Douglas & I-40 Interchange

[therhett17]

[therhett17]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEkfAVOGkL4

[bombermwc]

Well that bridge is definitely overdue to be dozed and replaced. It's going to be a mess, but glad they are doing it.

Now Mayor Holt, stop being dumb and keep Douglas open for all the through traffic on Douglas that uses this and FAR exceeds the Tinker traffic.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^^ or just lower the road and place a cap on it. It wouldn’t be that expensive in the grand scheme of things. Not even sure if it would require a ventilation system being classified as a tunnel or not. If this expansion will help Tinker grow then I’m all for it. We can get the best of both worlds. It really isn’t that hard to do.

Even if it would be considered a tunnel and needed a ventilation system which would drive up costs it still wouldn’t be that expensive compared to a bored tunnel. This would simply require a trench dug, a cap placed over it, and a ventilation system with a small stack somewhere nearby. It wouldn’t be much effort at all.

[BoulderSooner]

Now Mayor Holt, stop being dumb and keep Douglas open for all the through traffic on Douglas that uses this and FAR exceeds the Tinker traffic.

yeah he doesn't really have the sway or want to stop it ..

[TheTravellers]

^^^^ or just lower the road and place a cap on it. It wouldn’t be that expensive in the grand scheme of things. Not even sure if it would require a ventilation system being classified as a tunnel or not. If this expansion will help Tinker grow then I’m all for it. We can get the best of both worlds. It really isn’t that hard to do.

Even if it would be considered a tunnel and needed a ventilation system which would drive up costs it still wouldn’t be that expensive compared to a bored tunnel. This would simply require a trench dug, a cap placed over it, and a ventilation system with a small stack somewhere nearby. It wouldn’t be much effort at all.

You're talking about organizations that appear to be stuck decades behind current best practices, so yeah, it would be much effort for *them* to do it. Any other state or big city, maybe not, but it won't happen here.

[BoulderSooner]

You're talking about organizations that appear to be stuck decades behind current best practices, so yeah, it would be much effort for *them* to do it. Any other state or big city, maybe not, but it won't happen here.

it is in no way a "best practice" to put a public road tunnel under a military installation ..

[Bellaboo]

You're talking about organizations that appear to be stuck decades behind current best practices, so yeah, it would be much effort for *them* to do it. Any other state or big city, maybe not, but it won't happen here.

Not too smart to put a road under a military base.

[chssooner]

You're talking about organizations that appear to be stuck decades behind current best practices, so yeah, it would be much effort for *them* to do it. Any other state or big city, maybe not, but it won't happen here.

How many roads underneath military bases do you think there are? Not sure why you use this to bash Oklahoma.

[Plutonic Panda]

I believe this question was asked before and people already responded with several examples of roads that passed under military bases in another thread.

Can someone please layout an example of something that could go wrong? It’s so easy to post about why it wouldn’t work but how about a solution? What are you people expecting to happen? This road would be passing under a runway or taxi lane of some sort, no? Assuming there’s a plane or some precious cargo coupled with cameras and live monitoring the tunnels could simply be shut down while the transport is moved across them. Easy. So what’s the issue?

[chssooner]

I believe this question was asked before and people already responded with several examples of roads that passed under military bases in another thread.

Can someone please layout an example of something that could go wrong? It’s so easy to post about why it wouldn’t work but how about a solution? What are you people expecting to happen? This road would be passing under a runway or taxi lane of some sort, no? Assuming there’s a plane or some precious cargo coupled with cameras and live monitoring the tunnels could simply be shut down while the transport is moved across them. Easy. So what’s the issue?

Cost-benefit analysis would show this would not be worth the money it would cost, in my opinion.

[Plutonic Panda]

Cost-benefit analysis would show this would not be worth the money it would cost, in my opinion.

Was one even done?

[chssooner]

Was one even done?

I would guess with every project done, there is one performed.t might not be public, but cost-benefit analyses are very common. Similar to a pro-con list.

[TheTravellers]

How many roads underneath military bases do you think there are? Not sure why you use this to bash Oklahoma.

I'm bashing ODOT and the city engineering depts in general, not specifically for this project.

[bombermwc]

For Douglas, they are just pandering to Tinker, which has a ton of wasted and unused space. This isn't a need, its just expansion in a land grab. There is no "base" east of Douglas. They would be creating it. Heck, they never finished projects they had planned over there and tore down a bunch of what they did have. There is already a huge amount of land and connecting the two is LESS beneficial than just putting a real airplane bridge in. It's thinly veiled and the city is just bowing to it because they dont want to appear to not be 100000% behind whatever Tinker wants.

If you haven't seen it, there are flightline plans that show what Tinker would prefer to take. It would basically close Del City north of I-40, and Midwest City north of 29th far past Glenwood. Really up to Reno and beyond. 240 would go away. It's ridiculous that they want their "accident" zone at whatever cost to the surrounding community. But if we disagree at all, then we're branded anti-Tinker and in danger of supporting its closure. Personally, I feel like there's a middle ground in there.

[BoulderSooner]

For Douglas, they are just pandering to Tinker, which has a ton of wasted and unused space. This isn't a need, its just expansion in a land grab. There is no "base" east of Douglas. They would be creating it. Heck, they never finished projects they had planned over there and tore down a bunch of what they did have. There is already a huge amount of land and connecting the two is LESS beneficial than just putting a real airplane bridge in. It's thinly veiled and the city is just bowing to it because they dont want to appear to not be 100000% behind whatever Tinker wants.

If you haven't seen it, there are flightline plans that show what Tinker would prefer to take. It would basically close Del City north of I-40, and Midwest City north of 29th far past Glenwood. Really up to Reno and beyond. 240 would go away. It's ridiculous that they want their "accident" zone at whatever cost to the surrounding community. But if we disagree at all, then we're branded anti-Tinker and in danger of supporting its closure. Personally, I feel like there's a middle ground in there.

there is "base" east of douglas .... and there is not "ton of wasted and unused space" ...

accident zones are not made by the base ...

and of course the city and county and state want to support what TAFB (the states largest single site employer) wants

Tinker will continue to grow and growing east across Douglas makes the most sense ..

[bombermwc]

OK since we want to talk through the points......

Yes there are some areas east of Douglas like Consolidated Fuels, the Boeing MROTC, and the Communications Wing. But they are all dotted around and are not congiuous. There is no "base" east of Douglas. What they are wanting to do is make a land grab and turn all the grass (and Douglas) into all part of the base land and then fence it in. And in fact, the MROTC has MORE land than has been used because it was designed to house 17 hangers. We have only built 3 so far. The plans fit within the space already designated for the project and wouldn't require the use of Douglas or 59th. Again, they already have a LOT of room.

Accident Zones are made by the Air Force. If you think Tinker officials are fighting against that, then dream on. There have been many many many publications about his over the years.

As for wasted space, there is absolutely wasted space ALL OVER Tinker. Each organization builds their small single floor or MAYBE 2 floor buildings for their specific purposes. 3001 is the best example of how it could be done better, but they've abandoned that idea ever since it was constructed. Both the North and East main complexes could do a LOT of consolidation in to more contiguous structures that more efficiently can do the jobs that all the individual structures are doing. Not much to do on the flightline iteself, but ESPECIALLY down towards the GM plant, there is room. LOTs of room. They, in fact, had enough room to add that entire squadron hanger space and not even really have to think about it....and still have room to expand it.

And you proved my point. Any time anyone questions if Tinker should get something, they're turned in to the bad guy. We're all expected to just let them have whatever they want without pushback. Look, i grew up in MWC. I know what Tinker means. My wife worked there for a while, plenty of friends have worked there, plenty of other family members have worked there. Just because we're all linked to it doesn't mean that we can't have conversations to control the reach. They are now going to impact all of us and the city doesn't seem willing to look in to what's going to be needed to make up for it (exits for Post on 40/240, turning Post in to 4 lanes (and what to the people that live there think about that). And again, i'll say that the through traffic EXCEEDS the Tinker traffic on Douglas. It can't be ignored.

We could easily have an East extension of the base with bridges for plane and car traffic and not close Douglas. That's certainly been done elsewhere.

[Plutonic Panda]

Press release from ODOT:

Monday, November 28, 2022
Numerous dignitaries and community members gathered at I-40 and Douglas Blvd. in Midwest City Tuesday morning to break ground on a more than $170 million interchange reconstruction project. The event also honored U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, R-Oklahoma, for his years of service to the state and specifically for his role in improving state transportation. The Oklahoma Legislature named the interchange in the senator's honor.

The interchange will be reconstructed as a Single-Point Urban Interchange, also known as a SPUI, which improves traffic flow and safety while minimizing impacts to surrounding properties. This will be the fourth SPUI on the state highway system. Other locations of with a SPUI design include I-40 and Morgan Rd., I-35 and Main St. in Norman, and I-35 and Lindsey St. in Norman.

Additionally, just more than 6 miles of I-40 will be widened to six lanes between Industrial Blvd. and the I-240 interchange. Work also will address nine bridges including raising the Westminster Rd. bridge over I-40 to accommodate modern truck traffic, reconstruction of the Douglas Blvd. bridge and removal of the Engle Rd. bridge.

"Improving bridges on this project is just another example of Oklahoma’s larger bridge story in how the state went from 49th in the nation a short 15 years ago to now No. 5 nationally for good bridge conditions. All Oklahomans should be proud of that and our senior senator has been a big part of why we've been able to achieve that ranking. That means that fewer than 1 percent of Oklahoma’s highway system bridges are structurally deficient and there are no structurally deficient bridges remaining in this area," said Secretary of Transportation Tim Gatz.

Other speakers at the event also offered their gratitude for Sen. Inhofe and support for the project.
"It is impossible to truly express the importance of Sen. Inhofe to the state of Oklahoma. Since being elected in 2005, he has been a titan, especially when it comes to transportation, infrastructure and his support for our military," said U.S. Rep. Stephanie Bice, R-Edmond. ".. For many years he served as chairman and ranking member of the Environment and Public Works committee and worked to craft major pieces of transportation and infrastructure legislation that greatly benefited Oklahoma, including MAP 21 and the FAST Act.

"This interchange is right near the gates to Tinker Air Force Base, making this both a key military and economic investment. In fact, I think it's perfectly fitting that the largest dollar amount contract in Oklahoma Transportation history be named after him."

Midwest City Mayor Matt Dukes also congratulated Sen. Inhofe.

"Senator, words escape me to appreciate the number of years you have served this country, state and, of course, our community. Thanks for being here, this is a great project for our community. It's going to facilitate traffic flow, but better yet, it demonstrates the partnership with the City of Midwest City, the Oklahoma Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration," Dukes said.

Sen. Inhofe thanked the speakers and crowd for attending. "This is a huge project. It means a lot to me and I thank you for it," Inhofe said.

The project was awarded in October to Allen Contracting Inc. and Shell Construction Co. Inc. Included in the funding is a $51 million federal INFRA grant, which was awarded in June 2021.

- https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/ne...pcoming-c.html

[HangryHippo]

Why did they move to Douglas before Sunnylane and the stretch just east of where they’re still working at Air Depot?

[Plutonic Panda]

Why did they move to Douglas before Sunnylane and the stretch just east of where they’re still working at Air Depot?

Likely because that stretch will be included with an expansion of the interstate between Tinker and SE 29th St. There is zero room to expand the freeway there. It’ll either require a complete realignment of 29th st or placing the freeway below grade with a cantilever setup similar to how the service roads hang over US-75(Central Expressway) in Dallas.

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about: https://maps.app.goo.gl/p6LMh3LEDuMEpQVW6?g_st=ic

It would likely be a smaller scale though. It’ll still be very expensive and I doubt ODOT gets around to that anytime soon. That’s going to be a bottleneck we’re stuck with for a decade or so.

[BoulderSooner]

Why did they move to Douglas before Sunnylane and the stretch just east of where they’re still working at Air Depot?

don't know why the delay but I40 over 29th bridges are scheduled for 2028


I-40: EB & WB OVER SE 29TH IN MWC
Proj. Work Desc. 11:BRIDGE & APPROACHES
Programmed FY 2028
Programmed Amount 6,000,000

and sunnylane bridges is 2027

I-40: EB & WB BRIDGES OVER SUNNYLANE 1.9 MIS. E. OF I-35
Proj. Work Desc. 11:BRIDGE & APPROACHES
Programmed FY 2027
Programmed Amount 10,000,000

[bombermwc]

Likely because that stretch will be included with an expansion of the interstate between Tinker and SE 29th St. There is zero room to expand the freeway there. It’ll either require a complete realignment of 29th st or placing the freeway below grade with a cantilever setup similar to how the service roads hang over US-75(Central Expressway) in Dallas.

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about: https://maps.app.goo.gl/p6LMh3LEDuMEpQVW6?g_st=ic

It would likely be a smaller scale though. It’ll still be very expensive and I doubt ODOT gets around to that anytime soon. That’s going to be a bottleneck we’re stuck with for a decade or so.

I'm not sure that this is actually true for this phase. There is enough room to add another lane on each side, but it would mean that there would just be no shoulder left. The shoulder today is pretty darn big. And that only really effects the portion right at Midwest Blvd. And really only about an 1/8 mile stretch of it. So even if 29th had to realign, it would be fairly minor. David Stanley/UHaul/Mathis Brothers probably stand to lose the most there. Their front parking lots are pretty thin already. It can be done, just means they lose the front row of spaces and those cars have to go to the back. It's not a huge loss for any of them. Cheddar's still has some grass frontage they would be able to give up to start the angle a bit, but wouldn't cause them to have to adjust their structure. Lord knows they wont ask Tinker to give up 1 ft of space.

But you really have to zoom in a lot on a google map (or drive it) to see what I mean. The Arnold St. rail bridge can come out since the tracks on either side dont' connect to anything anymore. And the bridge for Arnold may come out too. There hasn't been a real access gate there in 20 years. TInker may be hapy to just be rid of it. But even if they leave it, they have as much room as they had under the 240 bridge when they made that 3 lanes. Just removes the shoulder.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ yeah but hopefully ODOT doesn’t do that. Shoulders are imperative to maintain safety standards and I don’t think any federal money would be allowed for this project even if it was approved with substandard designs. Could be a temporary option though.

[catch22]

I do believe that you can eliminate or reduce shoulder widths for stretches no longer than a defined amount, and still be in compliance with interstate design standards. I am not sure of the exact length but I believe around 800-1000ft.

[BoulderSooner]

I do believe that you can eliminate or reduce shoulder widths for stretches no longer than a defined amount, and still be in compliance with interstate design standards. I am not sure of the exact length but I believe around 800-1000ft.

the area in question is only a little over 2,000 feet .. it should become 6 lane ..

if it was not it would be the only 4 lane stretch I25 to grand casino in the next county