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Thread: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

  1. #51

    Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    ^^^ because California has ridiculous endless red tape laws, much higher construction and labor costs, and not to mention the fact that the connections to the major cities will require passing through mountains something that is no issue in Oklahoma. I-44 down turner should be a straight shot and could be done much cheaper than cali’s.

  2. Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    That ignores the other half of the comment about the existing line that has resources put in to it to bring it up to spec. And yet it still sits there....

  3. #53

    Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    The other line isn’t even worth considering. Average speed of 45MPH? That’s embarrassing.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    The other line isn’t even worth considering. Average speed of 45MPH? That’s embarrassing.
    The current average speed is less than 20MPH.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Mott View Post
    The current average speed is less than 20MPH.
    Isn’t it 0 since no passenger trains are present?

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Isn’t it 0 since no passenger trains are present?
    The speed of the freight trains SLWC presently runs. There hasn’t been passenger service since 1967 or so.

  7. Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    I guess you didn't read the article where it said that the upgrades were done to that line to make the average speed 60......

  8. #58

    Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by bombermwc View Post
    I guess you didn't read the article where it said that the upgrades were done to that line to make the average speed 60......
    So rail speed limits are kinda funny and I forgot to explain that before. The maximum allowable speed limit on any stretch of track is a function of the condition and state of repair of the track and roadbed, as well as track geometry. It is determined via regular track inspections and is regulated by the Federal Railroad Administration. There are 10 grades of track in the FRA's grading system that represent increasing levels of compliance with track geometry standards, and for each grade the FRA sets maximum allowable speeds for freight and passenger trains. When WATCO/Stillwater Central bought the Sooner Sub, they were required to inspect and repair the line to meet Class III standards, which does allow for a maximum permissible speed of 40mph for freight trains and 60mph for passenger trains - but railroads can post slower speed limits if they choose. It's sort of like how Broadway Extension is only signed for 60mph even though the road is well maintained and designed to permit higher speeds. This is a decent overview of how that all works: https://blog.railfandepot.com/your-q...-speed-limits/

    Further complicating matters, there are additional speed restrictions for lines that do not have any sort of block signal systems installed, like the Sooner Sub. This is known as "Dark Territory", and the Feds restrict passenger trains to a maximum of 60mph and freight trains to 50mph on such lines, even if they would otherwise qualify for a higher maximum speed (49 CFR 236.0(c)(2)).

    But given that Mott has gotten reports from actual railroad engineers that the line is currently 20mph with more than a dozen slow orders, that suggests to me that WATCO did the work to get it up to Class III to avoid the penalty under their purchase agreement, but then let maintenance lapse again after that provision was fulfilled. Slow orders are generally imposed when track inspections find deficiencies in sections of the track, or when curves, switches, or grade crossings require slower movements to navigate safely - sort of like road speed limits in construction zones and school zones.

    The more I learn about the Sooner Sub, the more I am realizing how much work and how much money would be needed to bring this line up to par to enable competitive passenger service. It *should* be possible, given that the line hosted at least 2 passenger trains a day in each direction way back when the line was owned and operated by the Frisco railroad. But conditions on the ground now are nowhere near as good as they used to be, sadly - and there doesn't seem to be any political will to fix the problems here. Building a new line that parallels I-44, as was proposed by ODOT back in 2009 (https://www.odot.org/recovery/hs_rail/final-fra.htm) would be even more expensive - but it would remove many of the barriers to entry that the Sooner Sub represents today.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Amtrak Expac Updates

    Good explanation of track speeds. The FRISCO ran a good Railroad, but remember it was built before 1900, and then, until the turnpike and interstate, was the fastest way between OKC and St.Louis

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