New Downtown Arena

[April in the Plaza]

Would love to see a 20,500 seat arena. Although you could set aside a section 2,000 seats at the very top level for NBA basketball where you're only using 18,500 seats.

If demand grows like an NCAA Regional, open the full arena. I want Oklahoma City to be able to host an SEC basketball tournament or a Big 12 basketball tournament when the conference expands.

Hopefully OSU is able to land in a better conference at some point. The Big 12 has seen its best days and won’t be ELITE going forward.

[Dob Hooligan]

Hopefully OSU is able to land in a better conference at some point. The Big 12 has seen its best days and won’t be ELITE going forward.

I think the Power 5 is going to become the Power 4 within the next year. And it is entirely possible, IMO, that the Pac 12 is going to be shredded up so completely by Memorial Day that they will become a Group of 5 conference. I think the Big 12 offer to the "4 corner" schools is real and acceptance is at hand. As soon as that happens, then Washington, Oregon, Cal and Stanford are off to the B1G. After that is done, then the Pac 12 will grab what they can find in the Mountain West and All American Conference; put together a streaming/TV package that features heavy payments from Amazon Prime and revenue participation from Stadium and ION TV in such a manner that they can claim they are the "Media Model of the Future".

[Swake]

Hopefully OSU is able to land in a better conference at some point. The Big 12 has seen its best days and won’t be ELITE going forward.

In basketball? Seriously?

[BoulderSooner]

I think the Power 5 is going to become the Power 4 within the next year. And it is entirely possible, IMO, that the Pac 12 is going to be shredded up so completely by Memorial Day that they will become a Group of 5 conference. I think the Big 12 offer to the "4 corner" schools is real and acceptance is at hand. As soon as that happens, then Washington, Oregon, Cal and Stanford are off to the B1G. After that is done, then the Pac 12 will grab what they can find in the Mountain West and All American Conference; put together a streaming/TV package that features heavy payments from Amazon Prime and revenue participation from Stadium and ION TV in such a manner that they can claim they are the "Media Model of the Future".

it will be the power 2 and in most ways it already is the Big 10 and SEC will both have double the tv money a year compared to the ACC and big 12 and the pac 12 will be even lower ..

[caaokc]

I doubt the new arena will hold 20,000+ - probably closer to the current capacity in the 18k range

[Bellaboo]

Hopefully OSU is able to land in a better conference at some point. The Big 12 has seen its best days and won’t be ELITE going forward.

The Big 12 has ruled college basketball for several years now. And when Houston joins it will be stronger, as they are the top team in the country as we speak.

[Laramie]

More on current NBA arenas:

Spectrum Center (arena), Charlotte, NC

Owner - City of Charlotte
Operator - Hornets Sports & Entertainment
Capacity - NBA Basketball: 19,077
Broke ground - July 29, 2003
Opened October 21, 2005
Construction cost: $260 million
Renovation: $215 million for Spectrum Center & $60 million for new practice facility.

[Laramie]

More on current NBA arenas:

Scotiabank Arena, Toronto, Ontario

Owner: Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment
Capacity - NBA Basketball: 19,800 (20,511 with standing room)
Broke ground: March 12, 1997 (reconstruction, 1938 - original building)
Opened: February 19, 1999
Construction cost: $265 million ($404 million in 2021)

[Laramie]

Future NBA Arenas Being Built (2023-2031)

Oklahoma City Thunder beginning discussions on new arena.

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[Laramie]

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OKC mayor: 2023 'very likely the year' for new arena talks. https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.co...om-center.aspx

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[Laramie]

More on current NBA arenas:

Crypto.com arena formerly Staples Center, Los Angeles

Owner: Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG)

Construction cost: $375 million - $610 million in 2021 dollars

Broke ground: March 31, 1997
Opened: October 17, 1999

950,000 square feet
NBA Basketball: 19,079
NHL ice hockey: 18,230

[borchard]

I doubt the new arena will hold 20,000+ - probably closer to the current capacity in the 18k range

I think you're right. The Clippers new arena in LA will only have 18,500 apparently

[Laramie]

NBA small market cities under 2 million MSA population:

40. 1,566,487 Milwaukee - Fiserv Forum - 17,385, $554 million,
43. 1,336,103 Memphis - FedEx Forum - 18,116, $359 million in 2021 dollars.
47. 1,261,726 New Orleans - 16,838, $185 million in 2021 dollars, $54 million renovation 2019, Investment: $239 million
42. 1,425,695 Oklahoma City (TBD)
46. 1,263,061 Salt Lake City - Vivint Arena - 18,306, - $193 million in 2021 dollars & $125 million in renovations 2017. Investment:

More than $318 million.

An arena comparable to our current Paycom Center capacity 18,203 will put OKC on the high end capacity
for NBA small market cities under 2 million MSA population.

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[chssooner]

OKC can do a lot, and build a top-notch arena for $500 to $650 million. OKC is not LA or anywhere in California, with insane cost adjustments.

[Laramie]

OKC can do a lot, and build a top-notch arena for $500 to $650 million. OKC is not LA or anywhere in California, with insane cost adjustments.

Interesting point. IDK what our bonding capacity is or if we've reached our max, hopes the City & Ownership explore all funding options:

Bonds, MAPS 4 Extension, Ownership Group's contribution and help from the State of Oklahoma. We have $70 million on pause from MAPS 4, some of those funds could be used to study what our city will need and hire a firm to design a new arena.

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[April in the Plaza]

OKC can do a lot, and build a top-notch arena for $500 to $650 million. OKC is not LA or anywhere in California, with insane cost adjustments.

500 to 650 M's was probably a reasonable number if construction had started in 2018 or so. By the time the new one breaks ground, we'll definitely be pushing a full B (or more) to get anything half way nice. That's just the way the cookie crumbles these days, imo.

[Laramie]

Non NBA Cities checking Oklahoma City's pulse:

Exploring cities that could have an NBA interest in expansion or relocation.

Enterprise Center, Downtown St. Louis, MO:
(Former names: Kiel Center, Savvis Center, Scottrade Center

Owner: City of St. Louis
Operator: SLB Acquisition Holdings LLC
Broke ground: December 14, 1992[3]
Opened: October 8, 1994
Construction cost: $261 million in 2021 dollars; $150 million renovation. Investment: $411 million
Anchor Tenant: St. Louis Blues, NHL

21. St. Louis, MO-IL MSA 2,809,299

Fortune 500 companies (8)

NBA capacity: 22,000 EST
Supports: Major League Baseball (MLB) Cardinals, Major League Soccer - St. Louis City SC.

NBA in St. Louis: https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/lo...1-b9827880ffae


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[Urbanized]

People all need to understand this building will be close to a billion dollars. Citing 30 year old buildings, originally designed for the NBA economy of the nineties - recent renovation or not - even with inflation-adjusted dollars, is at odds with reality. It’s a disservice to readers. Doing so repeatedly and publicly will only lead to confusion and frustration from the public when the number is 2-3 times more than those buildings.

Many of those arenas are already obsolete. Our new building will be state-of-the-art and state-of-the-NBA when it is completed nearly a decade from now. Most of those cities will be undergoing this very same exercise within the next decade, themselves.

[BoulderSooner]

fiserv Forum is the only one that has any real comparison

[Urbanized]

fiserv Forum is the only one that has any real comparison

Yep. And still, built in 2018. OKC’s next building would likely open close to 2030, at best. Even that timeline would require some mountains be moved.

There’s a new NBA CBA due in 2024, and a new television deal in 2025. Either or both could significantly change the economy for owners, for better or worse. They are going to build in any revenue stream they can possibly think of. It’s sure to include Thunder-controlled mixed use, outside of the arena proper. That’s the new frontier in the NBA (and sports in general).

And who knows how much inflation, materials and labor cost changes - and on, and on - will affect costs on a building to be completed nearly a decade from now. Demolition of the old Myriad won’t be free, either.

This building is going to be close to a billion dollars. You can take that to the bank.

[Urbanized]

And it’s worth again pointing out that by the time this building opens, Paycom will be roughly 30 years old. Yes, there have been renovations. But again, a new building would surely include attached mixed use, potentially allowing the team to - again, and importantly - expand revenue streams.

There are also numerous non-NBA reasons that a new building is desirable, including greatly-expanded loading docks and other back-of-house improvements, many of which will allow OKC to host many more non-NBA events such as concerts. We’re already doing much better in this regard due to the current ASM management and City-ASM agreement, but they are seriously cramped with an inability to host simultaneous load-ins/load-outs. There’s significant community benefit potential here beyond keeping the Thunder happy, profitable and settled-in.

[Laramie]

^ ^ ^

Excellent points. Thanks for your take on this Urbanized.

Citing inflation which is 14% on building materials, I doubt if OKC will build a $1 billion arena. Likely a $600 - $700 million on what is the old 4 square block PSM-Myriad site at maximum funding which will save the city $100 million on land-site acquisition. Counting the $700 million figure and $100 million land acquisition if built on the old Myriad site, an $800 million OKC investment will secure the NBA in OKC for the next two decades.

IIRC Milwaukee's Fiserv Forum (arena portion) cost $554 million as part of a $1 billion downtown development - 'OKC explores lessons from Milwaukee': Velocity https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/ins...ack=super_blog

BTW Urbanized, were you apart of the delegation visit to Milwaukee. . . Keep posting my man.

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[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
I wasn’t. I’m fortunate enough to know and associate with a lot of people worth knowing, but I don’t have that level of influence.

[king183]

Yep. And still, built in 2018. OKC’s next building would likely open close to 2030, at best. Even that timeline would require some mountains be moved.

There’s a new NBA CBA due in 2024, and a new television deal in 2025. Either or both could significantly change the economy for owners, for better or worse. They are going to build in any revenue stream they can possibly think of. It’s sure to include Thunder-controlled mixed use, outside of the arena proper. That’s the new frontier in the NBA (and sports in general).

And who knows how much inflation, materials and labor cost changes - and on, and on - will affect costs on a building to be completed nearly a decade from now. Demolition of the old Myriad won’t be free, either.

This building is going to be close to a billion dollars. You can take that to the bank.

Another thing to keep an eye on that will have downstream effects on the arena: whether sports betting is legalized by the legislature this year. The Thunder have a major financial interest in seeing betting legalized, thereby allowing betting in arena during games.

[BoulderSooner]

Another thing to keep an eye on that will have downstream effects on the arena: whether sports betting is legalized by the legislature this year. The Thunder have a major financial interest in seeing betting legalized, thereby allowing betting in arena during games.

the way the state is proposing sports betting It would be 100% tribal .. only the same way our full casinos are currently

there would not be one in the stadium unless state law was massively changed it won't happen in the future

also other then added interest in the sport teams /leagues don't really make money from sports betting (despite what they would like)