El Coyote

[Dob Hooligan]

Yes, if only it WAS New Mexican Food. El Coyote isn't. Most people just take their work for it. It's just marketing.

Appears it is very effective marketing. Are you going to tell them how they are failing and how to do it better?

[TheTravellers]

Appears it is very effective marketing. Are you going to tell them how they are failing and how to do it better?

I haven't been there, but from the comments I've read, I'd say they're not failing from a monetary/business-sense viewpoint, but failing on delivering authentic New Mexican cuisine, and that could be fixed by going to New Mexico and seeing how they do it there (or at least using recipes that are authentically New Mexican), then test the recipes out with people that are completely familiar with and know New Mexican food. I always thought it was surprising that Stranger says he's from New Mexico (or went on vacations there or spent some considerable time there or ...), yet he's not delivering what people think of when they think of New Mexican food.

But if they stay busy and make money, as long as someone has their expectations set, then more power to them, I guess.

[Rover]

Appears it is very effective marketing. Are you going to tell them how they are failing and how to do it better?

Nope. If people who don’t know better want to believe it’s New Mexican, great. If they like it, great. They can call it Italian if they want.

[Oski]

I'm visiting Santa Fe next month, can you please recommend some good restaurants to try? Thank you!

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
Too many places there to list economically, really. Lots of holes in the wall, family places, fine dining options, many of them incredible. But personally my favorites are La Choza, The Shed, and Cafe Pasquale (especially for breakfast).

[catcherinthewry]

Are you going to tell them how they are failing and how to do it better?

For starters they could just google "recipes with hatch chilis".

[Rover]

Appears it is very effective marketing. Are you going to tell them how they are failing and how to do it better?

BTW, McDonald’s is very successful but I wouldn’t call it New Mexican food either. Though, they do have stores in New Mexico. �� So, maybe it is New Mexican food after all.

[MagzOK]

I'm visiting Santa Fe next month, can you please recommend some good restaurants to try? Thank you!

Cafe Pasquale and the Burrito Company for breakfast. The Denver Omelette at Pasquale is to die for and the breakfast Migas dish at Burrito Co is incredible, don't forget the bacon roll. We give Plaza Cafe high marks, too, as it's more diner style with some New Mexican flare. La Plazuela inside the La Fonda Hotel is superb -- they have the best chile relleno, their drinks are great, and the century old space is beautiful. Palacio, Tune Up Cafe, The Compound, Tomasitas, La Choza -- La Choza is owned by the same folks who own The Shed. Over the last 30 years or so, The Shed has become way too touristy for our taste and you wait for hours and the food is okay. Go to their other restaurant La Choza where in our opinion both the food and service are the better of the two. Okay so if you wanted to try a New Mexican style hamburger try Santa Fe Bite. They also have some good patty melts, etc. If you like milkshakes, the cherry milkshake is life changing at Blake's Lottaburger on N Guadalupe just outside of the Plaza. I had never even heard of a cherry milkshake made from cherry ice cream -- nobody around here does them. Well, Tuckers has one they do annually but it's cherry vanilla, not made from cherry ice cream. Anyway, the burger there is pretty good, too, if you want to change it up.

If you really want a treat, make a lunch reservation and take short leisurely drive north of SF out to Rancho de Chimayo. First of all it's a beautiful drive. Then the food is incredible. It's inside an old New Mexican ranch house.

We visit on average about once per quarter or maybe a little longer, but several times per year. These are our favorite restaurants.

I'll tie this into El Coyote -- I mean, the patio is nice and when you walk through the restaurant sure you have a similar feeling of walking through the 300 year old building where the Shed is located in Santa Fe, but in the two times we've tried it the food just doesn't compare to any out there. El Coyote has queso fresco all over their menu which you will not find in most places in SF. Where is the butternut squash, pasole, nixtamal corn, or hominy on the EC menu? El Coyote has avocado all over the menu and you just don't find avocados in New Mexican food. Now I do love avocados, but we're talking about authenticity here. And another thing, you will not find anaheim peppers anywhere in SF which is what El Coyote bases just about all their dishes. They use hatch chiles in NM.

On a side note -- if you're driving from OKC, Amarillo is exactly four hours and a good stopping point. We will usually stop, stretch, and eat at Blue Sky Hamburgers on the way out there for an awesome awesome burger. They have incredible onion strings if you're into those. On the way back we will do the same but at Rosa's Cafe for some semi fast Tex-Mex. I grew up with Rosas in Midland and San Angelo and it's just as good now as it was then. Their tortillas and queso . . .

[Dob Hooligan]

BTW, McDonald’s is very successful but I wouldn’t call it New Mexican food either. Though, they do have stores in New Mexico. �� So, maybe it is New Mexican food after all.

McDonald’s does not claim to be New Mexican food, or any locational food. It does claim to be, and is, hamburgers, French fires and other fast food. They operate in a category with countless competitors, and they are more successful than any restaurant on earth. While many people claim that it is not “proper” or “quality” hamburgers, the vast majority are buying and eating them.

[Urbanized]

I do think McDonald’s should add a hatch chili burger to the menu and take this thread full circle

[OkieBerto]

I haven't been there, but from the comments I've read, I'd say they're not failing from a monetary/business-sense viewpoint, but failing on delivering authentic New Mexican cuisine, and that could be fixed by going to New Mexico and seeing how they do it there (or at least using recipes that are authentically New Mexican), then test the recipes out with people that are completely familiar with and know New Mexican food. I always thought it was surprising that Stranger says he's from New Mexico (or went on vacations there or spent some considerable time there or ...), yet he's not delivering what people think of when they think of New Mexican food.

But if they stay busy and make money, as long as someone has their expectations set, then more power to them, I guess.

Stranger has been to New Mexico and likely tried many restaurants there. Heck, there is also an Italian place there called Osteria. I totally agree with you on how to update the New Mexican menu. All he needs are some good ol yearly Santa Fe vacationers to come and eat for free and they will give great notes. I will be there in 2 weeks. I will probably stop by just about every place that claims to be authentic New Mexican food.

[OkieBerto]

I'm visiting Santa Fe next month, can you please recommend some good restaurants to try? Thank you!

Palacio is a great spot. I try and go every time I am there. There are some James Beard Nominees there too. Alkemē Is up for Best New Restaurant
, Dolina Cafe and Bakery is up for best chef, Zacatlan is also up for best chef. I am going in two weeks and trying everything I can. Have fun!

[OkieBerto]

Appears it is very effective marketing. Are you going to tell them how they are failing and how to do it better?

If you need effective marketing to convince people the food is good, then you might have a problem. Some of the best places never spend a dime on marketing and will still fill the house every day. Stranger has always been a great marketer and someone who runs a great location. I have always enjoyed being at his establishments, but the food seems to always have some sort of problem. El Coyote will be successful no matter if he changes the menu or not. People love the location and the drinks, and the way the staff treats them.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm gonna suggest when the McDonald's comparisons come in, then we are a few posts away from the "snob" vs "unwashed" argument, and then Pete has to delete a few posts and knock our heads together.

So, in the interest of detente.

I am old enough to (barely) remember a time when McDonald's wasn't in OKC, and Mexican food was almost exclusively El Chico or El Charrito. Anyone else have an older relative who honestly said "Pissa", because that "Pizza" word was really foreign?

As new food categories are introduced to an area, one way to help it succeed and grow long term is to make it appeal to the most tummies possible at the beginning and broaden the variety with time. Hence my earlier Mexican and Pizza references. I recall the early version of those foods to OKC would be considered weak or inauthentic today. But they did well then and helped broaden the understanding and market.

I think food arousal might be the most subjective interest in all humanity. Only thing more subjective might be sexual arousal. They are both intensely personal and drive strong opinions.

[Rover]

I'm gonna suggest when the McDonald's comparisons come in, then we are a few posts away from the "snob" vs "unwashed" argument, and then Pete has to delete a few posts and knock our heads together.

So, in the interest of detente.

I am old enough to (barely) remember a time when McDonald's wasn't in OKC, and Mexican food was almost exclusively El Chico or El Charrito. Anyone else have an older relative who honestly said "Pissa", because that "Pizza" word was really foreign?

As new food categories are introduced to an area, one way to help it succeed and grow long term is to make it appeal to the most tummies possible at the beginning and broaden the variety with time. Hence my earlier Mexican and Pizza references. I recall the early version of those foods to OKC would be considered weak or inauthentic today. But they did well then and helped broaden the understanding and market.

I think food arousal might be the most subjective interest in all humanity. Only thing more subjective might be sexual arousal. They are both intensely personal and drive strong opinions.

Well that got strange quickly.

Okc is well past the time you want to fall back on. Btw I am probably at least your age. Back then, Okc wasn’t alone in the infancy of ethnic food offerings and the naivety.

Saying that El Coyote isn’t authentic NM food isn’t arrousal or preference , it is just inaccurate.

[OkieBerto]

As someone who grew up in OKC in the 80's, I remember loving Latin, Asian, and Mediterranean foods. I went to school with the Sweiss family. We have had plenty of flavors in this town for a very long time. Not sure we really need to appeal to most tummies. I think tummies are begging for authentic foods from around the world. Just look at the lines at Kacao. My favorite new spot is Riserva. I am at Basil a few times a month. I love how much we have to choose from here.

[ManAboutTown]

Cafe Pasquale and the Burrito Company for breakfast. The Denver Omelette at Pasquale is to die for and the breakfast Migas dish at Burrito Co is incredible, don't forget the bacon roll. We give Plaza Cafe high marks, too, as it's more diner style with some New Mexican flare. La Plazuela inside the La Fonda Hotel is superb -- they have the best chile relleno, their drinks are great, and the century old space is beautiful. Palacio, Tune Up Cafe, The Compound, Tomasitas, La Choza -- La Choza is owned by the same folks who own The Shed. Over the last 30 years or so, The Shed has become way too touristy for our taste and you wait for hours and the food is okay. Go to their other restaurant La Choza where in our opinion both the food and service are the better of the two. Okay so if you wanted to try a New Mexican style hamburger try Santa Fe Bite. They also have some good patty melts, etc. If you like milkshakes, the cherry milkshake is life changing at Blake's Lottaburger on N Guadalupe just outside of the Plaza. I had never even heard of a cherry milkshake made from cherry ice cream -- nobody around here does them. Well, Tuckers has one they do annually but it's cherry vanilla, not made from cherry ice cream. Anyway, the burger there is pretty good, too, if you want to change it up.

We visit on average about once per quarter or maybe a little longer, but several times per year. These are our favorite restaurants.

I'll tie this into El Coyote -- I mean, the patio is nice and when you walk through the restaurant sure you have a similar feeling of walking through the 300 year old building where the Shed is located in Santa Fe, but in the two times we've tried it the food just doesn't compare to any out there. El Coyote has queso fresco all over their menu which you will not find in most places in SF. Where is the butternut squash, pasole, nixtamal corn, or hominy on the EC menu? El Coyote has avocado all over the menu and you just don't find avocados in New Mexican food. Now I do love avocados, but we're talking about authenticity here. And another thing, you will not find anaheim peppers anywhere in SF which is what El Coyote bases just about all their dishes. They use hatch chiles in NM.

Not to split hairs, because I personally believe that they have THE BEST food in Santa Fe, but it's Cafe PASQUAL'S, not Pasquale, named for St. Pasqual, the patron saint of cooks and kitchens.

Also, you asked where certain things are on El Coyote's menu, specifically posole and hominy, when clearly the posole is on the appetizer menu and hominy is served with entrees as a side dish.

You also stated that El Coyote has avocado "all over the menu" and said "you just don't find avocados in New Mexican food," when Cafe Pasqual's also has avocado and guacamole frequently on its menus (including on their Carne Asada, which may be the best I've ever tasted). Neither restaurant offers guac or avocado on their "traditional" New Mexican dishes like stacked/layered enchiladas with Christmas sauce and green chili cheeseburgers, but both clearly offer dishes with these ingredients.

Are you going to find avocado or guacamole at a small, traditional New Mexican restaurant in Santa Fe or the rest of the state? No, just as you won't find chicken fried rice, ham sandwiches or coq au vin. However, both Cafe Pasqual's and El Coyote have varied menus with a mixture of New Mexican, Mexican, and Tex-Mex dishes. Taking shots at El Coyote for not being "authentic New Mexican" is misplaced, as Cafe Pasqual is also clearly not authentic New Mexican.

Look, I have no stake in the success or failure of El Coytote. I have met Jonathon Stranger once or twice but don't personally know him. I simply think the criticism of El Coyote literally as soon as it opened about it not being "authentic" is misplaced and unfair. The food and cocktails are tasty. The bar and patio areas are welcoming, cozy and frequently packed with patrons, and by most standards this restaurant appears to be very successful.

If you want an "authentic New Mexican restaurant" without avocados, head to some Mom-and-Pop place in Taos, Red River, or many other places in Santa Fe. Just don't head to Cafe Pasqual's, because that's not what that outstanding restaurant purports aspires to be.

[MagzOK]

Are you going to find avocado or guacamole at a small, traditional New Mexican restaurant in Santa Fe or the rest of the state? No, just as you won't find chicken fried rice, ham sandwiches or coq au vin. However, both Cafe Pasqual's and El Coyote have varied menus with a mixture of New Mexican, Mexican, and Tex-Mex dishes. Taking shots at El Coyote for not being "authentic New Mexican" is misplaced .....

I don't believe it's misplaced. El Coyote clearly paints itself to be a "New Mexican Bar and Cantina" -- it's right there front and center on their website. They are not aiming to be a "mixture" of cuisines. That's fine if they want to be that, but in looking at their website and their menus at the restaurant they want to be a New Mexican restaurant. So I will critique it as much.

Thanks.