Canoo

[Pete]

There has been conjecture that the few complete vehicles they have produced were not even assembled in OKC.

With fledgling public companies, you often never know the full truth because they lean very heavily on the fake-it-until-you-make-it strategy. The need to give the appearance they can start cranking out cars so they can get contracts and without the contracts they can't get the capital to produce cars... It's all very circular.

[jn1780]

There has been conjecture that the few complete vehicles they have produced were not even assembled in OKC.

With fledgling public companies, you often never know the full truth because they lean very heavily on the fake-it-until-you-make-it strategy. The need to give the appearance they can start cranking out cars so they can get contracts and without the contracts they can't get the capital to produce cars... It's all very circular.

Elon musk has said that efficient mass production is the hardest thing. Its easier to throw out a 100 or 200 prototype vehicles.

[Pete]

Elon musk has said that efficient mass production is the hardest thing. Its easier to throw out a 100 or 200 prototype vehicles.

And even Tesla continues to have issues with quality control.

BTW, Hyundai just this week launched a brand new modular line of EV work vehicles, where a standard chassis and cab can accommodate all types of rear components, and the Koreans are absolutely killing it in the EV world.

There are some huge, sophisticated companies already cranking out hundreds of thousands of vehicles; I've said it before but I just don't see the market for Canoo. What purchasing agent is going to take a flyer on an EV startup when a bunch have already failed or are in the process (like Fisker) instead of going with Mercedes, Ford or Hyundai/Kia??

[jn1780]

And even Tesla continues to have issues with quality control.

BTW, Hyundai just this week launched a brand new modular line of EV work vehicles, where a standard chassis and cab can accommodate all types of rear components, and the Koreans are absolutely killing it in the EV world.

There are some huge, sophisticated companies already cranking out hundreds of thousands of vehicles; I've said it before but I just don't see the market for Canoo. What purchasing agent is going to take a flyer on an EV startup when a bunch have already failed or are in the process (like Fisker) instead of going with Mercedes, Ford or Hyundai/Kia??

Yeah, and those Canoo vans don't seem very 'sexy' compared to what everyone else is producing. I guess they were trying to go after a work van type of niche.

[Midtowner]

It's too bad because I was actually pretty pumped to buy one of their personal vehicles whether it was the pickup truck, which I thought was extremely utilitarian or the 7-seater, which made me nostalgic for my aunt's old 1980 something station wagon where the thing sat 6 kids in the back facing one another. Good times in that car. I also thought the modular design and especially the battery would be about the best way you could bet on an affordable battery replacement in the future.

I think the design and concept were great. The execution has been lackluster.

And here Oklahoma sits again, hat in hand, willing to sell its soul to an employer to just pleas locate here when we can't just do the obvious stupid thing, i.e., invest in an educated workforce.

[shavethewhales]

I think the window has closed. If they were actually producing at this point, I think they could still have a narrow shot, but if the plant isn't actually running at all like people are saying then it's over. I'm sure they'll continue to waste money and put out some flashy press releases, and maybe even break ground on a new facility in Pryor, but it's hopeless if they aren't up and running at this point. Like Pete said, the legacy manufacturers will eat them alive when they actually start producing for the American market. Just need some economical choices besides the super expensive giant trucks (eg Ford Lightning). Give me a basic, cheap, EV commuter car please. One that isn't full of spyware, won't explode in a collision, and can be controlled without a touch screen please.

[EBAH]

It's too bad because I was actually pretty pumped to buy one of their personal vehicles whether it was the pickup truck, which I thought was extremely utilitarian or the 7-seater, which made me nostalgic for my aunt's old 1980 something station wagon where the thing sat 6 kids in the back facing one another. Good times in that car. I also thought the modular design and especially the battery would be about the best way you could bet on an affordable battery replacement in the future.

I think the design and concept were great. The execution has been lackluster.

And here Oklahoma sits again, hat in hand, willing to sell its soul to an employer to just pleas locate here when we can't just do the obvious stupid thing, i.e., invest in an educated workforce.

The obvious and super frustrating part is yes, 1000% turns out high quality education pays off and our nextdoor neighbor that we are so jealous of has understood that for a VERY long time and for some reason it has never rubbed off. Also, we absolutely lost a couple of larger deals (and this is not speculation it is fact) because of a political climate and legislation that is just flat out bad for business. I don't want to get in a right vs left kind of thing and I know it's not allowed here, but fact is, the larger the business, the more they will 100% require a legal climate that gives them the widest range of relocation options, available workers and talent they can get and the last 5-10 years have produced some laws on the books that large international companies just absolutely prohibit for relocation, and I know for a fact a couple of very large companies have just literally said that in clear terms.

I hire a lot of very high level CS engineers and EE's and it amazes me how flippant our government is to these segments and how little they understand that the cost of building a factory pales in comparison to the hassle and cost of securing the best of the best engineers. Oklahoma has got to get passed this "but we have cheap land" argument because in these spaces, if that's all you got, you got nothing.

[Midtowner]

The obvious and super frustrating part is yes, 1000% turns out high quality education pays off and our nextdoor neighbor that we are so jealous of has understood that for a VERY long time and for some reason it has never rubbed off. Also, we absolutely lost a couple of larger deals (and this is not speculation it is fact) because of a political climate and legislation that is just flat out bad for business. I don't want to get in a right vs left kind of thing and I know it's not allowed here, but fact is, the larger the business, the more they will 100% require a legal climate that gives them the widest range of relocation options, available workers and talent they can get and the last 5-10 years have produced some laws on the books that large international companies just absolutely prohibit for relocation, and I know for a fact a couple of very large companies have just literally said that in clear terms.

I think that's valid. 100%.

I think our long term prospects at keeping Paycom might be looking a little iffy at this point. Its CEO has picked a fight with the very influential GOP lobbying group, OCPAC, and suddenly, Chad Richison is now no longer welcome at his alma mater, even after making a pretty substantial donation to improve the athletic facilities. Our state is eating its own. Our neighbor to the South has mastered the art of cosplaying as yeehaw buffoons to get reelected, but they also know that higher education is necessary to support industry and growth. Here in Oklahoma, we have poltiicians talking about cutting 100% of the higher ed budget. I can tell you Texas would never do something so dumb--or even talk about it out in the open. Even talk like that is going to scare away investment.

And so now, we're left with companies like Canoo and it appears the State has just been a party to some overall pump and dump type scheme. Fortunately, we structured the deal around some solid metrics and the state isn't going to be left that much in the lurch. Maybe just a little embarrassed.

But no one is going to want to locate a major plant here until Oklahoma's public education sector can get it together--and I don't mean by privatizing.


I hire a lot of very high level CS engineers and EE's and it amazes me how flippant our government is to these segments and how little they understand that the cost of building a factory pales in comparison to the hassle and cost of securing the best of the best engineers. Oklahoma has got to get passed this "but we have cheap land" argument because in these spaces, if that's all you got, you got nothing.[/QUOTE]

[jedicurt]

I think that's valid. 100%.

I think our long term prospects at keeping Paycom might be looking a little iffy at this point. Its CEO has picked a fight with the very influential GOP lobbying group, OCPAC, and suddenly, Chad Richison is now no longer welcome at his alma mater, even after making a pretty substantial donation to improve the athletic facilities. Our state is eating its own. Our neighbor to the South has mastered the art of cosplaying as yeehaw buffoons to get reelected, but they also know that higher education is necessary to support industry and growth. Here in Oklahoma, we have poltiicians talking about cutting 100% of the higher ed budget. I can tell you Texas would never do something so dumb--or even talk about it out in the open. Even talk like that is going to scare away investment.

And so now, we're left with companies like Canoo and it appears the State has just been a party to some overall pump and dump type scheme. Fortunately, we structured the deal around some solid metrics and the state isn't going to be left that much in the lurch. Maybe just a little embarrassed.

But no one is going to want to locate a major plant here until Oklahoma's public education sector can get it together--and I don't mean by privatizing.


I hire a lot of very high level CS engineers and EE's and it amazes me how flippant our government is to these segments and how little they understand that the cost of building a factory pales in comparison to the hassle and cost of securing the best of the best engineers. Oklahoma has got to get passed this "but we have cheap land" argument because in these spaces, if that's all you got, you got nothing.

i think there isn't much of a concern of paycom leaving. it's more i think an issue of if Chad continues to run the company he started. I heard it on pretty good authority that the naming of a Co-CEO of Chris Thomas back in Feburary, was not exactly Chad's idea... I think some of his outside the work comments and efforts is what is causing him to come back to the company more aggressively, and rightfully the board isn't happy about any of it.

[Jersey Boss]

With the OSDE refusing to share data with school ranking services, the race to be the call center/warehose leader among the 50 states will be realized.

[ComeOnBenjals!]

Nvm

[ComeOnBenjals!]

With the OSDE refusing to share data with school ranking services, the race to be the call center/warehose leader among the 50 states will be realized.

I've lived in other states that value public education and higher ed and the results are tangible. Higher wages, better health outcomes, etc. Oklahoma seems content to land a Data Center or Call Center every year or so and really hype it up as a huge success. I think OKC/Tulsa are starting to have enough critical mass to help change this.. but state leadership doesn't seem invested at all.

[jedicurt]

I've lived in other states that value public education and higher ed and the results are tangible. Higher wages, better health outcomes, etc. Oklahoma seems content to land a Data Center or Call Center every year or so and really hype it up as a huge success. I think OKC/Tulsa are starting to have enough critical mass to help change this.. but state leadership doesn't seem invested at all.

as someone who grew up in rural Oklahoma, and didn't move to OKC until after college, i can tell you that you basically have to drag the rest of the state up, before they drag you down, because rural Oklahoma won't ever want change. And then they wonder why they keep losing population every year.