2023 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[s00nr1]

Time to turn the calendar over to 2023.

My biggest hope for this year - United stops sending CR2s and E145s to OKC and adds back the SFO nonstop.

[chssooner]

Boston and Portland, please. And Detroit. No reason OKC should not have all of the hubs in America covered.

[Celebrator]

I feel like the AS success to SEA might mean a shot at PDX--would be nice to have that important west coast metro area. And SFO, of course, needs to come back. That is an even bigger hole out west than PDX! And out east, it would be nice to have BWI on WN back and BOS would be so great. I would think since the BOS catchment area is so large, a DL or AA nonstop would be very successful even year-round. And getting the DTW flight back would be helpful for small east coast destination connections. Of course, getting back flights lost during the last several years is an obvious priority.

[BG918]

What is left to resume SFO, DTW and BWI? When does Southwest start OKC-BNA?

My biggest wish for TUL in 2023 is to get Alaska service to SEA. And to resume the flights lost in 2020 (MSP, DTW, BWI, IAD, EWR) and of course also add a Bay Area nonstop.

[warreng88]

I know this may not mean anything to anyone, but I have a brother and cousins that live in NYC proper. My brother lives in Brooklyn, my cousins live in Long Island. The AA direct flight from OKC to LaGuardia and vice versa has been a game changer for them. A lot of times, they would look for flights in DFW and then get a car and drive. Now, they book them at just the right time to where there is no savings to fly to DFW, they can fly straight in to OKC. My family flew into LGA the day before Thanksgiving and flew out the Monday after. Both flights were fully booked. My brother flew to OKC from LGA on 12/25 and flew back on 12/31, both flights fully booked. My cousin flew in from LGA on 12/27 and it was fully booked. She will be flying back on Wednesday morning and I will check to see if it is fully booked. I would love it if they increased to a few non-stops a day, but for now, I am ok with just the one.

[Celebrator]

I know this may not mean anything to anyone, but I have a brother and cousins that live in NYC proper. My brother lives in Brooklyn, my cousins live in Long Island. The AA direct flight from OKC to LaGuardia and vice versa has been a game changer for them. A lot of times, they would look for flights in DFW and then get a car and drive. Now, they book them at just the right time to where there is no savings to fly to DFW, they can fly straight in to OKC. My family flew into LGA the day before Thanksgiving and flew out the Monday after. Both flights were fully booked. My brother flew to OKC from LGA on 12/25 and flew back on 12/31, both flights fully booked. My cousin flew in from LGA on 12/27 and it was fully booked. She will be flying back on Wednesday morning and I will check to see if it is fully booked. I would love it if they increased to a few non-stops a day, but for now, I am ok with just the one.

No, it is exactly these stories that mean something to us all, that makes non-stops so valuable to a whole community. The more non-stops you have, the more your travel quality of life increases! Glad to hear these flights are fully booked. Hope they are outside of the busiest travel season of the year.

[therhett17]

Out of curiosity, why do we have yearly aviation threads instead of just one continuous one? None of the other threads start over each year (that I've seen).

[PaddyShack]

Out of curiosity, why do we have yearly aviation threads instead of just one continuous one? None of the other threads start over each year (that I've seen).

The weather one does, I only assume it is to keep the size and load in the site at a reasonable level, as this thread and the weather thread probably have the largest number of posts over time.

[gopokes88]

AA is the most valuable airline we have at OKC.

No one has consistently added better routes and frequency than them.

[Celebrator]

AA is the most valuable airline we have at OKC.

No one has consistently added better routes and frequency than them.

It's true. Just wish their quality was a bit better. Delta has been so nice to fly lately in my experience.

[HOT ROD]

Boston and Portland, please. And Detroit. No reason OKC should not have all of the hubs in America covered.

Again.

left off that KEY word. OKC did have ALL hubs in America covered in 2019.

Regarding SEA on AS, it used to do twice daily in 2019; that'd be great to get back or as was said - have one to Sea and one to PDX. I do agree we need OKC-SFO back on UA immediately. Time will tell.

[amocore]

I remember only 1 flight a day to Seattle. Regional planes first like E 190 then Alaska switched to A320 - B737.

Personal wishes OKC, flight to JFK for worldwide connection (although AA with DFW is great), Breeze coming back and a direct rotation to Cancun.

Happy new year !

[PaddyShack]

It's true. Just wish their quality was a bit better. Delta has been so nice to fly lately in my experience.

I will second this opinion. We have really enjoyed the last two trips we took, which both were on Delta. We took United for our honeymoon, which wasn't terrible, except I don't like Houston. I always seem to get stuck in Houston overnight due to weather, so not United's fault, except of it being a hub for United...

[LakeEffect]

Boston and Portland, please. And Detroit. No reason OKC should not have all of the hubs in America covered.

Delta did say that a big focus this year was to bring back service to their hubs this year... so we should see that again soon.

"The new year will also mark some big milestones for Delta. The airline plans to restore its core Atlanta, Detroit, and Minneapolis-St. Paul hubs to pre-pandemic capacity levels. According to executives, these hubs generate higher yields than its coastal hubs — Boston, Los Angeles, New York, and Seattle — where Delta focused its capacity recovery in 2022, thus next year’s capacity deployment is expected to generate outsized revenue growth. The airline’s core Salt Lake City hub has already recovered to pre-pandemic levels owing to the strength of leisure travel to outdoor-oriented destinations during the crisis."

https://airlineweekly.com/2022/12/de...hsfp=620022347

[chssooner]

It's been a long, LONG time since anything positive has happened, in terms of routes, for OKC. I wonder if the new Airport director is not as proactive in looking for new routes. Other airports are adding routes left and right, yet OKC has been stagnant, maybe even net negative in terms of perception and routes. Even with new gates. It is kind of sad.

For all the momentum this city has, the airport is an albatross around its neck.

[catch22]

The network planning department at any major airline does not know nor care who the airport director is. They receive hundreds of emails and phone calls a week from airports all over the country with their ground breaking proposals of nonstop service from Hays KS to Honolulu. The response is always the same: “thank you for that feedback, we will include it in our datasets and consider further expansion when the financial environment allows” the email then ends up in the Deleted folder like the other 300 emails that analyst received that week.

The airlines have vast amounts of data going back 50 years on passenger trends, demand, and profitability within their own network. They also subscribe to aggregate data firms that compile data from other airlines, cruise lines, hotels, rental cars, conventions, credit card loyalty signups (anonymous), credit card zip code (anonymous) at point of sale, and many other sources into overall demand trends. Trust me, the airlines know where people are flying from and to and how much they will pay for it. This is their business and they have gotten incredibly accurate in their financial predictions for a route. If it will make money they will operate it. The fruit tray from Norfolk airport and the cheese spread from Will Rogers at Christmas move the needle not one bit, but does provide some good interoffice snacking between emails about these exciting new routes from Amarillo.

[BG918]

The network planning department at any major airline does not know nor care who the airport director is. They receive hundreds of emails and phone calls a week from airports all over the country with their ground breaking proposals of nonstop service from Hays KS to Honolulu. The response is always the same: “thank you for that feedback, we will include it in our datasets and consider further expansion when the financial environment allows” the email then ends up in the Deleted folder like the other 300 emails that analyst received that week.

The airlines have vast amounts of data going back 50 years on passenger trends, demand, and profitability within their own network. They also subscribe to aggregate data firms that compile data from other airlines, cruise lines, hotels, rental cars, conventions, credit card loyalty signups (anonymous), credit card zip code (anonymous) at point of sale, and many other sources into overall demand trends. Trust me, the airlines know where people are flying from and to and how much they will pay for it. This is their business and they have gotten incredibly accurate in their financial predictions for a route. If it will make money they will operate it. The fruit tray from Norfolk airport and the cheese spread from Will Rogers at Christmas move the needle not one bit, but does provide some good interoffice snacking between emails about these exciting new routes from Amarillo.

I do think if an airport or city dangled millions of dollars in guarantees for a new route they would strongly consider it. I know there are instances of corporations subsidizing routes too.

[stlokc]

When St. Louis finally got its first European nonstop in a decade last year, it was Lufthansa to Frankfurt and one reason was subsidies for the route on the part of several local companies with operations in Germany. I think they gave millions of dollars.

[catch22]

True. We have financial incentives to offer is a different type of email than “Hey American, we would really like a direct flight to BigCity USA”

Financial incentives at OKC historically have only been marketing assistance (a direct check to Ackerman McQueen to pay for radio spots and local TV ads) and some waived fees. Not enough to really lure a new carrier as that is pocket change in the profitability of a flight.

[Celebrator]

When St. Louis finally got its first European nonstop in a decade last year, it was Lufthansa to Frankfurt and one reason was subsidies for the route on the part of several local companies with operations in Germany. I think they gave millions of dollars.

How has this route done, by the way?

[stlokc]

How has this route done, by the way?

I don't know, to be honest. I have had a small number of friends take the flight and they describe it as really great - to get to the heart of Europe without having to make a stop in New York or Chicago first, which is what we generally have to do in STL. But as for exact numbers, I'm not sure.

[BG918]

I don't know, to be honest. I have had a small number of friends take the flight and they describe it as really great - to get to the heart of Europe without having to make a stop in New York or Chicago first, which is what we generally have to do in STL. But as for exact numbers, I'm not sure.

Great option for connections across Europe and other parts of the world. I flew to South Africa last year through Frankfurt.

Not a great option from OKC/TUL though as you would have to recheck your bags if flying on Southwest. And STL is a further option for driving than DFW. It was nice when you could fly OKC-STL-LHR but those days are long past.

[scottk]

Speaking of international flights, does anyone old enough have more insight in to how long the TWA flight from OKC to Paris lasted, or was it just a one time flight at the ribbon cutting of the terminal in 1965?

[unfundedrick]

Speaking of international flights, does anyone old enough have more insight in to how long the TWA flight from OKC to Paris lasted, or was it just a one time flight at the ribbon cutting of the terminal in 1965?

Please note that the flight was "one plane" service, not "non stop" service. That just meant you could stay on the same plane all the way to Paris instead of having to change planes when it stopped before continuing on.

[Snowman]

The weather one does, I only assume it is to keep the size and load in the site at a reasonable level, as this thread and the weather thread probably have the largest number of posts over time.

I have doubts it would make that much difference, generally forum are built on top of a database. The number of posts for all years of aviation is pretty small for what any of the modern ones are designed to work with, and it is not that hard a query to only return the number of posts needed very efficiently. Also it is likely every post for the entire site is in the same data table anyway.