OU Academic Rankings

[Pete]

^

And attracts bright minds which is key to growing the economy rather than buying factories and call centers with taxpayer money.

[Teo9969]

Funding literally plays a MASSIVE role in those rankings. If the state, tomorrow, said we're going to double funding for state universities, every universities ranking would go up almost overnight (it might take 2 or 3 years to show up)

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...d-the-rankings

It's ridiculous how much of that is tied to funding. Well over 50% of methodological ratting is impacted substantially by funding.

Not any public university's fault our rankings suck.

[Bunty]

US News rankings for Graduate schools released. I maybe an outlier to most on this board, but I am really disappointed in OU academic rankings. Engineering (110), Business (86). Health (74). Law (88). Undergrad (127). Listen I love OU football, however, the relatively low ranking of the States supposed Flagship university in almost every meaningful category ( I get Petroleum engineering, dance etc) is shameful. I love football as much as anyone but the apparent willingness to excel at football at any cost and languish in academics saddens me. Oh, by the way I am an OU graduate.

Why not as an OU graduate just be greatly thankful that OU beat OSU in the ratings in so many ways except in education? But OSU ranked only #70 in education is something to be ashamed about not proud of. I find it highly amusing that OSU's quite highly fancy new business building with all the many pillars lining the front of it could not beat OU for business. I'm not one of them, but if I was a wealthy OSU business alumnus who gave a bunch of money to raise that new business building, then I would now feel being mighty pissed off!

But still as lowly rated as OU is, it seems to me since the Oklahoma Legislature won't do it that wealthy OU alumni need to step it up much greater than ever in donating big money to OU to build new updated academic buildings as well as give money to pay professors better. After all, I'm sure the various coaches in the OU sports dept. are quite well highly paid from the result of HUGE donations. So, why not value education just as much in Oklahoma! Imagine great OU professors in their fields being paid as much as $1 million dollars a year!!

[Edmond Hausfrau]

I graduated from OU undergraduate in 1992 and the academics then were relatively "lackluster". One big problem I recall was that they were having to provide basic remedial classes in English, math, etc. just to get many " high school graduates" up to speed, the bulk of which came out of public schools. So when they hired Boren, his goal was for OU to surpass the private universities in the number of National Merit Scholars and they were successful. He also pushed for Rhodes, Fulbright applications at OU. Cash rolled in for research on the OU Health Sciences Center end. Of course, in the end Boren was doing other things that were of no value to the university and wrecked his reputation, but I think having a university president who dreams big with regards to academic success and stacks the classes with high achieving students goes a long way in the rankings help long-term.

[Midtowner]

Also, 99% of my day in practice consists of nothing that was covered/taught in law school.

Can confirm that just about any information you practiced with for the Bar Exam is unlikely to be relevant when/if you end up as a litigator. As mentioned above, I imagine it's similar to all professions. I do appreciate some aspects of the MBE though in that some of the general/specific intent stuff can be pretty helpful later on, but it's funny again that we spend so much preparing lawyers to practice criminal law when so few end up practicing it, let alone will ever see the inside of a courtroom.

[Bill Robertson]

Can confirm that just about any information you practiced with for the Bar Exam is unlikely to be relevant when/if you end up as a litigator. As mentioned above, I imagine it's similar to all professions. I do appreciate some aspects of the MBE though in that some of the general/specific intent stuff can be pretty helpful later on, but it's funny again that we spend so much preparing lawyers to practice criminal law when so few end up practicing it, let alone will ever see the inside of a courtroom.

I engineering I wouldn't say no information is used in a career. But probably 75% you never need or use.

[Midtowner]

I engineering I wouldn't say no information is used in a career. But probably 75% you never need or use.

In the era of the new Bar Exam, they have completely ditched the Oklahoma content in favor of nationalized standard testing. The downside is that you don't need to know a word of Oklahoma law to pass the Oklahoma Bar Exam. The upside is that it costs the Bar association less and that a passing score gains you reciprocity in more places.

And there's something to the current ranking as OU tends to outdo OCU and TU.. but I went to OCU and passed the first time and am employed as a trial lawyer, which are the only stats which are relevant to me.

[Mesta Parker]

An article in the WSJ today cites a study that ranks OU 12th in the nation in the public university category for above average engineering salaries over the first 10 years of an engineering career. An OU engineering grad has an annual $11,350 salary premium compared to the average.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-col...dwebview_share

[LocoAko]

An article in the WSJ today cites a study that ranks OU 12th in the nation in the public university category for above average engineering salaries over the first 10 years of an engineering career. An OU engineering grad has an annual $11,350 salary premium compared to the average.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-col...dwebview_share

Interesting. I don't have access to the article, but I presume the preponderance of jobs in e.g. petroleum and aerospace engineering vs elsewhere is driving some of that?

[chssooner]

Interesting. I don't have access to the article, but I presume the preponderance of jobs in e.g. petroleum and aerospace engineering vs elsewhere is driving some of that?

Does there have to be a qualifier? I mean, if they didn't have a salary premium, they would be bashed again for not having higher salary-earning degrees.

[ditm4567]

In the era of the new Bar Exam, they have completely ditched the Oklahoma content in favor of nationalized standard testing. The downside is that you don't need to know a word of Oklahoma law to pass the Oklahoma Bar Exam. The upside is that it costs the Bar association less and that a passing score gains you reciprocity in more places.

And there's something to the current ranking as OU tends to outdo OCU and TU.. but I went to OCU and passed the first time and am employed as a trial lawyer, which are the only stats which are relevant to me.

Ha, we seem to be living very similar lives. Would be interested to know if we have crossed paths in practice!

[fortpatches]

In the era of the new Bar Exam, they have completely ditched the Oklahoma content in favor of nationalized standard testing. The downside is that you don't need to know a word of Oklahoma law to pass the Oklahoma Bar Exam. The upside is that it costs the Bar association less and that a passing score gains you reciprocity in more places.

And there's something to the current ranking as OU tends to outdo OCU and TU.. but I went to OCU and passed the first time and am employed as a trial lawyer, which are the only stats which are relevant to me.

I went to TU Law (graduated Dec. 15). I have no idea what's going on with their more recent lower pass rate numbers. I was an out-of-state test takers and that year our out of state pass rate was 100% (with most out-of-state takers taking the UBE).

* looked up pass rate for first-time takers by year.... *

Oh, TU dropped below the state average staring in Feb 2020...

I would be interested in seeing how TU's C19 response differed from that of OU (and OCU).

I realize this thread is about OU, but, anecdotally at least, professors/instructors at OSU seem to be of the opinion that academic performance has significantly decreased in students over the past few years.

[Midtowner]

Ha, we seem to be living very similar lives. Would be interested to know if we have crossed paths in practice!

It's a pretty small town.

[April in the Plaza]

In the era of the new Bar Exam, they have completely ditched the Oklahoma content in favor of nationalized standard testing. The downside is that you don't need to know a word of Oklahoma law to pass the Oklahoma Bar Exam. The upside is that it costs the Bar association less and that a passing score gains you reciprocity in more places.

And there's something to the current ranking as OU tends to outdo OCU and TU.. but I went to OCU and passed the first time and am employed as a trial lawyer, which are the only stats which are relevant to me.

isn't knowing the state's law a bit overrated these days, with the current state of legal research tools + AI? westlaw and lexis make things very easy.

just seems like it shouldn't be too hard for a diligent practitioner to quickly gain his sea legs unless it's a particularly nuanced area of the law.

[ditm4567]

I went to TU Law (graduated Dec. 15). I have no idea what's going on with their more recent lower pass rate numbers. I was an out-of-state test takers and that year our out of state pass rate was 100% (with most out-of-state takers taking the UBE).

* looked up pass rate for first-time takers by year.... *

Oh, TU dropped below the state average staring in Feb 2020...

I would be interested in seeing how TU's C19 response differed from that of OU (and OCU).

I realize this thread is about OU, but, anecdotally at least, professors/instructors at OSU seem to be of the opinion that academic performance has significantly decreased in students over the past few years.

Was that the same time TU announced they were also getting rid of majors/consolidating grad programs? I vaguely remember there being a shocking amount of rumblings that TU was going to close their law school...

[fortpatches]

Was that the same time TU announced they were also getting rid of majors/consolidating grad programs? I vaguely remember there being a shocking amount of rumblings that TU was going to close their law school...

I don't think anyone was under the impression that TU would lose their law school at that time. At that time, I think Janet Levit was interim provost of TU, after having been dean of the law school for a few years and substantially raising its rank (at least to #72 when I attended) during her tenure. Now, they are #118.

[aDark]

OU Law ranked 31st as recently as 2020. Since then, many tenured faculty members have retired and the rumor is the school was only allowed to hire one tenured-track faculty member a year. This led to a huge increase in the reliance on adjunct professors--particularly professors that had never taught before and held a full-time legal career outside of the school. Oklahoma also switched to the Universal Bar Exam (UBE) in 2021 and the faculty have not pivoted their teaching to reflect that. As a result, Bar passage rates recently have been terrible. Prior to 2021, OU Law enjoyed a passage rate of about 95%. In the four exams since then, passage rates for OU have been 88%, 50%, 82%, and 61%. Overall passage rates for the most recent Bar Exam were 37% (!). OU Law is still the best law school in Oklahoma, handedly out-performing TU and OCU (TU is ranked 118 and OCU is ranked 147-192, which is essentially unranked), but unless they get serious about acquiring good, long-term professors and focusing on the UBE, I fear they will continue to slip in the rankings.

Nah, OU Law will not continue to slip in the rankings. Current Dean is too fantastic. Smart money says rankings improve.

[Midtowner]

isn't knowing the state's law a bit overrated these days, with the current state of legal research tools + AI? westlaw and lexis make things very easy.

just seems like it shouldn't be too hard for a diligent practitioner to quickly gain his sea legs unless it's a particularly nuanced area of the law.

Unless you work for a big firm which pidgeonholes you into a particular area, most lawyers are going to be well served with a good working knowledge of as many areas as possible because they all tend to intersect--and if you work in smaller states like Oklahoma, Westlaw and Lexis do about a 2/12 star (out of 5 stars) job of indexing our law and tend to focus their resources on bigger markets.

And even if you have Lexist/Westlaw and can get an answer on a particular point, you need a good working knowledge of the law to know what question to ask or how to ask it. Your question makes it sound like anyone with The Googles can be a lawyer now, and unless you think your medical doctor could be a HS dropout with access to WebMD, I don't think that'd be quite accurate.

[aDark]

Per my post above: US News just published their law school rankings. OU College of Law is ranked 51st, the highest ranking the school has ever had. If you remove private schools, and compare OU College of Law against state law school funded publicly, we punch far far above our weight. Great things.

Here's some other recent notables re OU College of Law:

This ranking is the latest in a series of recent honors for OU Law, which have included:



Top 25 Best Value Law School in the Nation, National Jurist preLaw Magazine (Winter 2023)
#47 ATL Top 50 Law Schools, Above the Law (Summer 2022)
Top 20% of law schools nationally in employment, USNWR Academic Insights, 2024 Edition
Top 20% of law schools nationally in bar passage, USNWR Academic Insights, 2024 Edition
Apple Distinguished School: 2017–2019; 2019–2022, and 2022–2024 (only law school in the nation so designated)
Most Innovative Law School; Law Library of the Future (2022)
Lowest in-state tuition, Big 12; more than 25% lower than the average public law school nationally, ABA

[fortpatches]

Unless you work for a big firm which pidgeonholes you into a particular area, most lawyers are going to be well served with a good working knowledge of as many areas as possible because they all tend to intersect--and if you work in smaller states like Oklahoma, Westlaw and Lexis do about a 2/12 star (out of 5 stars) job of indexing our law and tend to focus their resources on bigger markets.

And even if you have Lexist/Westlaw and can get an answer on a particular point, you need a good working knowledge of the law to know what question to ask or how to ask it. Your question makes it sound like anyone with The Googles can be a lawyer now, and unless you think your medical doctor could be a HS dropout with access to WebMD, I don't think that'd be quite accurate.

Of unless you work for a Boutique. Both firms I have worked for, I have worked in a pretty narrow area of law, neither are Big Law or just big firms.

[Midtowner]

Of unless you work for a Boutique. Both firms I have worked for, I have worked in a pretty narrow area of law, neither are Big Law or just big firms.

I used the word most. Not all.

I agree. If you do title work for aircraft sales, having a working knowledge of criminal law, family law and trusts isn't going to be much help for you. Well.. at least until your 2nd cousin needs a divorce and your mother voluntells you to handle it.

[fortpatches]

I used the word most. Not all.

I agree. If you do title work for aircraft sales, having a working knowledge of criminal law, family law and trusts isn't going to be much help for you. Well.. at least until your 2nd cousin needs a divorce and your mother voluntells you to handle it.

The great thing about working in a specialized area - I always make it well know that "this is the only area of law I know" so I really havent gotten too many of those family law questions. But I still get some and I typically respond with something along the lines of "Sorry! I learned family law from a three hour podcast the night before I took the bar. I really don't remember any of it!" Plus, I don't think any of my family live in the jurisdictions I am licensed.

[Jersey Boss]

Per my post above: US News just published their law school rankings. OU College of Law is ranked 51st, the highest ranking the school has ever had. If you remove private schools, and compare OU College of Law against state law school funded publicly, we punch far far above our weight. Great things.

Here's some other recent notables re OU College of Law:

This ranking is the latest in a series of recent honors for OU Law, which have included:



Top 25 Best Value Law School in the Nation, National Jurist preLaw Magazine (Winter 2023)
#47 ATL Top 50 Law Schools, Above the Law (Summer 2022)
Top 20% of law schools nationally in employment, USNWR Academic Insights, 2024 Edition
Top 20% of law schools nationally in bar passage, USNWR Academic Insights, 2024 Edition
Apple Distinguished School: 2017–2019; 2019–2022, and 2022–2024 (only law school in the nation so designated)
Most Innovative Law School; Law Library of the Future (2022)
Lowest in-state tuition, Big 12; more than 25% lower than the average public law school nationally, ABA

Major props to the leadership of Dean Guzman.
As the first woman and hispanic to be the Dean, she has guided the OU Law School to new heights.