2023 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[brianinok]

Nothing necessarily wrong with OKC's service, except maybe all the holes left by United. But Tulsa has EXCELLENT service when you compare that OKC has 36% more passenger traffic than TUL (2022 2.89M vs. 3.94M). Are the planes just 30% empty flying in and out of Tulsa??

[Richard at Remax]

^I think you have to start looking at frequencies at that point vs total cities served

[brianinok]

^I think you have to start looking at frequencies at that point vs total cities served

Roughly, looks like 68 peak day departures from OKC and 59 from TUL. That's only a 15% difference. Granted I don't know equipment type.

[BG918]

Roughly, looks like 68 peak day departures from OKC and 59 from TUL. That's only a 15% difference. Granted I don't know equipment type.

I think OKC has slightly more mainline service than TUL. The biggest difference at this point is Alaska Airlines and Seattle; TUL does not have either but I know getting them is the top priority for the airport. Having Alaska opens up the possibility of future service to Portland, San Francisco, San Jose and San Diego, all big holes in the current route map from both cities. Alaska and AA are also partner airlines so there is that benefit too with so many existing AA flights.

Southwest overall has a much larger presence at OKC, including 2 additional cities (SAT, ATL) and soon-to-be 4 (TPA, BNA). I believe they have a 42% market share in OKC vs. 32% in TUL.

I would love to see Breeze actually stick with routes out of OKC and TUL but right now I would hesitate to fly them because the route could be discontinued before your flight. I know I was going to fly them to BNA but they ended the flight. TUL-MCO with "breeze-thru" (same plane) service to CHS is currently the only Breeze route coming back for summer.

[BG918]

So for the time being it looks like TPA is gone on both WN and Breeze? And is Breeze just done in OKC? TUL is lucky to have kept some service from them. And interesting that PIE works for TUL and it has never been tried here. Wonder if Florida markets are stronger out of TUL in general? And it seems like the Chicago market is better out of TUL,wonder why? They more service to MDW and ORD than OKC. Stronger industry ties between Chicago and Tulsa? Anyone venture a guess why a small market would have more service to Chicago than us? This is all fascinating to me.

Top cities by current weekday service levels at or above 2x/daily:
OKC
1. Houston: 10x United and Southwest (IAH & HOU)
2. Denver 8x United, Southwest and Frontier
3. Dallas/Ft Worth 7x American
4. Atlanta 6x Delta and Southwest
5. Phoenix 5x American and Southwest
6. Chicago 5x American and Southwest (ORD & MDW)
7. Los Angeles 2x American
8. Salt Lake City 2x Delta
9. St Louis 2x Southwest
10. Austin 2x Southwest and American
11. Charlotte 2x American
12. New York 2x American and Delta
13. Washington 2x American and Southwest

TUL
1. Dallas/Ft Worth 11x American and Southwest (DFW & DAL)
2. Chicago 7x American, United and Southwest (ORD & MDW)
3. Denver 7x Southwest and United
4. Houston 7x Southwest and United (IAH & HOU)
5. Atlanta 4x Delta
6. St Louis 2x Southwest
7. Austin 2x Southwest and American
8. Charlotte 2x American
9. Phoenix 2x Southwest and American
10. Salt Lake City 2x Delta

[Richard at Remax]

^looks like starting June 1-Oct 28 OKC-CLT bumps up to 3x daily. Mix between CRJ900, A319, and A-320

[shai2022]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed...-recovery/amp/

"In Oklahoma’s Airport Rivalry, Tulsa Leads OKC In Pandemic Recovery"

[shai2022]

Really need go get SFO back. And Boston.

[chssooner]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed...-recovery/amp/

"In Oklahoma’s Airport Rivalry, Tulsa Leads OKC In Pandemic Recovery"

Almost like what I've been lambasted on here for saying.

[Celebrator]

Top cities by current weekday service levels at or above 2x/daily:
OKC
1. Houston: 10x United and Southwest (IAH & HOU)
2. Denver 8x United, Southwest and Frontier
3. Dallas/Ft Worth 7x American
4. Atlanta 6x Delta and Southwest
5. Phoenix 5x American and Southwest
6. Chicago 5x American and Southwest (ORD & MDW)
7. Los Angeles 2x American
8. Salt Lake City 2x Delta
9. St Louis 2x Southwest
10. Austin 2x Southwest and American
11. Charlotte 2x American
12. New York 2x American and Delta
13. Washington 2x American and Southwest

TUL
1. Dallas/Ft Worth 11x American and Southwest (DFW & DAL)
2. Chicago 7x American, United and Southwest (ORD & MDW)
3. Denver 7x Southwest and United
4. Houston 7x Southwest and United (IAH & HOU)
5. Atlanta 4x Delta
6. St Louis 2x Southwest
7. Austin 2x Southwest and American
8. Charlotte 2x American
9. Phoenix 2x Southwest and American
10. Salt Lake City 2x Delta

For OKC, are you missing ORD service from UA or do they just have one per day on that route? That would seem very under-served.

[LakeEffect]

For OKC, are you missing ORD service from UA or do they just have one per day on that route? That would seem very under-served.

UA has a M-Sa 2x direct to ORD, using an Embraer 175 currently. Sunday is only 1x.

[Richard at Remax]

Almost like what I've been lambasted on here for saying.

I took away from that article that there is a high probability that Tulsa has been vastly under served. But once again, if you look at frequencies and aircraft type, vs destinations, that's where the two start to separate.

Some notes:
The article mentions that TUL has 9 nonstop from AA and OKC has 8. Both serve 9 but the OKC one to MIA is seasonal.
Second, the article says SWA has 11 out of OKC, it's actually 13. Says Tul has 8, when it's 9.
Third, it says that TUL has a direct to Mesa and Sarasota but they doesn't seem to be around anymore.
Finally, it says both have 24 nonstops. According to data below, OKC has 25, Tulsa has 22. Those include seasonal routes.

I'll still take OKC offerings over TUL right now.

[Richard at Remax]

https://www.flightconnections.com/fl...from-tulsa-tul

https://www.flightconnections.com/fl...ahoma-city-okc

If you click on each destination is shows the airlines on the left and the days served. Great tool for planning travel. You can select certain airlines to search for, and if you get membership it opens it up even more, esp searching alliances to cities served.

[warreng88]

My family is going on an Alaskan Cruise in July of this year. The cruise leaves from Vancouver, goes up the coast and then we fly back from Anchorage. For about two weeks, on a daily basis, we would search America, United and Delta to see what the best flights are and what they cost. We looked at doing AA from Dallas direct to Vancouver and then back to Dallas to drive back. The cost was around $4,800 for three of us. Then we stumbled upon Alaskan Airlines and found out we could save about $2,000 and have better flights by taking the OKC-SEA and then connecting from there. We never really considered Alaskan airlines because of where our points lie, but this was the best for our family and I wanted to share that info here.

[HOT ROD]

So comparing OKC's destinations now to pre-pandemic, we still need to get BACK the following:


OKC-BNA (Nashville): someone above confirmed it's coming back
OKC-DTW (Detroit)
OKC-PHL (Philadelphia)
OKC- SFO
OKC-IAD (Washington N Virginia)
OKC-BWI (Baltimore)
OKC-TPA: someone confirmed its return, but seasonal
OKC-MSY (New Orleans)
OKC-EWR (New York Newark): very surprised this is not back, come on United


Additional pairings that once existed:

OKC-DAL (Dallas)
OKC-CLE (Cleveland)
OKC-CVG (Cincinnati)
OKC-MCI (Kansas City)
OKC-OAK (Oakland)
OKC-SAN (San Diego)


for all of the wonderful additions we've gotten, SEA, LGA, MIA, MCO, DCA; I think the OKC Airport Trust should focus on restoring what we had and growing existing routes to mainline. For restored routes, start with United hubs then move on to those we lost long ago. I'd even recommend seed money for new and restored routes to get them started/restarted for a period, with more $$ than just ads in OKC but the catchment and route pair markets so they know the route exists.

[Celebrator]

So comparing OKC's destinations now to pre-pandemic, we still need to get BACK the following:


OKC-BNA (Nashville): someone above confirmed it's coming back
OKC-DTW (Detroit)
OKC-PHL (Philadelphia)
OKC- SFO
OKC-IAD (Washington N Virginia)
OKC-BWI (Baltimore)
OKC-TPA: someone confirmed its return, but seasonal
OKC-MSY (New Orleans)
OKC-EWR (New York Newark): very surprised this is not back, come on United


Additional pairings that once existed:

OKC-DAL (Dallas)
OKC-CLE (Cleveland)
OKC-CVG (Cincinnati)
OKC-MCI (Kansas City)
OKC-OAK (Oakland)
OKC-SAN (San Diego)


for all of the wonderful additions we've gotten, SEA, LGA, MIA, MCO, DCA; I think the OKC Airport Trust should focus on restoring what we had and growing existing routes to mainline. For restored routes, start with United hubs then move on to those we lost long ago. I'd even recommend seed money for new and restored routes to get them started/restarted for a period, with more $$ than just ads in OKC but the catchment and route pair markets so they know the route exists.

So we must have had OKC-CLE on CO, what, back in the 90s? I remember when CLE was a big midwest hub for CO, but it didn't seem to last more than about a decade. I think the big priorities for the OKC airport admin right now has to be getting back a Bay Area flight--that is a HUGE hole in the map. It has to be the largest domestic metro without any service from here. I mean at least the large metros have service to ONE of the airports, but we have NOTHING to the Bay Area. After that, BOS has to be another one to try and get. BOS has a huge catchment area and I am sure would do well from here. PDX comes in at a distant third, in my opinion.

[BG918]

So we must have had OKC-CLE on CO, what, back in the 90s? I remember when CLE was a big midwest hub for CO, but it didn't seem to last more than about a decade. I think the big priorities for the OKC airport admin right now has to be getting back a Bay Area flight--that is a HUGE hole in the map. It has to be the largest domestic metro without any service from here. I mean at least the large metros have service to ONE of the airports, but we have NOTHING to the Bay Area. After that, BOS has to be another one to try and get. BOS has a huge catchment area and I am sure would do well from here. PDX comes in at a distant third, in my opinion.

OKC-CLE was served by United in 2013-14. Below is a press release from 2/14/13. Likely boosted by CHK and others during the Marcellus Shale gas boom.

The United "good old days" when there was service to SFO, DEN, IAH, ORD, CLE, IAD and EWR..

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...0Inaugural.pdf

[damonsmuz]

Anyone know when OKC-DTW will return???

Also, what are the odds that Delta would try to start SEA-OKC?

[HangryHippo]

Until they surprisingly added LGA, it seemed like Delta couldn’t care less about OKC so I’d say 0%. But they could add SEA and BOS and clean up!

[unfundedrick]

So comparing OKC's destinations now to pre-pandemic, we still need to get BACK the following:


OKC-BNA (Nashville): someone above confirmed it's coming back
OKC-DTW (Detroit)
OKC-PHL (Philadelphia)
OKC- SFO
OKC-IAD (Washington N Virginia)
OKC-BWI (Baltimore)
OKC-TPA: someone confirmed its return, but seasonal
OKC-MSY (New Orleans)
OKC-EWR (New York Newark): very surprised this is not back, come on United


Additional pairings that once existed:

OKC-DAL (Dallas)
OKC-CLE (Cleveland)
OKC-CVG (Cincinnati)
OKC-MCI (Kansas City)
OKC-OAK (Oakland)
OKC-SAN (San Diego)


for all of the wonderful additions we've gotten, SEA, LGA, MIA, MCO, DCA; I think the OKC Airport Trust should focus on restoring what we had and growing existing routes to mainline. For restored routes, start with United hubs then move on to those we lost long ago. I'd even recommend seed money for new and restored routes to get them started/restarted for a period, with more $$ than just ads in OKC but the catchment and route pair markets so they know the route exists.

While it's not missed, OKC also had nonstop between OKC and TUL at one time on Delta. I know because I did that. Great Plains did nonstop to ABQ and COS.
http://www.departedflights.com/ZO031103.html

[Celebrator]

OKC-CLE was served by United in 2013-14. Below is a press release from 2/14/13. Likely boosted by CHK and others during the Marcellus Shale gas boom.

The United "good old days" when there was service to SFO, DEN, IAH, ORD, CLE, IAD and EWR..

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...0Inaugural.pdf

Good find on that press release! WAAAY more recent in history than I thought! How long did OKC-CLE last?

[catch22]

It lasted until late 2014 when they began to close the CLE hub.

[oktxatty]

Seats 1-4A on an EMB are superior to any seat on Southwest.

[BG918]

While it's not missed, OKC also had nonstop between OKC and TUL at one time on Delta. I know because I did that. Great Plains did nonstop to ABQ and COS.
http://www.departedflights.com/ZO031103.html

I flew OKC-TUL on Delta twice. It was about a 30 min flight, similar distance as DEN-COS.

I’d love to see an airline restart that route as a tag like Great Plains Airlines did with TUL-OKC-COS and TUL-OKC-ABQ - both cities that would be great to have back for access to hiking/skiing .

[PoliSciGuy]

My family is going on an Alaskan Cruise in July of this year. The cruise leaves from Vancouver, goes up the coast and then we fly back from Anchorage. For about two weeks, on a daily basis, we would search America, United and Delta to see what the best flights are and what they cost. We looked at doing AA from Dallas direct to Vancouver and then back to Dallas to drive back. The cost was around $4,800 for three of us. Then we stumbled upon Alaskan Airlines and found out we could save about $2,000 and have better flights by taking the OKC-SEA and then connecting from there. We never really considered Alaskan airlines because of where our points lie, but this was the best for our family and I wanted to share that info here.

I have family in the Pacific NW and Alaska is our go-to airline. The OKC-SEA flight is great and gets into SEA in time to hit all the connections Alaska has out of their hub there.