buyer looks at securing lots of things like financing, rezoning, site plan approvals, and yes, TIF packages. I guarantee many of these deals dont close until TIF money is secured in some way.

Guaranteed the tif is guaranteed before the deal is closed. Interesting.

[Pete]

Guaranteed the tif is guaranteed before the deal is closed. Interesting.

It would not be unusual that closing would be contingent on getting TIF and other financing.

[Rover]

It would not be unusual that closing would be contingent on getting TIF and other financing.

Different than being guaranteed before it is done. We need to find out who is guaranteeing it or implying it is guaranteed and on what basis they are guaranteeing.

Can tif be approved before it is owned by the applicant?

[Pete]

Can tif be approved before it is owned by the applicant?

Yes, that's common. It's just not paid out until parameters are met (such as actually closing on the property, making certain investment, etc.).

And as I've explained, by the time we see anything about a TIF award on a public agenda, it's already a done deal. Literally a 100% approval rate by the subcommittees and city council. Which tells you it's all negotiated and the approving parties have already been briefed long before it becomes public. I know that's the way it works because council and committee members have told me so.

[Pete]

City Council formally approved the $2.9 million TIF grant for this project yesterday.

The redevelopers are from Georgia and already own several apartment complexes around OKC.

The average rent is $875. They are basically converting the old hotel rooms -- almost all are just over 300 SF -- into studios with kitchenettes.

They also mentioned they will be cutting a deal with the City for about 200 spaces in the adjacent garage which is less than half occupied.

[PhiAlpha]

City Council formally approved the $2.9 million TIF grant for this project yesterday.

The redevelopers are from Georgia and already own several apartment complexes around OKC.

The average rent is $875. They are basically converting the old hotel rooms -- almost all are just over 300 SF -- into studios with kitchenettes.

They also mentioned they will be cutting a deal with the City for about 200 spaces in the adjacent garage which is less than half occupied.

So they ARE going to at least attempt to use the old bar/restaurant space! Cool!

[Pete]

Looks like some work is starting.

The new owners completed the purchase last month.

[Ryan]

I hope they get that IBLP smell out of it

[Pete]

[fortpatches]

Did you take these on Sunday?

[Pete]

Did you take these on Sunday?

Yes, around 9 AM.

[OkieBerto]

Quad Construction has started on this project. They have their logo on the fences and dumpsters out front being filled.