2023 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[catch22]

It makes sense to use this format as each year can be “archived”. The topics discussed are very dynamic: specific routes, aircraft types, schedules etc. and vary month to month and year to year. A topic on a building being constructed can only have one main construction phase where the bulk of all posts end up, and being a continuous process a single thread is easier to track for that.

[oktxatty]

How has this route done, by the way?

Just one nonstop a week on Fridays.

[oktxatty]

It's been a long, LONG time since anything positive has happened, in terms of routes, for OKC. I wonder if the new Airport director is not as proactive in looking for new routes. Other airports are adding routes left and right, yet OKC has been stagnant, maybe even net negative in terms of perception and routes. Even with new gates. It is kind of sad.

For all the momentum this city has, the airport is an albatross around its neck.

Both DL and AA added nonstops to NYC late last fall, so not a LONG time.

[s00nr1]

Well, against every fiber of my being, I've decided to make the move back to AA. I much prefer United, but the constant small RJ's to DEN/ORD/IAH and lack of
competitive flight options has forced me to switch with as much biz travel as I'm doing now. Sad day.

[chssooner]

Both DL and AA added nonstops to NYC late last fall, so not a LONG time.

https://flyokc.com/american-airlines...uardia-airport

Yeah late last fall...Delta piggy-backed off American announcing it pre-Covid lockdowns...

[Celebrator]

Just one nonstop a week on Fridays.

Actually, I looked this up and it appears to be running 3xweekly, Sun, Wed, and Fri on an A333. Hope it lasts. This is one of LH's smallest US nonstop markets, if not the smallest. The closest small-er nonstop city is AUS, but the rest of their US markets are big, big cities or smaller ones with hubs like CLT (which also has a big banking sector that matches up industry-wise with Frankfurt, a major European banking center). What a good get for STL.

[Richard at Remax]

Well, against every fiber of my being, I've decided to make the move back to AA. I much prefer United, but the constant small RJ's to DEN/ORD/IAH and lack of
competitive flight options has forced me to switch with as much biz travel as I'm doing now. Sad day.

I made the move a year ago to AA from Southwest. Haven't looked back. It's been great as the schedules are so much better as well as frequencies and destinations. Got to EXP within 8 months and about 80% of my flights out of OKC and to OKC have been upgraded.

[LocoAko]

I know this may not mean anything to anyone, but I have a brother and cousins that live in NYC proper. My brother lives in Brooklyn, my cousins live in Long Island. The AA direct flight from OKC to LaGuardia and vice versa has been a game changer for them. A lot of times, they would look for flights in DFW and then get a car and drive. Now, they book them at just the right time to where there is no savings to fly to DFW, they can fly straight in to OKC. My family flew into LGA the day before Thanksgiving and flew out the Monday after. Both flights were fully booked. My brother flew to OKC from LGA on 12/25 and flew back on 12/31, both flights fully booked. My cousin flew in from LGA on 12/27 and it was fully booked. She will be flying back on Wednesday morning and I will check to see if it is fully booked. I would love it if they increased to a few non-stops a day, but for now, I am ok with just the one.

Took the same OKC-LGA direct route to see family for Christmas on 12/21 and 12/29. Getting to/from LGA aside, it was very, very convenient. With no more direct United flights into EWR and Southwest ditching OKC-EWR entirely this is likely my new go-to for visiting home.

[amocore]

Good morning,

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

A bit short of 4 million but not too bad considering Covid was still an issue early in 2022.

2023 will see the return to normal level so over 4 million in OKC.

[gopokes88]

Good morning,

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

A bit short of 4 million but not too bad considering Covid was still an issue early in 2022.

2023 will see the return to normal level so over 4 million in OKC.

Southwest's meltdown probably hurt December a lot too I imagine. They had 73,000 passengers in October. Only 54,000 in December.

[chssooner]

Good morning,

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

A bit short of 4 million but not too bad considering Covid was still an issue early in 2022.

2023 will see the return to normal level so over 4 million in OKC.

Given the loss of numerous routes (to major hubs, nonetheless), OKC might struggle again to get to 4 million (and in perpetuity until they are replaced).

[PaddyShack]

Good morning,

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

A bit short of 4 million but not too bad considering Covid was still an issue early in 2022.

2023 will see the return to normal level so over 4 million in OKC.

Is the jump on Frontier anything to note about? 50% seems quite large.

[gopokes88]

Given the loss of numerous routes (to major hubs, nonetheless), OKC might struggle again to get to 4 million (and in perpetuity until they are replaced).

Lol. This is blatantly false. You just gonna ignore the 2nd half of this year that puts on pace for a record year in 2023?

[LakeEffect]

Is the jump on Frontier anything to note about? 50% seems quite large.

Maybe people hopped on last-minute open Frontier seats when their Southwest flights were cancelled at the end of the year?

[Richard at Remax]

Not surprised about Allegiant dropping a bit since they cut their LAX route at some point last year/during covid. Good to see AS up double digits.

[chssooner]

Lol. This is blatantly false. You just gonna ignore the 2nd half of this year that puts on pace for a record year in 2023?

Yeah, law of diminishing returns will kick in. Can only grow so much if you don't add routes. Maybe not drop this year, but there are quite a few people who used routes solely because they were new. And with a recession very likely coming, OKC might not increase their passenger rates. I hope I'm wrong, and will admit it if I am. But I see stagnant growth, if any, until something is done to add new routes or frequencies.

[amocore]

Is the jump on Frontier anything to note about? 50% seems quite large.

Good point and good for them. Maybe they added some rotations. I do not know how to check that though.

Frontier flies to Denver and Las Vegas from OKC at this time.

[Celebrator]

Good point and good for them. Maybe they added some rotations. I do not know how to check that though.

Frontier flies to Denver and Las Vegas from OKC at this time.

When did they drop MCO? Did WN's year-round service kill that?

[shai2022]

Delta added nonstops from MEM-BOS and Louisville-BOS a few weeks ago. Wish we could have been included being such a similar market to both. Maybe one day. Source: https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-...ga-bos-routes/

[chssooner]

Delta added nonstops from MEM-BOS and Louisville-BOS a few weeks ago. Wish we could have been included being such a similar market to both. Maybe one day. Source: https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-...ga-bos-routes/

Exactly...OKC will have stagnant growth, due to no new routes or frequencies.

[catch22]

Not true at all. With average load factors in the US around 85%, there is always room to grow in a market up to 10% before new routes are really necessary.

The airlines can sense this potential growth before they need to add a route. Growth can come in other forms via increased frequency to existing hubs or large gauge aircraft.

The sky is not falling. OKC has held on to some good adds over the past several years and has supported larger airplanes to several hubs. There’s your growth. The “sexy” route additions come every so often but the bulk of an airport’s growth in traffic is from trunk routes to existing hubs.

A year round, daily BOS-OKC route on a 76 seat jet would account for the capacity addition of 0.6% of the current capacity at OKC. Less than a percent — let’s cut back on the emotion.

[PoliSciGuy]

Exactly...OKC will have stagnant growth, due to no new routes or frequencies.

Alaska hasn't added any new routes or frequencies since their inaugural OKC->SEA route, yet has seen tremendous growth to the point that they've upgraded from an E175 to a 737-900. Just upgrading aircraft can have a significant impact on numbers

[BG918]

Alaska hasn't added any new routes or frequencies since their inaugural OKC->SEA route, yet has seen tremendous growth to the point that they've upgraded from an E175 to a 737-900. Just upgrading aircraft can have a significant impact on numbers

I wonder how much Boeing contributes to those numbers. I would think a daily nonstop to SFO would do well starting on a E175. United would be preferred because of international connections but Alaska has a lot of domestic/Hawaii flights from SFO.

Surprised with all the aerospace industries at TUL that Alaska hasn’t tried a daily nonstop to SEA starting on a E175. Wichita, which also has a large aerospace sector with Spirit and Cessna among others, has a daily Alaska nonstop to SEA on a E175.

[HOT ROD]

^ likely subsidized, as are many flights into Wichita.

[oktxatty]

I wonder how much Boeing contributes to those numbers. I would think a daily nonstop to SFO would do well starting on a E175. United would be preferred because of international connections but Alaska has a lot of domestic/Hawaii flights from SFO.

Surprised with all the aerospace industries at TUL that Alaska hasn’t tried a daily nonstop to SEA starting on a E175. Wichita, which also has a large aerospace sector with Spirit and Cessna among others, has a daily Alaska nonstop to SEA on a E175.

Boeing/aerospace contributes little to OKC-SEA. Post-pandemic travel to Alaska and the Pacific NW has expolded and leisure travelers make up the majority of bookings. As for SFO, UA had a N/S pre-Covid, it was full the few times I flew on it. But when China and much of the Orient closed or had significant retrictions, they eliminated that flight.