Car Question - For Those With Knowledge of Dealerships/Manufacturers

[OKC Guide]

So my wife's car (Ford Focus) just had the oil pump go out, which in turn has ruined the entire engine (not because we drove it to that point but because that's the way it's manufactured). We stopped immediately when the light came on and towed it 180 miles back home to avoid ruining the engine.

Apparently there's a Service Message on it that says the entire engine needs to be replaced. So Ford has known this was an issue for a long time. Of course, there's no recall on it and we were never told this was an issue, and though the 5 years hasn't elapsed on the powertrain warranty, we're at 67,000 miles so it's out of warranty. We've gone through everyone at Ford and they won't help at all.

The Service Manager at Joe Cooper in Yukon, where we bought it, has been on our side dealing with Ford but has done all he can do. He says we can talk to the General Manager but he will just refer back to service. So for anyone who has ever worked at a dealership or possibly knows any tricks with Ford, do we have any other options or are we just SOL?

[shartel_ave]

So my wife's car (Ford Focus) just had the oil pump go out, which in turn has ruined the entire engine (not because we drove it to that point but because that's the way it's manufactured). We stopped immediately when the light came on and towed it 180 miles back home to avoid ruining the engine.

Apparently there's a Service Message on it that says the entire engine needs to be replaced. So Ford has known this was an issue for a long time. Of course, there's no recall on it and we were never told this was an issue, and though the 5 years hasn't elapsed on the powertrain warranty, we're at 67,000 miles so it's out of warranty. We've gone through everyone at Ford and they won't help at all.

The Service Manager at Joe Cooper in Yukon, where we bought it, has been on our side dealing with Ford but has done all he can do. He says we can talk to the General Manager but he will just refer back to service. So for anyone who has ever worked at a dealership or possibly knows any tricks with Ford, do we have any other options or are we just SOL?

weird that you stopped as soon as you saw the oil pressure light and the engine is beyond repair. You would have to drive a bit until the internal engine components, such as bearings, camshafts and crankshafts, are starved of pressurized oil.

I would think the light would come on as soon as the oil pressure dropped.

I'll ask my brother he was an auto mechanic and now an aircraft structural maintenance mechanic.

[OKC Guide]

You could theoretically change the oil pump only, since we didn't run it long enough for the engine to seize up, but the Ford Special Service Message says the engine has to be replaced along with the oil pump and the turbo. Apparently it's all run by one belt on this thing and when one fails, it irreparably damages the others.

[Bill Robertson]

I've built and rebuilt a lot of engines in my life. Albeit Chevy & Ford V8s. But I have trouble believing that any engine is shot the instant an oil pump quits. It would take at least a little time for the bearings to go dry and score the surfaces which is what would kill the engine. I think I'd talk to a couple non-dealer shops and see what they have to say. It's out of warranty anyway.

[OKC Guide]

Here's a link that discusses it: https://www.justanswer.com/ford/gudh...871-miles.html

"Some 2016-2018 Focus and 2018-2019 EcoSport vehicles equipped with a 1.0L EcoBoost engine, 6F15 automatic transmission and built on or before 3-Jul-2019, may exhibit an illuminated oil pressure warning lamp with a loss of engine oil pressure. This may be due to a failed engine oil pump belt tensioner which leads to a loss of engine oil pressure. If engine oil pressure at idle is below 10 psi and/or metal contamination is present in the engine oil, no further diagnostics should be performed. Replace the engine assembly to correct this condition."

[BoulderSooner]

You could theoretically change the oil pump only, since we didn't run it long enough for the engine to seize up, but the Ford Special Service Message says the engine has to be replaced along with the oil pump and the turbo. Apparently it's all run by one belt on this thing and when one fails, it irreparably damages the others.

can't imagine that if you stopped driving right when you got the warning light that there is any damage to your engine or turbo ..

[Bill Robertson]

Here's a link that discusses it: https://www.justanswer.com/ford/gudh...871-miles.html

"Some 2016-2018 Focus and 2018-2019 EcoSport vehicles equipped with a 1.0L EcoBoost engine, 6F15 automatic transmission and built on or before 3-Jul-2019, may exhibit an illuminated oil pressure warning lamp with a loss of engine oil pressure. This may be due to a failed engine oil pump belt tensioner which leads to a loss of engine oil pressure. If engine oil pressure at idle is below 10 psi and/or metal contamination is present in the engine oil, no further diagnostics should be performed. Replace the engine assembly to correct this condition."

This describes any engine. Key part of this is "metal contamination is present in the engine oil, no further diagnostics should be performed. Replace the engine assembly to correct this condition."[/QUOTE]
This describes any engine. Key part of this is "metal contamination is present in the engine oil, no further diagnostics should be performed. Replace the engine assembly to correct this condition." The question is, if shut down early enough there may not be metal contamination in the oil.

[Bill Robertson]

You could theoretically change the oil pump only, since we didn't run it long enough for the engine to seize up, but the Ford Special Service Message says the engine has to be replaced along with the oil pump and the turbo. Apparently it's all run by one belt on this thing and when one fails, it irreparably damages the others.

Just my opinion but if it's out of warranty the Ford Special Service Message isn't worth the time it took me to type this. It's at least worth having a non-dealer pull the oil pan and see if there's excessive metal particles in it. If not there's a VERY good chance the engine is just fine.

[Zuplar]

I'll echo what others have said, take it to a non-dealer to get their professional opinion. Of course Ford wants to replace the motor. If it's under warranty, it's easy for them write off those losses and it saves them time from actually fixing the motor, by instead just replacing it with another that will inevitably probably have issues. I knew someone that drove several miles on a car without oil, and it ended up being fine.

Also I've personally had experiences (numerous) with Joe Cooper in Yukon and I find them to be unknowledgeable or down right deceptive. I always recommend people steer clear of them, and while they may technically end up be right here, for your sake I'd get another opinion.

[OKC Guide]

Appreciate the thoughts. At this point, I just need to get it back up and running again and dump it, I guess. Of course, it's the worst possible time to be looking for a car, and we had a nice, low payment with that one. Really surprises me that Ford won't do anything, though I guess it shouldn't. It is out of warranty, after all. Apparently, though we've owned 5 Fords in the last 20 years, our customer loyalty score isn't high enough since a couple of them were purchased used and not from a Ford dealership.

Edit: This is my first car with Joe Cooper in Yukon. My brother has bought several with Joe Cooper in Tulsa, though I think they've since changed. The Service Manager has been very nice and thinks Ford should take care of it, but not much else he can do, I guess.

[Bill Robertson]

Appreciate the thoughts. At this point, I just need to get it back up and running again and dump it, I guess. Of course, it's the worst possible time to be looking for a car, and we had a nice, low payment with that one. Really surprises me that Ford won't do anything, though I guess it shouldn't. It is out of warranty, after all. Apparently, though we've owned 5 Fords in the last 20 years, our customer loyalty score isn't high enough since a couple of them were purchased used and not from a Ford dealership.

Edit: This is my first car with Joe Cooper in Yukon. My brother has bought several with Joe Cooper in Tulsa, though I think they've since changed. The Service Manager has been very nice and thinks Ford should take care of it, but not much else he can do, I guess.

I wouldn't give up on it that easy. If an independent shop pulls the oil pan and there's nothing in the oil the engine is fine. Put an oil pump, a new belt and a water pump while the front of the engine is apart and you should be good for a long time.

[OKC Guide]

Thanks Bill. Service manager says he can put in a new belt and see if everything is okay, but if not, it's going to cost me that much more. He's trying to steer me to a new engine with a 3 year warranty. Based on all the advice here, I'm going to call around. I don't really have a trusted guy right now, as we've had new cars lately and thus no need for a mechanic outside of the dealership with warranty work, so any recommendations are appreciated.

[Roger S]

Car Doctor.... Blue Seal of Excellence ASE Certified shop.... I've been using them over 15 years and my 97 Dodge Ram and 11 Ford Ranger still run great thanks to them.

Only drawback is they have been on an almost 2 week waiting list for about the last year..... Best thing I can say about them is they will explain everything to you in a way you can understand if you're not a car person.

[shartel_ave]

^^^^^^^I love Car Doctor they are extremely professional and up front and they are all certified in certain specialties. Last I was there all of their certifications were on the wall.

[Dob Hooligan]

Suggest you plan on this taking weeks to resolve. Don't make a snap judgement. I think your chances of success are ranked by the following scenarios;

1. Bought new at Ford dealer and had the oil changed religiously at the dealer only.

2. Bought used at Ford dealer and changed oil at Take 5, but have solid records.

3. Bought from Carmax, etc. changed the oil when I got around to it. Didn't keep receipts.

4. Bought it from my cousin's uncles' sister's boyfriend, and ....oil...what's oil?

I think dealers still have "Good will" allowance. Factory usually provides them a monthly dollar amount they can spend on out of warranty issues. But I don't think any dealer can do a $10,000 engine on a car that is 17,000 miles out of warranty without major heat being applied to the factory. Forgive me for telling you what you have already heard.

Your only hope, IMO, is you have solid oil change records and there is a Class Action lawsuit brewing.

Next choice would be replacing the oil pump and taking your chances. I suggest non-dealer on that. You are so deep in on money and the risk is so high that the cost of dealer parts and labor no longer has any benefit IMO.

Understand that you do not have the ability to "pump and dump" on this. Our modern CarFax world has made it where your VIN has been recorded as having this problem. I am in the auto body business, and can say that every estimating software package says that the software provider can share the info that your VIN was in my shop for whatever reason. I know you are not trying to hide what is going on with your car, but understand the Meta Verse is going to helpfully share your info.

[Bill Robertson]

Thanks Bill. Service manager says he can put in a new belt and see if everything is okay, but if not, it's going to cost me that much more. He's trying to steer me to a new engine with a 3 year warranty. Based on all the advice here, I'm going to call around. I don't really have a trusted guy right now, as we've had new cars lately and thus no need for a mechanic outside of the dealership with warranty work, so any recommendations are appreciated.

Of course he's trying to steer you towards a new engine. Dealers and manufacturers are in business to make profit not do the best for us the consumer. Car Doctor is a good suggestion. Have them actually check the engine. Just throwing a belt on it could be a disaster. Ford probably knows this. The engine needs to be evaluated by someone who knows what they're doing and not by someone who is guided by their corporate directives.

[OKC Guide]

Suggest you plan on this taking weeks to resolve. Don't make a snap judgement. I think your chances of success are ranked by the following scenarios;

1. Bought new at Ford dealer and had the oil changed religiously at the dealer only.

2. Bought used at Ford dealer and changed oil at Take 5, but have solid records.

3. Bought from Carmax, etc. changed the oil when I got around to it. Didn't keep receipts.

4. Bought it from my cousin's uncles' sister's boyfriend, and ....oil...what's oil?

I think dealers still have "Good will" allowance. Factory usually provides them a monthly dollar amount they can spend on out of warranty issues. But I don't think any dealer can do a $10,000 engine on a car that is 17,000 miles out of warranty without major heat being applied to the factory. Forgive me for telling you what you have already heard.

Your only hope, IMO, is you have solid oil change records and there is a Class Action lawsuit brewing.

Next choice would be replacing the oil pump and taking your chances. I suggest non-dealer on that. You are so deep in on money and the risk is so high that the cost of dealer parts and labor no longer has any benefit IMO.

Understand that you do not have the ability to "pump and dump" on this. Our modern CarFax world has made it where your VIN has been recorded as having this problem. I am in the auto body business, and can say that every estimating software package says that the software provider can share the info that your VIN was in my shop for whatever reason. I know you are not trying to hide what is going on with your car, but understand the Meta Verse is going to helpfully share your info.

Appreciate the thoughts. We're somewhere close to 2. We bought from Joe Cooper with 16,000 miles and have solid records of regular oil changes. It didn't do any good. Service Manager is willing to discount slightly the labor on a new engine, but that's it. We'll be calling a couple of mechanics today, including Car Doctor and one we had experience with many years ago - see what they say.

Edit: Just to clarify numbers, the engine is more like 5,000 and we're 7,000 miles out of warranty. Plenty of similar complaints online but no mention of class action that I can find. We've contacted NHTSA but no recall appears to be on the horizon.

[Dob Hooligan]

Appreciate the thoughts. We're somewhere close to 2. We bought from Joe Cooper with 16,000 miles and have solid records of regular oil changes. It didn't do any good. Service Manager is willing to discount slightly the labor on a new engine, but that's it. We'll be calling a couple of mechanics today, including Car Doctor and one we had experience with many years ago - see what they say.

Edit: Just to clarify numbers, the engine is more like 5,000 and we're 7,000 miles out of warranty. Plenty of similar complaints online but no mention of class action that I can find. We've contacted NHTSA but no recall appears to be on the horizon.

$5,000 installed? Is that a used engine?

[OKC Guide]

No, that's new. Engine is about 3,000, I believe.