Panasonic Battery Plant

[gopokes88]

Then why weren't we in on this sooner?

It's a failure and we need to learn from it otherwise as a state we'll continue missing out.

Because they called Kansas first.

These deals come down to hilariously small things that are often out of the states control.

The GE oil and gas center, which was a massive win but the oil market didn’t cooperate. It came down to a GE official was in the same suite as some Okc O&G CEOs at OU’s bowl game. We were called first, Texas was brought in late for leverage and we landed it.

[Pete]

Because they called Kansas first.

Begs another question: Why?


This sounds more and more like the Tesla thing where we make a very late play to try and win even after it's pretty clear they preferred another neighboring state.


Is this what our economic development efforts amount to? Trying to horn in on deals already destined for bordering states... Being used as a bargaining chip and never landing the deal and probably not having a legitimate shot?

[Thomas Vu]

Putting stock into anything Elon says, another risky venture.

[dcsooner]

Because they called Kansas first.

These deals come down to hilariously small things that are often out of the states control.

The GE oil and gas center, which was a massive win but the oil market didn’t cooperate. It came down to a GE official was in the same suite as some Okc O&G CEOs at OU’s bowl game. We were called first, Texas was brought in late for leverage and we landed it.

Ever notice that almost everything Oklahoma "wins" never pans out long term? Auto, Printing, GE etc?

[Dob Hooligan]

I think we need to take that Panasonic money and jump into semiconductors. We have land, water and money. Let's get in front on this national imperative

[gopokes88]

Begs another question: Why?


This sounds more and more like the Tesla thing where we make a very late play to try and win even after it's pretty clear they preferred another neighboring state.


Is this what our economic development efforts amount to? Trying to horn in on deals already destined for bordering states... Being used as a bargaining chip and never landing the deal and probably not having a legitimate shot?

I have a friend who works in this type of business. There's an entire career path dedicated to pairing companies to tax incentives for large scale operations.
Every single one comes down to something quirky that's often out of the control of the state legislature.

Ohio had a huge leg up to get the new $20B semiconductor facility because

"OHIO’s connection to Intel began in the company’s inception with the early collaboration of alumnus Hua-Thye “HT” Chua, BSEE ’59, and Intel’s cofounder Robert Noyce. Chua applied for and received the patent for Intel’s first commercial product, the i3101 64-bit RAM chip using the Schottky diode. He also co-authored a paper with Noyce about the impact of the Schottky diode on the science of integrated circuits; the technology outlined in the paper is still being used in the semiconductor industry today."
https://www.ohio.edu/news/2022/03/oh...ent-and-future

Getting this stuff is insanely competitive and comes down to inches.

[gopokes88]

I think we need to take that Panasonic money and jump into semiconductors. We have land, water and money. Let's get in front on this national imperative

Intel is pretty much tapped out by now, so this isn't going to happen at any sort of scale.

[Pete]

Getting this stuff is insanely competitive and comes down to inches.

This is why I keep saying that we need to have some sort of independent group provide the public with a study concerning why we are losing out and what we need to change.

Then, we can decide on a future course because what we have been doing is not working.


There is always a great opportunity to learn after a failure. I'm suggesting we seize that opportunity rather than just go along with the political spin and Chamber sunshine-pumping.

[gopokes88]

This is why I keep saying that we need to have some sort of independent group provide the public with a study concerning why we are losing out and what we need to change.

Then, we can decide on a future course because what we have been doing is not working.


There is always a great opportunity to learn after a failure. I'm suggesting we seize that opportunity rather than just go along with the political spin and Chamber sunshine-pumping.

I wouldn't be opposed to that at all, but it's not going to be as simple as "Oklahoma should increase education funding by 10%". It will have 50 different reasons, 47 of which the state govt can't do much about.

[Pete]

I wouldn't be opposed to that at all, but it's not going to be as simple as "Oklahoma should increase education funding by 10%". It will have 50 different reasons, 47 of which the state govt can't do much about.

I never said education was the primary issue.

The simple truth is that none of us know why we are not competitive. We need to find out and then make decisions accordingly.

[gopokes88]

I never said education was the primary issue.

The simple truth is that none of us know why we are not competitive. We need to find out and then make decisions accordingly.

Sometimes thing just don't work out and there isn't a "change" that can be made. Steady as she goes is boring, and usually the right decision. You can only maneuver a cruise ship so much.

[Pete]

Sometimes thing just don't work out and there isn't a "change" that can be made. Steady as she goes is boring, and usually the right decision. You can only maneuver a cruise ship so much.

No disrespect, but you have no idea about any of this.

Voters deserve to know the facts and have a qualified, unbiased analysis of what we need to change to improve our track record.

All we're getting now is the typical political spin and lots of uninformed opinions.

[gopokes88]

No disrespect, but you have no idea about any of this.

Voters deserve to know the facts and have a qualified, unbiased analysis of what we need to change to improve our track record.

All we're getting now is the typical political spin and lots of uninformed opinions.

No disrespect but half this country is obsessed with changing everything all the time, and its typically better to garden.

[Pete]

No disrespect but half this country is obsessed with changing everything all the time, and its typically better to garden.

I guess we'll just spend another decade failing without even bothering to find out why.

Sounds like a great plan.

I guess we never should have started MAPS after the big failure with United Airlines. Would have been better to keep languishing like we did in the '90s.

[TheTravellers]

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/st...7ba3a8b66.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/13/amer...-rankings.html (we're #38)

And incidentally, might as well mention this - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/14/thes...e-in-2022.html

[Pete]

As I've stated before, OKC has been charting its own course with a lot of success.

Missing out on big manufacturing opportunities has a much bigger impact on Tulsa and rural areas because they don't have a lot of momentum around economic development. Those areas also lack the massive economic engines of the State and Tinker that bless Central Oklahoma.

As much as I'd like to see the state become more competitive, if Oklahomans keep electing rednecks, grifters, and culture warriors then they'll continue to get exactly what they deserve.

[BG918]

It all starts with the Governor and Stitt has shown he can’t get it done and creates division, especially with the tribes. I know OKC doesn’t want to lose him as mayor but David Holt would be a good option that potentially could help with how state government is portrayed nationally

[Pete]

It all starts with the Governor and Stitt has shown he can’t get it done and creates division, especially with the tribes. I know OKC doesn’t want to lose him as mayor but David Holt would be a good option that potentially could help with how state government is portrayed nationally

A governor is term-limited to two 4-year terms.

Holt isn't running in the next election so we'll either get Stitt again or Joy Hoffmeister.

[mugofbeer]

No disrespect, but you have no idea about any of this.

Voters deserve to know the facts and have a qualified, unbiased analysis of what we need to change to improve our track record.

All we're getting now is the typical political spin and lots of uninformed opinions.

Off the top of my head and for starters how about :

1) better education system that teaches what businesses want to see in hires
1a) better teacher pay and a statewide MAPS-for-schools program for replacing old facilities and purchase of quality teaching tools.
1b) focus on high-quality teaching basics and get out of the business of trying to socially engineer children
2) money invested in less risky, Panasonic/Tesla type prospects
3) preparing large swaths of land with utilities and rail for immediate use by industrial prospects,
4) clear off unused or underused swaths of land (such as Crossroads mall) and aggressively recruit new, large-scale tenants,
5) eliminate the state corporate income tax and educate people that corporations simply pass this tax through as an expense to consumers. Why would any business locate to OK when they can simply go to Texas and increase their profit margin 6%?
6) lose the anti-big business mentality and accept that big businesses employ big numbers of people and pay big salaries,
7) get MUCH more aggressive at going out and actually visiting desirable businesses or trade groups to get the word out Oklahoma is being greatly overlooked as a desirable place to locate operations.
8) invest in a state highway 3 northwest-to-southeast non-stop corridor to attract trucking and vacationers to the state since there are few alternatives in that direction nationally.
9) recruit highly aggressive, highly successful, dynamic business people for our political leadership instead of (no offense meant to anyone in these fields) lawyers, small business owners and those with only oil & gas backgrounds.
10) continue and increase investing in pay-as-you-go self-improvement projects like MAPS that are proven winners and proven attractors of outside investment

[shartel_ave]

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/st...7ba3a8b66.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/13/amer...-rankings.html (we're #38)

And incidentally, might as well mention this - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/14/thes...e-in-2022.html

the first link, the tulsa world link is what I suggested about panasonic and I posted a link and my comment was removed

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/11/u...usinesses.html

[PhiAlpha]

Bleak. Worst I've felt about Tulsa and the state's prospects in a long time. I thought Tulsa was on the brink of something big happening for once, another strikeout. Not sure how long it is till I start seriously looking to move to another state. OKC at least has some consistent momentum.

To be fair, it isn't like this was going in downtown Tulsa or in Tulsa at all. It would've been in Pryor which would be like saying OKC struck out and languishing over something that decided not to build in Shawnee or somewhere between Purcell and Pauls Valley, between Guthrie and Stillwater or between El Reno and Weatherford. It definitely would've been great for Tulsa and the NE part of the state, but it's extremely dramatic to act like this is specifically some poor reflection of Tulsa or Tulsa's fault.

It is however, absolutely a poor reflection of where our state is right now. That would've been a perfect location between access to the port, cheap electricity, closer to Tesla, etc. No good logistical reason they should've chosen Kansas over NE OK

[PhiAlpha]

It still begs a bunch of questions that need answers: Why were we so late? Why did we bother if we knew we couldn't match their package? Why did we put together a package that wasn't competitive? What are we going to do differently to have a fighting chance of winning these competitions in the future?

This is my biggest question. What TF are they even doing down there if we aren't getting ahead of the game on stuff like this?

[PhiAlpha]

I don't think anyone here is naive enough to believe our personal politics don't get in the way, at least a little:















I decided to stop before going another page because my point is beyond proven.
You (Pete) made a great post (#144, I think) that is mostly encouraging and the mindset all of us need to have: WTF happened and what can we do to avoid or put ourselves in a better position for the next one? Dang, we missed these last two, but let's go for a third and try smarter, harder, etc. all around.
Some of you will no doubt come back to the political aspect as the comments above prove unequivocally. And while there is an element there that can't be ignored, we need to remember one important thing: these companies couldn't care less about politics as a whole. They'll grandstand a little here and there but remember that most of them will gladly put certain profile pics and colors on their social media accounts during certain days or months in some countries while not for others.
They play games and don't really care too much about Bible thumping rednecks as the comments above are laced with when reading between the lines. They care about bottom lines and handouts. KS is probably cheaper because there's less there than here and KS also doubled our offer.

What if it's as simple as that? If it is, then my questions in my original post need answering: what are the definitions and where do we draw the line for corporate handouts? Make no mistake, that's what won this at the end of the day and if I had to guess, Panasonic set themselves up to "win" long term while the politicians in KS are holding up victory signs.
I want good jobs here in OK as well. There probably isn't one person on this forum that doesn't.

Great post!

[mugofbeer]

Unfortunately, politics plays into corporate decisions more and more but keep in mind, Kansas has just as much religious-right influence as OK and will likely have abortion controls. Texas already has stringent controls and has not missed a business beat.

When it comes to distribution centers, manufacturing products, etc., high levels of education generally aren't necessary. As for available workforce and OK's low ranking, it comes from our low unemployment rate. But if a Panasonic or Tesla were to locate in OK, the workforce would easily be available, either from migration or from people leaving their McDonalds jobs and learning how to use a forklift, unload trailers or operate a robot - all of which even educated people need to be trained how to operate.

IMO, I believe it is the fact that a company will automatically think of Texas when looking to the mid part of the country and not even consider Oklahoma. OK simply must invest the funds to have a business development office to proactively go out and recruit possible employers and not wait around for employers to come to OK to inquire.

[BG918]

I like this quote “You can call it a failure and let it discourage you- Or you can call it experience and let it teach you.” Need to step back and find the next opportunity