Tesla to build dealerships/service centers on Tribal lands.

[okccowan]

McGirt and Castro Huerta have nothing to do with TRUST LAND. They concerns activities of the state inside reservation boundaries (which is not the same as trust land). These are two totally different things. States do not have any civil jurisdiction over trust lands. There is literally nothing the State can do to stop Tesla from selling cars on trust land with a license from an Indian tribe, except go to Congress and get it to pass a new law on the subject.

Actually, I suppose the state could make it a CRIME to purchase a car from a manufacturer in the state and then prosecute non-Indians who buy a Telsa on trust lands. So that would be fun. (edited)

[Midtowner]

I am talking about Trust Lands, the link April in the Plaza posted concerns Indian country. Two totally separate and distinct concepts. Indian country is, more or less, anything inside an Indian reservation's boundaries. Trust land is specific parcels of land held in trust by the United States for the benefit of Indian tribes. Again, on trust lands there is nothing the State can do to stop this. This is not complicated.

It is not nearly as clear cut as that.

Especially, as I said before, if the State was to attach some criminal liability to the direct to consumer sales law. Then, the State would per SCOTUS precedent, now have concurrent jurisdictino with the tribes and feds to enforce state law. Lands held in trust are generally thought to be within the sole jurisdiction of the tribe (subject to federal law) for civil regulation, but the State can very easily up the ante by attaching criminal liablity, and with state law, what is strictly criminal and strictly civil regulation is not always clear cut.

[Midtowner]

lol at this take

Don't do that.

You want to get the thread locked because you wanted to make it about Ds and Rs? More of that.

[okccowan]

Midtowner, you are right about the criminal aspect. I edited my post above to address that. I was talking about civil law previously.

[BoulderSooner]

Don't do that.

You want to get the thread locked because you wanted to make it about Ds and Rs? More of that.

agreed my apologies edited my post

[Midtowner]

Midtowner, you are right about the criminal aspect. I edited my post above to address that. I was talking about civil law previously.

I would imagine the State wouldn't make it a crime to buy, it'd make it a crime to sell. They could then prosecute the entire dealership under a RICO theory. As I've said over and over, it's just an inopportune time for the tribes to be picking fights they ultimately can't win. Especially when they have completely alienated the governor's office. Their only hope is to make inroads with their local rural legislators, but those guys are going to be hard pressed to buck a governor who just won as big as Stitt just did.

Last year we very nearly saw the OKC Tesla showroom/service center shut down as the dealerships are still a powerful voice in our legislature.

I doubt Musk will care what harm will come to tribal interests if this plan fails. The Tribes are going to have to be the adults in the room and openly courting this sort of thing without negotiating compacts with the State would be a big mistake.

And if the State isn't willing to negotiate? Well then, for a sovereign nation, 4 years isn't very long to wait.

[okccowan]

I just hate all of this. It is insane to me that dealers have this much control over our legislature. I'd rather just order a car online. To me, dealerships provide no value at all.

[chssooner]

I just hate all of this. It is insane to me that dealers have this much control over our legislature. I'd rather just order a car online. To me, dealerships provide no value at all.

It is that way in most states. Oklahoma is not an exception, in this case.

[Pete]

According to this, Oklahoma is only one of 10 states that completely bans direct-to-consumer car sales:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_...rship_disputes

The Federal Trade Commission recommends allowing direct manufacturer sales, which a 2000 report by a Goldman Sachs analyst projected would save consumers an average of $2,225 on a $26,000 car

[jerrywall]

To me, dealerships provide no value at all.

I've never understood this line of thinking. I don't want to purchase a vehicle if I don't have a local dealership that I can work with to get parts and service. While I certainly have my gripes about car dealerships and salesmen, I also see the value of being able to take my wife's mini to an actual BMW/mini dealership rather than some random import shop, or my Harley to a licensed Harley dealer. The franchise model we operate under ensures that there is a local presence to support the products, and ostensibly, also to engender competition within a brand at a benefit to consumers (although supply issues have rendered this moot). Now I won't argue this system has its flaws, and it is certainly outdated and probably should be replaced - but I'll argue against dealerships providing no value.

[Pete]

^

All that would still be the case. Traditional dealerships would still service cars and in the case of Tesla (and likely future EV brands) they set up service centers.

The only thing that would change would be taking out the middleman when it comes to sales.

[jerrywall]

^

All that would still be the case. Traditional dealerships would still service cars and in the case of Tesla (and likely future EV brands) they set up service centers.

The only thing that would change would be taking out the middleman when it comes to sales.

And I see that, but there is still value (to me) in having that person be someone based locally. Like I said, the system is outdated and probably should be replaced - I'm not arguing that and I'm fine with allowing direct sales - but I think the franchise/dealer model does have benefits and I don't think the value of dealerships should be dismissed out of hand.

Also, while all of this COULD still be the case, it's not for sure if a company decides the market doesn't justify a dealership. The franchise model could be argued to be more stable and provide better coverage.

[April in the Plaza]

^

All that would still be the case. Traditional dealerships would still service cars and in the case of Tesla (and likely future EV brands) they set up service centers.

The only thing that would change would be taking out the middleman when it comes to sales.

Interesting and timely article. Have no idea how GM gets genuine Tesla parts for repairs, but it's definitely a fortunate situation for the Tesla owners. However, you have to wonder if the GM work would void any Tesla warranties?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wh...as-11669396882

[Midtowner]

Also, while all of this COULD still be the case, it's not for sure if a company decides the market doesn't justify a dealership. The franchise model could be argued to be more stable and provide better coverage.

Then here's a crazy idea--let them compete with each other.

[jerrywall]

Then here's a crazy idea--let them compete with each other.

I'd prefer that but in my experience companies that go the direct sales route don't tend to also allow franchise sales.

[jerrywall]

Interesting and timely article. Have no idea how GM gets genuine Tesla parts for repairs, but it's definitely a fortunate situation for the Tesla owners. However, you have to wonder if the GM work would void any Tesla warranties?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wh...as-11669396882

We need better right to repair legislation in the US. In the non-car world, Samsung drives me nuts because they require their phones to ONLY be serviced through their service centers, and there's not one locally so it's about shipping it off or having repairs done locally and voiding my warranty.

[Pete]

I'd prefer that but in my experience companies that go the direct sales route don't tend to also allow franchise sales.

Lots of traditional car manufacturers are talking about a direct sales model for their EV products.

And as I've mentioned before, there are a ton of new EV startups that will completely forgo the antiquated dealership model. And that's exactly why legacy car companies will need to change their sales model in order to stay competitive.


Since EV's have far fewer moving parts, your next car might be from Sony/Honda or Apple or Google or a Chinese company that doesn't yet exist. There is a big paradigm shift away from heavy manufacturing to software and technology. Will be fascinating to watch.

[Jeremy Martin]

Interesting and timely article. Have no idea how GM gets genuine Tesla parts for repairs, but it's definitely a fortunate situation for the Tesla owners. However, you have to wonder if the GM work would void any Tesla warranties?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wh...as-11669396882

The GM dealers order them from Tesla just like any other repair shop. Having a person who is not trained by Teslsa work on your car does not void your warranty. That is a violation of federal law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus...s_Warranty_Act
I know that even before Covid Tesla was horrible at keeping parts in stock and readily available for repairs so I can't imagine how bad it is now.

[brianinok]

If they're doing this in NM I don't know why OK wouldn't be next. Except maybe Tesla has been holding out hope that OK would change its laws so they can put a sales center wherever they want in OKC and Tulsa. I just spent several days in Albuquerque and saw one Tesla. It's not a scientific study obviously, but the rate of Teslas being sold OK seems to be much greater in OK than in NM. There are more on my street than I saw in NM in 5 days.

[jn1780]

If they're doing this in NM I don't know why OK wouldn't be next. Except maybe Tesla has been holding out hope that OK would change its laws so they can put a sales center wherever they want in OKC and Tulsa. I just spent several days in Albuquerque and saw one Tesla. It's not a scientific study obviously, but the rate of Teslas being sold OK seems to be much greater in OK than in NM. There are more on my street than I saw in NM in 5 days.

Midtowner lays out the differences between Oklahoma and New Mexico in post #18. The Tribes could fight it, but would they really want to? Lets say best cast scenario the tribes are allowed to open Telsa facilities. The state could just turn around and let Telsa do direct sales. Good chance Tesla closes though facilities and place them in more optimal locations in the city.