New Downtown Arena

[BoulderSooner]

Looks like you read the same sources I do. Most of whom, IMO, are west coast NBA reporters, agents and consultants.

I know Las Vegas is the sexy pick, but I can't make a city of about 2 million people go from zero "Big 4" leagues to 3 or 4 in 10 years. The local push to get the Athletics is pretty far along. And it has to give the NBA league office reason to be very cautious is determining how deep the local ownership, ticket and luxury box market is for the valley. I think Lebron can be a solid asset to any ownership group.

I haven't read about the expansion teams generating 8 billion dollars. Don't see how they can provide that to the league upfront, and I can't figure out how they bring a large enough amount to the league in shared revenue that makes it work.

bill simmons who has been correct in about every nba team sale / purchase price and is a boston guy that now lives in LA is as plugged in as anyone on NBA expansion

thinks it will be over 3 for vegas and 3.5+ for seattle 6.5-8 billion total in expansion fees ..

and owners like cuban don't want to expand ... but lots of owners will be very happy to take the 215-265 million dollar check ..

the new tv deal is going to be massive .. and the new teams may or may not get a full share right away

[Dob Hooligan]

bill simmons who has been correct in about every nba team sale / purchase price and is a boston guy that now lives in LA is as plugged in as anyone on NBA expansion

thinks it will be over 3 for vegas and 3.5+ for seattle 6.5-8 billion total in expansion fees ..

and owners like cuban don't want to expand ... but lots of owners will be very happy to take the 215-265 million dollar check ..

the new tv deal is going to be massive .. and the new teams may or may not get a full share right away

Bill Simmons knows his stuff. He is NBA first and foremost. But, I think everyone is speculating at this point.

[Urbanized]

Are there any other arenas they visited?

You can be sure that the team itself has visited and taken notes on not just every relevant NBA arena, but other recently-built sports stadiums. As for a joint visit with city officials, I'm only aware of that publicly-documented trip. I do know several City folks who have been to other NBA arenas for a variety of reasons, and again, I'm certain they were taking notes. But to reiterate, I'm not in the inner sanctum on this topic, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Just piecing together general things that have been said in various unrelated meetings with people who ARE involved, both directly and tangentially, combined with what's been covered in the media.

I do think it is worth noting that Milwaukee's arena (2018) cost a reported $1.2 billion. Other fairly recent buildings include Sacramento's (2016), which cost a reported $558 million, the Pistons (2017) at $863 million, Golden Sate (2019) at $1.8 billion, and Brooklyn (2012) at $1.18 billion. Clearly we have a few advantages, including existing land (though it won't be cheap to clear) and a less expensive labor market than most. But our building will also be brought online more than a decade after any of these; in Brooklyn's case nearly TWO decades. And again, there will almost certainly be significant mixed-use bells and whistles OUTSIDE of the building, which is the latest trend in the sports business. Expecting this project to come in at $600 or $700 million is almost certainly a flight of fancy.

[BoulderSooner]

I do think it is worth noting that Milwaukee's arena (2018) cost a reported $1.2 billion..

not sure why that number is listed on wiki

Fiserv Forum cost 524 million dollars

https://www.jsonline.com/story/opini...le/5384338001/

[Laramie]

.


Hoops wire October 6, 2022:

Per Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN, the idea of expansion teams in Seattle and Las Vegas remains is likely still “years away” from becoming a reality. Per Wojnarowski, the NBA is focused on the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, as well as new media rights deals, and will make those things a priority before considering expansion.

NBA Expansion Into Seattle, Las Vegas Likely Years Away: https://hoopswire.com/nba-expansion-...ly-years-away/

.

[gopokes88]

Yep. And still, built in 2018. OKC’s next building would likely open close to 2030, at best. Even that timeline would require some mountains be moved.

There’s a new NBA CBA due in 2024, and a new television deal in 2025. Either or both could significantly change the economy for owners, for better or worse. They are going to build in any revenue stream they can possibly think of. It’s sure to include Thunder-controlled mixed use, outside of the arena proper. That’s the new frontier in the NBA (and sports in general).

And who knows how much inflation, materials and labor cost changes - and on, and on - will affect costs on a building to be completed nearly a decade from now. Demolition of the old Myriad won’t be free, either.

This building is going to be close to a billion dollars. You can take that to the bank.

Yeah 2018 was pre-pandemic inflation too. Construction costs have basically doubled.

[gopokes88]

It's going to get built, and it will be world class. $1B+. OKC (mostly through MAPS) now has a 30 year track record of getting things done.

The Thunder are going absolutely no where. The ownership group is OKC based sans Kaiser (but Tulsa can't support an NBA team) and is committed to OKC and OK a whole. They are very aware of the status symbol of being a pro sports town and state, something Arkansas, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico will never be.

Holt is not a mayor that thinks small, he and the chamber of commerce will plan big.

The backroom deals to get the sausage made will make anyone who cares about Govt Accountability furious, but that's simply the only way to get things actually done.

It will be incredible when it opens, and continue to be part of the fuel that drives OKC forward.

[BDP]

not sure why that number is listed on wiki

Fiserv Forum cost 524 million dollars

https://www.jsonline.com/story/opini...le/5384338001/

WIth a lot of the newer arenas being part of a larger entertainment "district" development, I wonder if there are often different cost listings, some using the cost of the arena itself, and others listing the cost of the entire development. I haven't seen anything that specifically separates out the two, just specuflating.

I also wonder when people post their imaginary numbers here, if they are talking about just the arena or an entire imagined development of what could surround the arena, as well.

[fortpatches]

They are very aware of the status symbol of being a pro sports town and state, something Arkansas, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico will never be.

Kansas has Sporting KC.

[caaokc]

I bet the spot where Paycom is will be the entertainment district by the new arena, or the empty lots between Scissortail and Myriad.

[BoulderSooner]

Kansas has Sporting KC.

they play in KC Missouri

[BoulderSooner]

I bet the spot where Paycom is will be the entertainment district by the new arena, or the empty lots between Scissortail and Myriad.

more likely the remaining land on the current Cox / Prairie super block

[BoulderSooner]

WIth a lot of the newer arenas being part of a larger entertainment "district" development, I wonder if there are often different cost listings, some using the cost of the arena itself, and others listing the cost of the entire development. I haven't seen anything that specifically separates out the two, just specuflating.

I also wonder when people post their imaginary numbers here, if they are talking about just the arena or an entire imagined development of what could surround the arena, as well.

i would bet you are correct .. in this analysis

[okccowan]

Sporting KC plays in Kansas, not MO

[BoulderSooner]

Sporting KC plays in Kansas, not MO

thank you for the correction i was mistaken ..

[Bill Robertson]

Sporting KC plays in Kansas, not MO

The posters who've said Kansas are correct. Sporting KC plays in Children's Mercy Park in Kansas City, Kansas.

[gopokes88]

It's a big 4 in pro sports.

Soccer might get there and make it a big 5 eventually, but by no measure are they on that same level.

[Laramie]

Chase Center (Arena), San Francisco

Broke ground: January 17, 2017
Opened: September 6, 2019
Construction cost: (US$1.48 billion in 2021 dollars[2])

Capacity: NBA - Basketball: 18,064
Concerts: 19,500
Field size: 900,000 sq ft (84,000)

Could OKC build a similar arena on the 4 square block PSM old Myriad site for less than $1 billion. Remember the
city owns this site which has underground parking. The foundation & parking could be reconstructed and reinforced.

[gopokes88]

I don't see anyway the arena stays sub $1B

[Laramie]

I don't see anyway the arena stays sub $1B

Got to remember that land acquisition cost in downtown San Francisco is among the highest in the country.

[chssooner]

I don't see anyway the arena stays sub $1B

Are you kidding? Please tell me you are. Solely the arena being $1 billion? Bahahahahahaha!

[Urbanized]

Got to remember that land acquisition cost in downtown San Francisco is among the highest in the country.

The Warriors bought the land in question from Salesforce for about $155 million. You are correct that this would not be required in the case of a new downtown OKC arena on the site of Myriad/PSM. But it fails to account for remediation, demolition and utilities relocation at the site, which are hard costs. Demo will also be made more expensive by the demo of the underground parking, which could not be repurposed in this instance.

The most important variable, however, is time. The Chase Center site was acquired in 2014, and the arena was built in the intervening years and dedicated in 2019. The cost of almost everything has increased greatly since then. Just factoring inflation from 2019 to 2023 would place the price of Chase closer to $1.7B. And the new OKC arena wouldn't be complete until around 2030, at best. So more than a decade after Chase. We'd all be best served by not fantasizing that simply being in Oklahoma will greatly drive down the cost of this building, well below that of similar buildings built a decade or two earlier. The building will almost certainly be $1 billion, quite possibly more.

[Urbanized]

Are you kidding? Please tell me you are. Solely the arena being $1 billion? Bahahahahahaha!

Bet.

[king183]

If we build the arena right, meaning we don't skimp on features and functions that will ultimately need to be added at a later date, it's almost certainly going to be more than $1 billion. I have a feeling the city may try to come in below $1 billion when the effort is first announced (e.g., $850 million), but as the project progress, that number will go up.

[chssooner]

Bet.

I mean, name the $1 billion ARENAS. Not the surrounding developments, not a new parking garage. Just the arena. I will wait.

The list is maybe 2 or 3. Amd then compare the land cost there with the fact OKC doesn't have to buy land, is dirt-cheap, and has low labor costs.