Russia attacks Ukraine

[KHutch66]

I did not see any activity on this and figured that a thread would be made sooner or later.

[OKCRealtor]

Sad day. Pray for Ukraine. I don't know what the answer is here other than massive sanctions but I'm afraid Putin will need to be dealt with at some point. Outside of perhaps China it would seem the world is united at least on this. Get ready for $5/gallon gas OKC> We're going to feel it here, I especially feel bad for the lower/middle class. I don't know how they can keep up with how expensive everything is becoming.

Also, I don't know if this would be outside the scope of OKC talk but I'd love to see a perpetual thread on the financial markets. As if we needed another world crisis to deal with. Personally I'll have to hold some positions for months at best to rebound on this as I'm not selling at a loss. Inflation is about to get even more out of control with Oil now- wonder if the FED will alter course on interest rates as a result.

[MagzOK]

Sanctions obviously do not curb this guy. He has to be stopped militarily before it really gets out of control. He will take over inch by inch as long as the west allows him to until he's stopped.

[jn1780]

Sanctions obviously do not curb this guy. He has to be stopped militarily before it really gets out of control. He will take over inch by inch as long as the west allows him to until he's stopped.

He knows Europe needs Russia's gas. Kind of hoping this will be the catalyst to get countries looking at next generation nuclear power. Need more research and development on thorium-based nuclear power as this would be significantly safer than other types of nuclear power.

[jn1780]

Sanctions obviously do not curb this guy. He has to be stopped militarily before it really gets out of control. He will take over inch by inch as long as the west allows him to until he's stopped.

MAD is at play. The red line was never established at Ukraine. This was Russia's last chance to do anything significant. Their future demographic projections are terrible.

[MagzOK]

Very good point. That the Ukraine, all-the-while sitting on a NATO invitation for over a decade, never joined, so that red line was never moved eastward. I just fear it getting out of control to the point it's all out full scale war. China knows we have China closely monitoring the situation for a move on Taiwan should the US send military power to Ukraine. What a dicey and tense situation.

Europe is going to have to take some charge for their own security. I'm dumbfounded in looking at the NATO maps and seeing the contributions of member countries. US by far contributes the most at nearly 17%, followed by a Britain at a distant 11%. Than after that, France and Germany each at about 5%, followed by everyone else at around 1%.

[catcherinthewry]

That the Ukraine, all-the-while sitting on a NATO invitation for over a decade, never joined

It's just Ukraine and they have never had a NATO invitation.

[PoliSciGuy]

Very good point. That the Ukraine, all-the-while sitting on a NATO invitation for over a decade, never joined, so that red line was never moved eastward. I just fear it getting out of control to the point it's all out full scale war. China knows we have China closely monitoring the situation for a move on Taiwan should the US send military power to Ukraine. What a dicey and tense situation.

Europe is going to have to take some charge for their own security. I'm dumbfounded in looking at the NATO maps and seeing the contributions of member countries. US by far contributes the most at nearly 17%, followed by a Britain at a distant 11%. Than after that, France and Germany each at about 5%, followed by everyone else at around 1%.

Ukraine could never join NATO so long as the Donbas was in insurgency. One of the requirements of NATO membership is that you cannot have any border or territorial disputes. They wanted to, but were never able to meet the requirement.

Also, having all of Europe reliant on the US for defense and security is a feature, not a bug. And you're looking at the numbers wrong. There is no one, big pot that all NATO members contribute to but rather the expectation that every NATO member will spend 2% or more of their GDP on their military. Now most NATO members don't hit that and ideally that would be addressed, but just ending NATO serves no-ones purpose other than Russia.

[MagzOK]

^^
good info, thank you. The NATO website isn't clear then.

[Midtowner]

^^
good info, thank you. The NATO website isn't clear then.

I applaud you for trying to go to primary sources for info. As the prof's explanation demonstrates, I'd almost be concerned that you've been exposed to some Russian propaganda. Expect a lot of memes and anti-NATO propaganda to hit social media soon. Just know that without NATO, there's literally nothing stopping Russia from picking off European countries one by one.

And unpopular opinion to follow, Europe can't really function in any cohesive fashion without U.S. leadership of NATO. Without us, any determined power can run over the entirety of the mainland.

[BoulderSooner]

And unpopular opinion to follow, Europe can't really function in any cohesive fashion without U.S. leadership of NATO. Without us, any determined power can run over the entirety of the mainland.

this is very accurate

[citywokchinesefood]

this is very accurate

The EU collectively have a larger army, larger navy, and comparable air power to Russia. The EU collectively has an economy that is exponentially larger than Russia. The EU also has Nuclear weapons just like Russia. An attack on one EU country would be responded to in kind by all EU countries. The US is a much needed ally, but it is silly to try and say that the EU is defenseless. Not to mention other nation states like Japan, Korea, The United Kingdom. and Canada would likely back the EU even if the United States refused to be involved.

[Martin]

i removed a post (and a response to it) that strayed too far into politics territory.

just a reminder that this isn't the politics section. if you want to discuss the ukraine situation in general, effects of sanctions, or other objective details, please do so. if you want to draw the typical lines in the sand on political personalities and ideologies, this isn't the place.

[Swake]

Very good point. That the Ukraine, all-the-while sitting on a NATO invitation for over a decade, never joined, so that red line was never moved eastward. I just fear it getting out of control to the point it's all out full scale war. China knows we have China closely monitoring the situation for a move on Taiwan should the US send military power to Ukraine. What a dicey and tense situation.

Europe is going to have to take some charge for their own security. I'm dumbfounded in looking at the NATO maps and seeing the contributions of member countries. US by far contributes the most at nearly 17%, followed by a Britain at a distant 11%. Than after that, France and Germany each at about 5%, followed by everyone else at around 1%.

Where are you getting those numbers, what do they mean?

[MagzOK]

Where are you getting those numbers, what do they mean?

https://www.nato.int/nato-on-the-map...1440904&zoom=0

On the link above, click on the left where it says 'NATO members' and then click on any of the countries. It will bring up a writeup and in the description of the country it posts the "cost share" percentage to NATO in "direct contributions" it says.

[king183]

And unpopular opinion to follow, Europe can't really function in any cohesive fashion without U.S. leadership of NATO. Without us, any determined power can run over the entirety of the mainland.

I don't really think that's an unpopular opinion as much as it is acknowledging the reality of the current situation

[Ryan]

Listen. Trump said he trusts the guy. And that getting along good with Russia is a good thing. Trump said it. From gods lips to our ears.