UCO Neighborhood Plan (UCO’s “Campus Corner”)

[AFCM]

I searched the site before posting, but if this is a repost, I request that moderators delete it and forgive my oversight.

Anyway, I just received an email survey from UCO inquiring about my thoughts on proposed development near UCO that would model Campus Corner-type districts at OU and OSU.

Here’s the description provided in the email:

The University of Central Oklahoma (UCO) and the City of Edmond are conducting a plan for the neighborhood between North Boulevard and University Drive from East 2nd Street to East Thatcher Street. This effort could include consideration of a new commercial district catering to the greater university community like other Campus Corner districts in Stillwater and Norman. We are curious to learn more about what types of businesses, services, and spaces are most needed in this part of Edmond and would be best supported by the greater university community.

And here’s an aerial view of the site under consideration:

[Anonymous.]

Edmonds "going out" scene is horrendous, so yes this would be cool if it was mostly restaurant and bar oriented.

What does Edmond have in that category currently?

Wolftrap
Majors
Patriarch
Skinny Slims
Maybe a couple Henry Hudsons?

[AFCM]

As I looked over the map, I realized that UCO already owns much of the property under consideration and presently uses it for student and faculty parking. I definitely want a UCO Campus Corner, but I hope that the university and the city are able to develop it in such a way that doesn’t make an already bad parking situation worse.

[AFCM]

Edmonds "going out" scene is horrendous, so yes this would be cool if it was mostly restaurant and bar oriented.

What does Edmond have in that category currently?

Wolftrap
Majors
Patriarch
Skinny Slims
Maybe a couple Henry Hudsons?

The survey inquired about dining and bar options (traditional bar or pub, sports bar and grill, fast-casual, sit-down service, etc.) , as well as a coffee shop, UCO-themed retail (I’m guessing like an extension of the campus bookstore), convenience store, grocery store, etc.

The planners appear to be approaching this with a blank slate and want to know what the campus and surrounding communities want and need. As I’m a commuter, I don’t live in Edmond, but I’d wholeheartedly welcome a Campus Corner if it’s done right.

[scottk]

The survey inquired about dining and bar options (traditional bar or pub, sports bar and grill, fast-casual, sit-down service, etc.) , as well as a coffee shop, UCO-themed retail (I’m guessing like an extension of the campus bookstore), convenience store, grocery store, etc.

The planners appear to be approaching this with a blank slate and want to know what the campus and surrounding communities want and need. As I’m a commuter, I don’t live in Edmond, but I’d wholeheartedly welcome a Campus Corner if it’s done right.

I think that is the biggest difference between a campus corner in Edmond, versus a campus corner in Norman or Stillwater.

UCO doesn't function like OU or OSU. While the current enrollment is around 12,000 - 14,000 students, unlike OU/OSU there isn't abundant or required on-campus housing, maybe around 1500 beds between the dorms and apartments on the campus. Most of UCO's students commute and drive from all parts of the metro, it's one of the things that makes it convenient to students who want to save money and live at home or off-campus. UCO has a lot of things going for it, but what may work in Norman or Stillwater in regards to night life or weekend activities, doesn't really work on a campus like UCO where most of the campus is alive during the day, but much quieter during off-hours.

If you are driving from Yukon or Del City to attend classes at UCO, you are more than likely driving right back home or to work after your class.

Downtown Edmond has really added a lot of solid local dining options, and 2nd street is filled with just about every college quick chain dining place, so I am not sure what really would work in this location, as it is off the main streets of Edmond to attract a non-campus population. The burger place on University, FlatTire Burger, has probably been there for over a decade, so maybe there is some solid footing for other places to succeed?

[AFCM]

I think that is the biggest difference between a campus corner in Edmond, versus a campus corner in Norman or Stillwater.

UCO doesn't function like OU or OSU. While the current enrollment is around 12,000 - 14,000 students, unlike OU/OSU there isn't abundant or required on-campus housing, maybe around 1500 beds between the dorms and apartments on the campus. Most of UCO's students commute and drive from all parts of the metro, it's one of the things that makes it convenient to students who want to save money and live at home or off-campus. UCO has a lot of things going for it, but what may work in Norman or Stillwater in regards to night life or weekend activities, doesn't really work on a campus like UCO where most of the campus is alive during the day, but much quieter during off-hours.

If you are driving from Yukon or Del City to attend classes at UCO, you are more than likely driving right back home or to work after your class.

Downtown Edmond has really added a lot of solid local dining options, and 2nd street is filled with just about every college quick chain dining place, so I am not sure what really would work in this location, as it is off the main streets of Edmond to attract a non-campus population. The burger place on University, FlatTire Burger, has probably been there for over a decade, so maybe there is some solid footing for other places to succeed?

I get what you’re saying, but UCO seems to be trying to change its academic standing, athletics, student life, and overall campus vibe. Not only is the university looking to move to D1/FCS, it’s been recently holding meetings about increasing research on campus. I know of the latter only because I had to walk through a maze of catering and people in suits when I went to my class in the STEM building one morning. When I asked my professor what was going on, he mentioned that the university was trying to sell donors, alumni, etc. on the idea of becoming an R2 university, which I don’t see happening anytime soon. But still, the school appears to be trying to change its image as just a small commuter school or glorified community college. I mean, it fits the school’s motto: “Where Movement Is.”

[cinnamonjock]

Does UCO have a parking garage? I don't remember there being one when I went there. All of this parking could be consolidated in a garage and these lots developed. That would be the most effective thing UCO could do to convince prospective students that it isn't just a commuter school, but that its worth living on/near campus. UCO just has a reputation that its where you go when you can't get into OU/OSU and that's a shame.

[PhiAlpha]

A campus corner type set up, on campus housing/culture and lack of division 1 athletics are the three biggest elements holding UCO back from seeming like a big time university and providing that type of experience IMO. Add those things combined with the improvements in the retail/dining/bar/housing scene in downtown Edmond over the last decade and I think people will start to view UCO a lot differently than the commuter school rep it has now. Edmond could actually be a pretty cool college town if they make a few moves. They have more than enough land to do whatever they need/want to and a city council that would likely be behind it.

[AFCM]

Does UCO have a parking garage?

No. Unfortunately, we do not, but I hope that will change soon.

All of this parking could be consolidated in a garage and these lots developed. That would be the most effective thing UCO could do to convince prospective students that it isn't just a commuter school, but that it’s worth living on/near campus.

Agreed.

UCO just has a reputation that its where you go when you can't get into OU/OSU and that's a shame.

I didn’t realize that was a sentiment that people held. I attend UCO because it has the program that I’m studying via VA vocational rehabilitation (Medical Laboratory Science), while neither OU nor OSU has the option. But aside from that, a huge draw for me was when I toured both campuses. UCO was just over 200 acres, whereas OU was close to 3,500, if I remember correctly. I love UCO’s smaller footprint, but I’m definitely hoping that the university improves its campus life because I feel that the school has a lot of potential for improvement.

[AFCM]

A campus corner type set up, on campus housing/culture and lack of division 1 athletics are the three biggest elements holding UCO back from seeming like a big time university and providing that type of experience IMO. Add those things combined with the improvements in the retail/dining/bar/housing scene in downtown Edmond over the last decade and I think people will start to view UCO a lot differently than the commuter school rep it has now. Edmond could actually be a pretty cool college town if they make a few moves. They have more than enough land to do whatever they need/want to and a city council that would likely be behind it.

I’m hoping for the best. I know that nothing will go down while I’m there, but I would love to return for a homecoming game against a D1 program and thereafter enjoy Campus Corner. And you’re right by noting that Edmond could really benefit as a town if the city and university play their cards right.

[Midtowner]

Folks whine about the parking situation at UCO and I really don't think it's all that bad. You just have to be prepared to park a ways out from your classes and hoof it in or learn to hover and get there early with no guarantees. UCO is still pretty far down off of its high water mark in enrollment and has only been adding parking since then.

If they did add a parking garage, it would only be done under the guise of improving revenue and would likely be located in the spot where they have that paid visitors lot by the UC.

They've been talking about a campus corner sort of thing for 20+ years. Maybe the City could help them along by designating an area and preemptively zoning it in order to fight off the NIMBYs. There are a lot of apartments popping up in the area and they aren't all student occupied, so I can imagine there would be a lot of folks and families who would make a stink about someone wanting to develop a bar 200 feet from their front door.

[jn1780]

As I looked over the map, I realized that UCO already owns much of the property under consideration and presently uses it for student and faculty parking. I definitely want a UCO Campus Corner, but I hope that the university and the city are able to develop it in such a way that doesn’t make an already bad parking situation worse.

It doesn't lookup it would affect that much parking. Its a tiny fraction of the universities overall parking.

[jn1780]

Does UCO have a parking garage? I don't remember there being one when I went there. All of this parking could be consolidated in a garage and these lots developed. That would be the most effective thing UCO could do to convince prospective students that it isn't just a commuter school, but that its worth living on/near campus. UCO just has a reputation that its where you go when you can't get into OU/OSU and that's a shame.

Does it have that reputation or that just a few elitists talking? I went to UCO because it was cheaper and I lived nearby. I would hate to know what those people think about OCCC or career tech students.

[TheTravellers]

Does it have that reputation or that just a few elitists talking? I went to UCO because it was cheaper and I lived nearby. I would hate to know what those people think about OCCC or career tech students.

Yeah, if people think that, they're wrong. I had high enough SATs to apply for and get accepted to both Harvard and Yale, but no way could I go to them (moving, financial). I ended up going to CSU (as it was known then) because it was close to home and I got a scholarship there for the first year (but went into a cooperative education program after that, so had to pay for none of my tuition or books for my entire time there).

[cinnamonjock]

I graduated from UCO because I chose to go there, but among high-schoolers in the metro, UCO is definitely considered a safety school. Particularly for those who live in Edmond.

[Midtowner]

Does it have that reputation or that just a few elitists talking? I went to UCO because it was cheaper and I lived nearby. I would hate to know what those people think about OCCC or career tech students.

And I'd say like anything, it probably depends on the program, but for undergrad programs especially, UCO has much lower class sizes than OU and OSU and some of its programs have a better reputation academically--lke UCO's accounting program.

I can say that I went to UCO with the intention of transferring to OU after a year or two of knocking out gen ed requirements, but ended up being super active on campus, ended up with a scholarship, and it made sense to finish out there.

[rayvaflav]

Along University, as far as dining and drinking, you could put in a Del Rancho (complete with phones at the booths), a Crockett's Smokehouse and a college-themed bar, let's call it The Scholar's Inn. And then, ya know, it's 1981.

[scottk]

No matter what may or may not go in along this stretch, one thing that will make it different and a challenge to survive as a business compared to Campus Corner's in Stillwater and Norman is overall annual customer traffic flow throughout the year.

While UCO has between 10-12k current students, the majority (80-90%) are commuters, and a good number of those commuters are driving from across the metro, as opposed to living right next to campus. There are long stretches of the year the UCO campus is basically empty with semester breaks and summer sessions. The commuter students can be a good lunch crowd, but lots of advertising will need to be done to pull this crowd away from the go-to fast food chains on 2nd Street.

OU and OSU Campus Corner's have the benefit of 6 or 7 Saturday's in the fall where they can easily get 50% of their business for the entire year thanks to home football games bringing in 50 to 80k additional people that want to spend money, that can help the business survive during lower traffic times of the year.

As a person who drives through Edmond daily, you can definitely tell the campus has been empty for the past month for the semester break as driving along 2nd Street during the lunch hour is a breeze compared to when students are back in session.

[Bored UCO Student]

No matter what may or may not go in along this stretch, one thing that will make it different and a challenge to survive as a business compared to Campus Corner's in Stillwater and Norman is overall annual customer traffic flow throughout the year.

While UCO has between 10-12k current students, the majority (80-90%) are commuters, and a good number of those commuters are driving from across the metro, as opposed to living right next to campus. There are long stretches of the year the UCO campus is basically empty with semester breaks and summer sessions. The commuter students can be a good lunch crowd, but lots of advertising will need to be done to pull this crowd away from the go-to fast food chains on 2nd Street.

OU and OSU Campus Corner's have the benefit of 6 or 7 Saturday's in the fall where they can easily get 50% of their business for the entire year thanks to home football games bringing in 50 to 80k additional people that want to spend money, that can help the business survive during lower traffic times of the year.

As a person who drives through Edmond daily, you can definitely tell the campus has been empty for the past month for the semester break as driving along 2nd Street during the lunch hour is a breeze compared to when students are back in session.

This is part of the reason UCO has a hard time with student-retention. Part of this sure is due to lack of student-housing but it works in conjunction with an overall focus on car-centric development in the UCO and Edmond area for decades. You have no reason to come to campus or even Edmond other than class and you sure don't have a reason to stay unless you are in Greek life or some other student org. All of which are comparatively small and underfunded in relation to the enrollment size of the University. There is no sense of place, community, or school pride (except for probably a group of 400-700 fellow undergraduates, shout out my ppl ofc) as it genuinely feels like a Community College or it did for my first 3 years. I do think the new President, who I really did not like the choice of, has done a good job doing what he can to change the culture and promote those values over the course of the last year. It's definitely nice and I wish I wasn't a Senior when it was happening.

A decent neighborhood, with quality and different housing options, quality nightlife for students that isn't one singular bar (that's older than my parents), more dining options, in general just more things in the area around UCO would be such a huge boon to both current students and attracting new students.

For me and I believe a lot of others share this opinion, my experience in college and the friends I made felt extremely hard to obtain. It truly felt like pulling teeth or running face first into a brick wall trying to get to know people on campus because everybody there simply wanted to go and get out. Nobody hung around to talk or get to know fellow students as the environment they were in was not supportive of it. It felt the exact opposite and almost intentionally designed in order to get you in and immediately back out which works great for CCs but not for 4-year universities where you want to students to STAY and get their degree from.

Actually feeling like a college town or a college neighborhood would at least, in my opinion, be such a strength for the University and changing the current culture of the student base.

[Midtowner]

Very true. UCO would be very smart to partner with Greek Life more than they have to create a better sense of campus. A Greek Village, for example, would be a huge benefit. UCO would just have to back off of the demand to be allowed warantless searches of the premises by DPS--something which they can technically do in all student housing, but you know they'd unfairly (or maybe fairly) target Greek orgs. Back in my day, what always made OU and OSU have more vibrant campus life was the on-campus housing--the god awful towers where Freshmen had to live.

UCO is going to always have problems in that there are really no affordable housing options in the area. It was a huge mistake to tear down the old residence halls and not erect similar student housing in their place. Instead, they have the commons, which is just a conveniently located apartment complex with no real university vibe to it.

I think Lamb is going to be good for UCO in the long run.

[scottk]

UCO is going to always have problems in that there are really no affordable housing options in the area. It was a huge mistake to tear down the old residence halls and not erect similar student housing in their place. Instead, they have the commons, which is just a conveniently located apartment complex with no real university vibe to it.

That problem is not unique to UCO.

OSU, OU and other universities across the country have been in the process of tearing down their traditional basic dorm towers that had a smaller two person twin bed rooms and community bathrooms on each floor and replacing them with housing that reflects what most students are wanting to live on campus. This is typically a more modern room that may offer some level of privacy (apartment style) or a private bathroom that is only shared with a room mate or suite mates.

UCO still has traditional dorms in Murdaugh Hall (built in the 1930's) and West Hall (built in the 1960's). They are both only three stories and are the cheapest housing on campus.

UCO did tear down East Hall about 20-25 years ago and replaced the space with The Quad about 10 years ago, which offers the closest thing to a typical dorm room with modern amenities and student comfort for privacy at UCO. If UCO were to build more student housing, I imagine they would follow this model. They also built a new dining hall around 2020.

As for affordability, you are correct. Newer housing demands higher prices. UCO has their housing rates for students posted. The cheapest option is $4600 an academic year in a standard dorm room with a roommate and I believe that living in the dorms, students are required to also have a weekly meal plan which ranges from $1900 to $2725 a semester.

https://www.uco.edu/students/housing...-ratesheet.pdf

It would be interesting to see how those prices compare to a student getting a two or three bedroom apartment with friends off campus. Of course the cheapest option, if you live in the OKC metro, would be to continue to live at home for a few years and commute on the days you have classes, you just have to deal with traffic and parking every time you come to campus.

I think it is safe to say that UCO has always attracted a budget conscious student. UCO has been known in the past to provide one of the best "bangs for buck" in what it offers. Its central location is definitely convenient for those that can save money and commute.

[Midtowner]

I was there when they tore down East Hall. Before they did it, it was used for a huge training exercise for various fire departments treating and recovering victims from a mass casualty event. Myself and another student did a 30-minute special coverage program which ran on 22 for a few years.

[oklip955]

I was there when they tore down East Hall. Before they did it, it was used for a huge training exercise for various fire departments treating and recovering victims from a mass casualty event. Myself and another student did a 30-minute special coverage program which ran on 22 for a few years.

I was one of those people attending the training class. This was put on by nationally known experts in the field of urban search and rescue. Since Edmond hosted it, they got to send a few of our firefighters to it for no cost. Many of those attending from out of state and I can say it was not a cheap class. Edmond has since then hosted a number of classes that have attracted attendees from around the country. This is a good think. These folks fly and drive into our metro, stay at our hotels and shop our stores. They go home with a great impression of the Okc metro.

[oklip955]

Also as one who responded many times to false alarms at East and West hall, I can tell you that East hall was in bad shape.

[scottk]

I was there when they tore down East Hall. Before they did it, it was used for a huge training exercise for various fire departments treating and recovering victims from a mass casualty event. Myself and another student did a 30-minute special coverage program which ran on 22 for a few years.

I remember that special around 2002 or 2003 on Edmond's Cox cable, KSCU 22. Kevin T. and Kasey J. were the anchors/host. After the training exercise, the building set vacant half destroyed for a few months over the summer before UCO started the demolition process, right around the time the Wellness Center opened on the north end of campus.