Sports Betting in OK

[PhiAlpha]

There was a recent court ruling that Fantasy Football is not gambling and that's when all these sites got set up and how millions now funnel their league through them. It also moved from something only real diehard football fans did to seemingly everyone everywhere having a team or 10.

Now, they have all your data and habits and can target you and others specifically with AI that will draw out your money.

I've seen a huge shift among my friends from people who used to pull for a specific team to now only caring about 'their' team. And that's 100% the mindset of a gambler, not a sports fan. All these sites have caused this shift and most people don't even realize it.

The draft kings and fan duel style weekly fantasy football (where you pick a new team every week and play in huge leagues) has recently become more popular but people my age and almost literally every guy I know 5-10 years younger and older than me have been playing standard fantasy football with 2-5 teams since high school/college. It might be growing in popularity but it’s been fairly popular and available online for 20+ years with apps starting up as soon as the App Store became available on the iPhone 3G. Several of us, me included, care more about our fantasy football team than any one professional team primarily because OK doesn’t have one and we’re sick of watching the Cowboys suck or just cheering for whatever team Baker Mayfield plays for. We all just enjoy playing in leagues with our friends and talking crap to each other every Sunday more than we care about any one team anymore. Sure, you win a little money if you win the league or in some of them, get a payout if you have the highest score during a week…but it isn’t nearly enough money to be the driving force behind all the time we spend messing with it.

All of that to say, I think you’re making some major generalizations based on your experience and your friend group (or maybe we just have different definitions of “fantasy football”). I don’t necessarily love dedicated online betting platforms (in an ideal world, I’d rather it be restricted to sports books in casinos that the state profits from and aren’t as easily accessed) but standard fantasy football and sports betting are not really the same thing.

[BoulderSooner]

The draft kings and fan duel style weekly fantasy football (where you pick a new team every week and play in huge leagues) has recently become more popular but people my age and almost literally every guy I know 5-10 years younger and older than me have been playing standard fantasy football with 2-5 teams since high school/college. It might be growing in popularity but it’s been fairly popular and available online for 20+ years with apps starting up as soon as the App Store became available on the iPhone 3G. Several of us, me included, care more about our fantasy football team than any one professional team primarily because OK doesn’t have one and we’re sick of watching the Cowboys suck or just cheering for whatever team Baker Mayfield plays for. We all just enjoy playing in leagues with our friends and talking crap to each other every Sunday more than we care about any one team anymore. Sure, you win a little money if you win the league or in some of them, get a payout if you have the highest score during a week…but it isn’t nearly enough money to be the driving force behind all the time we spend messing with it.

All of that to say, I think you’re making some major generalizations based on your experience and your friend group (or maybe we just have different definitions of “fantasy football”). I don’t necessarily love dedicated online betting platforms (in an ideal world, I’d rather it be restricted to sports books in casinos that the state profits from and aren’t as easily accessed) but standard fantasy football and sports betting are not really the same thing.

just to put a point on this .. ESPN online fantasy football started in 1996 CBSsports FF in 1997 ..

[Pete]

fantasy football and sports betting are not really the same thing.

Yet, that's exactly how all these online sports betting sites started and now many people are just migrating to more of the betting they offer.

As I said before, I believe very strongly that fantasy football in its current, crazy, multiple-teams, online form is absolutely a gateway into placing more bets on the same sites.


I will also say I know a ton of people in the 50s and 60s who cared deeply about one or more pro teams and now only care about their fantasy team. And it has nothing to do with not having a local team or the Cowboys sucking, because that has long been the case.

[CatholicSooner]

As I said before, I believe very strongly that fantasy football in its current, crazy, multiple-teams, online form is absolutely a gateway into placing more bets on the same sites.


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Maybe. I don't have enough info to make that conclusion. All I know is with my buddies I don't think playing FF has resulted in anyone dabbling in sports betting

[PhiAlpha]

I guess I am fine with sports betting but would prefer to not see Advertisements on it. Same goes for alcohol and prescription drugs.

Definitely agree on both.

[PhiAlpha]

Yet, that's exactly how all these online sports betting sites started and now many people are just migrating to more of the betting they offer.

As I said before, I believe very strongly that fantasy football in its current, crazy, multiple-teams, online form is absolutely a gateway into placing more bets on the same sites.


I will also say I know a ton of people in the 50s and 60s who cared deeply about one or more pro teams and now only care about their fantasy team. And it has nothing to do with not having a local team or the Cowboys sucking, because that has long been the case.

Which sites? I don’t know anyone using anything other than the ESPN, yahoo, NFL and CBS fantasy apps for their fantasy leagues. Those sites do not offer any other types of sports betting outside of user created pools for fantasy leagues, tournament brackets, etc. I can’t think of anyone using sites DraftKings or Fan Duel to set up a fantasy league. Maybe a bunch of people are doing that but it certainly doesn’t seem that widespread.

Maybe they just were waiting for something more entertaining than watching the cowboys suck and since we don’t have our own team…it was easier to stop caring about a team they have no regional attachment to? Know anyone who’s given up watching the Thunder and fully invested in fantasy basketball?

My friends that do play fantasy football and bet on sports were into betting on sports in Vegas long before draftkings or fan duel blew up. While their is probably a link, I highly doubt friends playing in fantasy leagues is going to lead to a massive sports betting epidemic but maybe I’m not spending time with the people who are drowning themselves in gambling debt.

In the meantime, I’ll continue getting together with friends for fantasy drafts and losing $100-$300 a year because I still suck at managing a team lol.

[aDark]

Which sites? I donÂ’t know anyone using anything other than the ESPN, yahoo, NFL and CBS fantasy apps for their fantasy leagues. Those sites do not offer any other types of sports betting outside of user created pools for fantasy leagues, tournament brackets, etc. I canÂ’t think of anyone using sites DraftKings or Fan Duel to set up a fantasy league. Maybe a bunch of people are doing that but it certainly doesnÂ’t seem that widespread.

Maybe they just were waiting for something more entertaining than watching the cowboys suck and since we donÂ’t have our own teamÂ…it was easier to stop caring about a team they have no regional attachment to? Know anyone whoÂ’s given up watching the Thunder and fully invested in fantasy basketball?

My friends that do play fantasy football and bet on sports were into betting on sports in Vegas long before draftkings or fan duel blew up. While their is probably a link, I highly doubt friends playing in fantasy leagues is going to lead to a massive sports betting epidemic but maybe IÂ’m not spending time with the people who are drowning themselves in gambling debt.

In the meantime, IÂ’ll continue getting together with friends for fantasy drafts and losing $100-$300 a year because I still suck at managing a team lol.

Well said. Fantasy Football diehards do not suddenly turn into gambling addicts thanks to the introduction of single-play "fantasy" apps.

Pete I would agree with you that DraftKings/FanDuel canlure people and elicit addictive actions from those who are pre-disposed to gamble. But I think it's important to stop short of suggesting traditional fantasy football begets gambling. As pointed out by you in this thread the gambling that takes place on DraftKings/FanDuel is essentially parlays and prop bets. That's not long-form fantasy and it's not taking place in the same venues, amongst friends.

It's almost like suggesting that people who get together to play in a monthly poker game with buddies are so strongly impacted by their home game poker experience that they would seek out an online poker website to bet large sums or be driven to Tribal casinos upon seeing a commercial advertising their poker rooms. We aren't blaming the local monthly $20 buy-in poker games amongst friends forthe addicts who can't drag themselves out of Riverwind.

[Pete]

^

Traditional fantasy football IS gambling.

Never said that all people who play it automatically sign up for other forms of sports gambling, but clearly many do.


It seems that people who play a lot of fantasy football are invested in the idea they are not gamblers. Many think they have some sort of skill so why wouldn't that thinking translate into other forms of sports betting?

[BoulderSooner]

^

Traditional fantasy football IS gambling.

Never said that all people who play it automatically sign up for other forms of sports gambling, but clearly many do.


It would seem that people who play a lot of fantasy football are invested in the idea they are not gamblers.

not to get into semantics too much .. but traditional FF does NOT fit the definition of gambling (legally or otherwise)

[Pete]

not to get into semantics too much .. but traditional FF does NOT fit the definition of gambling (legally or otherwise)

That is the definition of using semantics because anyone with common sense knows FF is gambling.

And this is exactly why I think there has been this almost seamless transition into huge dollars being pumped into these sports betting sites.

[CatholicSooner]

^

Traditional fantasy football IS gambling.

Never said that all people who play it automatically sign up for other forms of sports gambling, but clearly many do.


It seems that people who play a lot of fantasy football are invested in the idea they are not gamblers. Many think they have some sort of skill so why wouldn't that thinking translate into other forms of sports betting?

Getting in the car each day is a gamble too

[CatholicSooner]

That is the definition of using semantics because anyone with common sense knows FF is gambling.

And this is exactly why I think there has been this almost seamless transition into huge dollars being pumped into these sports betting sites.

lol I completely disagree. Have you played fantasy football?

[jedicurt]

not to get into semantics too much .. but traditional FF does NOT fit the definition of gambling (legally or otherwise)

each player in a league puts money into a pot, to pay out to a winner.... ummm that's gambling.

this argument goes all the way back to the 1980's and Rotisserie Baseball. any paid league is gambling, free leagues are not. same way as you can play poker with friends for free and that is fine, but in some states it's still illegal to have a cash game amongst friends because it's still gambling.

[CatholicSooner]

each player in a league puts money into a pot, to pay out to a winner.... ummm that's gambling.

this argument goes all the way back to the 1980's and Rotisserie Baseball. any paid league is gambling, free leagues are not. same way as you can play poker with friends for free and that is fine, but in some states it's still illegal to have a cash game amongst friends because it's still gambling.

lol ok

[BoulderSooner]

each player in a league puts money into a pot, to pay out to a winner.... ummm that's gambling.

this argument goes all the way back to the 1980's and Rotisserie Baseball. any paid league is gambling, free leagues are not. same way as you can play poker with friends for free and that is fine, but in some states it's still illegal to have a cash game amongst friends because it's still gambling.

is playing in a golf tournament with an entry fee gambling??

and FYI neither are gambling according to every state and the federal gov

[PhiAlpha]

That is the definition of using semantics because anyone with common sense knows FF is gambling.

And this is exactly why I think there has been this almost seamless transition into huge dollars being pumped into these sports betting sites.

is it gambling if you play in a league without a buy in? In at least one of those every year too utilizing the same services.

[Pete]

is playing in a golf tournament with an entry fee gambling??

and FYI neither are gambling according to every state and the federal gov

If the golf tournament is paying out the pot of the entry fees, then of course it is.


As I keep saying, those deep into fantasy sports have already convinced themselves it is not gambling against all common sense. So is daily fantasy gambling? The law says no. But in reality, it's no different than betting on the games directly -- the people that do that are convinced they are using 'skill'. People who play poker have some degree of skill. You could make that argument for every table game and basically everything in a casino.

[BoulderSooner]

If the golf tournament is paying out the pot of the entry fees, then of course it is.

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it absolutely is not ..

[Pete]

it absolutely is not ..

And that way of thinking is exactly why there is an easy transition into other types of sports betting, which is clearly what is happening more and more.

[BoulderSooner]

And that way of thinking is exactly why there is an easy transition into other types of sports betting, which is clearly what is happening more and more.

a contest of skill and gambling are not the same thing at all ..

[Pete]

a contest of skill and gambling are not the same thing at all ..

Poker, blackjack... There is some degree of skill involved in almost every form of gambling.

[BoulderSooner]

Poker, blackjack... There is some degree of skill involved in almost every form of gambling.

some degree of skill and a sport like GOLF where it is almost entirely skill being the difference ..

the government view FF as being mostly skill ... it views poker and blackjack having majority luck ... thus it view them as gambling

[CatholicSooner]

If the golf tournament is paying out the pot of the entry fees, then of course it is.


As I keep saying, those deep into fantasy sports have already convinced themselves it is not gambling against all common sense. So is daily fantasy gambling? The law says no. But in reality, it's no different than betting on the games directly -- the people that do that are convinced they are using 'skill'. People who play poker have some degree of skill. You could make that argument for every table game and basically everything in a casino.

dude man...you are in the minority here. Not only are you making comical examples, you are making claims that one must be in denial and "deep" into FF (lol) if you think it isn't gambling

[Pete]

Everyone understands there was a dubious government ruling about fantasy sports.

And also everyone understands there is no more skill in picking a fantasy team than any other type of sports betting.


Look, do what you want. But all these protests from fantasy players just underscore the central point: the same people who justify fantasy as not gambling will use the legality of other forms of sports betting to dive into that, too.

[aDark]

^

Traditional fantasy football IS gambling.

Never said that all people who play it automatically sign up for other forms of sports gambling, but clearly many do.

It seems that people who play a lot of fantasy football are invested in the idea they are not gamblers. Many think they have some sort of skill so why wouldn't that thinking translate into other forms of sports betting?

I don't love aligning myself with Catholic Sooner on any topic really

But seriously, Pete, have you actually played a season of fantasy football before? I'm wondering if you're missing out on some basic understanding of how it works. The Courts which have ruled that fantasy is not gambling came to that conclusion after some heavy analysis. It makes sense to me, but that's probably because I play traditional fantasy football and understand why/how it's so different from the likes of FanDuel and DraftKings.

So, have you played?