Primrose School

[fortpatches]

looks like they want to be viewed from the neighborhood more than from the road. Their sign is also on the neighborhood side instead of the street-side.

[MagzOK]

looks like they want to be viewed from the neighborhood more than from the road. Their sign is also on the neighborhood side instead of the street-side.

It looks to me the sign is along 13th Street. And I'm not sure what you mean being viewed by the neighborhood. The front door is not facing the neighborhood. ?

[Oski]

Ouch, I saw Midtown Renaissance and was hoping that we would get nice thing, another missed opportunity for a prime location. This is how a kindergarten for low income families in a pretty poor county looks like. What has happened to nowadays architectural taste?

[GoGators]

looks like they want to be viewed from the neighborhood more than from the road. Their sign is also on the neighborhood side instead of the street-side.

The sign is on 13th street. The same street the building should be addressing. I wasn't expecting this development to be some poster child for great urban design, but to see this building completely turn its ack to the street is surprising. That's the bare minimum for urban design. Hopefully design review can step in on this. I think this will be a great amenity to add to the core but the site layout is terrible.

[BoulderSooner]

looks like they want to be viewed from the neighborhood more than from the road. Their sign is also on the neighborhood side instead of the street-side.

they don't really "want" or need to be viewed from anywhere .. they will be full with a wait list the second they start taking reservations ..

[Oski]

^^^
Agree. The architect who came up with this layout wasn't serious about their practice, and, I'd say, didn't care about improving the beauty of this neighborhood, this city at all. I don't even want to mention the developer(s).

[MagzOK]

Maybe it's the most efficient use of space for what they're trying to fit into that sort of smashed rectangular lot. IDK, the way the building faces I guess isn't a big deal to me.

[Oski]

Maybe it's the most efficient use of space for what they're trying to fit into that sort of smashed rectangular lot. IDK, the way the building faces I guess isn't a big deal to me.

It was designed by one of the best architects in that country, a serious guy with a high standard.

[fortpatches]

With houses and apartments to the East and lots of residential to the North East, I'd say it's more residential than a 6-lane road, a gas station, a Family Planning org, and a Community sentencing org to the West.

The parking lot almost necessarily needs to be in its current location. Your (drive) entrance would either be from Classen Northbound (since Classen has a curbed median there) or off 13th street, which having 5 lanes immediately next to Classen would make it nearly impossible to turn across 3 lanes into the entrance, especially when people leaving the school after dropoff would likely be heading West towards the larger road. Unless you head Westbound on 13th street. So, move the parking lot East along 13th to the point 13th is only 4 lanes of traffic. Here, someone Eastbound would only have to cross over 2 lanes vs 3.

Also, if there is a lot of traffic for dropoff, 13th street would be better to be backed up waiting to get into the parking lot than Classen.

If you consider that the playgrounds are attached to the rooms (direct access to the playground from the classroom), it makes it much more difficult to orient the building.

Now if you place the school along and facing Classen, the parking, thus pickup and dropoff, would require walking around the playgrounds along two streets to get to the front of the building.

Facing South would put the front doors of the school against 13th street in order to get the playgrounds connected directly to the classrooms behind the school against the residential area. If parking is kept where it is right now, it would require walking with your kids along the sidewalk of 13 st. By mirroring the building, you could fit the littles' playgrounds against the corner of Classen and 13th - which I think would be a fairly bad idea, otherwise, your school is still separated from the parking lot by a, albeit small, playground.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm curious how some of the posters who do not like this placement would lay out the campus? How the parking, family entrance and secure playground would flow?

The playground faces Classen. I think the urban core should want to see the playing little children.

[fortpatches]

Of course they want to be viewed from a specific direction. All these posters hating on the layout are complaining because they won't be able to view it from a particular direction. It is clearly a consideration. Putting the sign in that location helps to bias people to approach the school from Westbound 13th street, which would minimize traffic and potential wrecks. I'm sure you're special and the exception, but most people approach an establishment from the location of the sign in most situations. (Note, I said most - obviously I do not mean "all")

[GoGators]

With houses and apartments to the East and lots of residential to the North East, I'd say it's more residential than a 6-lane road, a gas station, a Family Planning org, and a Community sentencing org to the West.

The parking lot almost necessarily needs to be in its current location. Your (drive) entrance would either be from Classen Northbound (since Classen has a curbed median there) or off 13th street, which having 5 lanes immediately next to Classen would make it nearly impossible to turn across 3 lanes into the entrance, especially when people leaving the school after dropoff would likely be heading West towards the larger road. Unless you head Westbound on 13th street. So, move the parking lot East along 13th to the point 13th is only 4 lanes of traffic. Here, someone Eastbound would only have to cross over 2 lanes vs 3.

Also, if there is a lot of traffic for dropoff, 13th street would be better to be backed up waiting to get into the parking lot than Classen.

If you consider that the playgrounds are attached to the rooms (direct access to the playground from the classroom), it makes it much more difficult to orient the building.

Now if you place the school along and facing Classen, the parking, thus pickup and dropoff, would require walking around the playgrounds along two streets to get to the front of the building.

Facing South would put the front doors of the school against 13th street in order to get the playgrounds connected directly to the classrooms behind the school against the residential area. If parking is kept where it is right now, it would require walking with your kids along the sidewalk of 13 st. By mirroring the building, you could fit the littles' playgrounds against the corner of Classen and 13th - which I think would be a fairly bad idea, otherwise, your school is still separated from the parking lot by a, albeit small, playground.

That is exactly how the building should be orientated.

[Sooner.Arch]

It's sometimes sad when I see a new project proposed in okc because I look and think "no one actually would allow this to get built". Good architecture doesn't mean it has to cost a ton of money. This is lazy architecture. This is a school, a place where imagination should run free and instead it looks like a suburban jail. Why not something funky and loud? Or at least something minimal and modern? Why this? Hahaha

[MagzOK]

That is exactly how the building should be orientated.

So you're saying the front doors at the entrance of the place should be located right off of 13th street, right up next to the sidewalk, where little kids break free from their parents and run into the street at rush hour?

[BoulderSooner]

O but most people approach an establishment from the location of the sign in most situations. (Note, I said most - obviously I do not mean "all")

most people approach an establishment from the direction they are coming from .. period ... not the sign ..

[David]

It's sometimes sad when I see a new project proposed in okc because I look and think "no one actually would allow this to get built". Good architecture doesn't mean it has to cost a ton of money. This is lazy architecture. This is a school, a place where imagination should run free and instead it looks like a suburban jail. Why not something funky and loud? Or at least something minimal and modern? Why this? Hahaha

Expecting Primrose to go with a design like that is nonsensical. They are a large company with normal looking buildings all over the country, they aren't going to depart from that design standard.

And JFC the jail comparison again, please learn another analogy.

[GoGators]

So you're saying the front doors at the entrance of the place should be located right off of 13th street, right up next to the sidewalk, where little kids break free from their parents and run into the street at rush hour?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. This notion of children walking on a sidewalk is somehow dangerous is strange. This is in the urban core. Many parents would probably like the ability to walk their small children to this facility from their home using multiple street adjacent sidewalks. I am much more concerned about my child getting run over in a parking lot than on a sidewalk.

[fortpatches]

There is nothing wrong with littles walking on the sidewalk. But it would be asinine to suggest that walking on a sidewalk near a large intersection is at least equally as safe as walking through a school parking lot. If the choice is between providing a safer environment for littles or making randoms on the internet happy with which way a building faces - it is quite clear which should be prioritized.

Not to mention that the proposed design places handicap parking adjacent to the entrance which would be a much shorter distance and easier path for a disabled person to either attend school or to take their child to the building.

My main complaint about the design is that the fence is a decorative fence. I would have something more than decoration for the fence line adjacent to Classen in that curve.

[TheTravellers]

Surprising how few children are killed in large cities all over the world because they're on sidewalks next to busy streets. You'd think we'd hear more about it if kids in NYC and Chicago were killed/injured/abducted all the time because they were on a busy-street sidewalk.

[fortpatches]

I'm sure you realize that is not what I said or what I implied - Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?

[GoGators]

There is nothing wrong with littles walking on the sidewalk. But it would be asinine to suggest that walking on a sidewalk near a large intersection is at least equally as safe as walking through a school parking lot. If the choice is between providing a safer environment for littles or making randoms on the internet happy with which way a building faces - it is quite clear which should be prioritized.

Not to mention that the proposed design places handicap parking adjacent to the entrance which would be a much shorter distance and easier path for a disabled person to either attend school or to take their child to the building.

My main complaint about the design is that the fence is a decorative fence. I would have something more than decoration for the fence line adjacent to Classen in that curve.

Since the number of moving cars on a sidewalk is zero and the number of moving cars in a parking lot is considerably more than zero I would have to disagree with your statement.

[TheTravellers]

I'm sure you realize that is not what I said or what I implied - Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?

Just saying that kids walk on sidewalks along busy streets in cities all over the world without having bad things happen to them, contrary to what some posts above seem to be saying. Your post had good points to make, not sure I agree with them, but thanks for making well-thought-out posts.

[Lazio85]

Here’s what we look for in a potential site:

Primrose School of Brookhaven is basically what is proposed here in Midtown OKC.

Size: 8,000 to 15,000 sq. ft.

Type of space: First floor above grade or some second-floor space

Requirements: Direct access to a minimum of:

5,000 sq. ft. of flat outdoor space for secured playground area
Building or monument signage desirable
Adequate staff parking and nearby drop-off and pick-up zone
Location: Near large office complex, university, hospital employment or middle- to upper-income residential

Children: 1,500 within a two-mile radius, ages 0-4

https://franchise.primroseschools.co...-requirements/

[MagzOK]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. This notion of children walking on a sidewalk is somehow dangerous is strange. This is in the urban core. Many parents would probably like the ability to walk their small children to this facility from their home using multiple street adjacent sidewalks. I am much more concerned about my child getting run over in a parking lot than on a sidewalk.

I'm pretty sure the school has thought this through and thus the reason they chose the layout of the lot. As a parent, I would rather the entrance be as far from the road and as close to the parking lot as possible -- not only for safety, but to also minimize the effects from weather for parents and their kids walking between their vehicles and the door. This is especially because there's no drive through breezeway drop-off point. I imagine most parents in a focus group would be of this opinion and not caring how a building looks from the street as a result of being sideways. If you google search some photos of this school, some locations have a large circle drive. I would imagine if the lot was big enough they would have tried to do the same, then you'd have the building facing front. But this lot along the street is a weird rectangle and is more wide than deep. Anyway....

[GoGators]

I'm pretty sure the school has thought this through and thus the reason they chose the layout of the lot. As a parent, I would rather the entrance be as far from the road and as close to the parking lot as possible -- not only for safety, but to also minimize the effects from weather for parents and their kids walking between their vehicles and the door. This is especially because there's no drive through breezeway drop-off point. I imagine most parents in a focus group would be of this opinion and not caring how a building looks from the street as a result of being sideways. If you google search some photos of this school, some locations have a large circle drive. I would imagine if the lot was big enough they would have tried to do the same, then you'd have the building facing front. But this lot along the street is a weird rectangle and is more wide than deep. Anyway....

Here is a good example of how this lot should be developed. Somehow Primrose was ok with this and didn't require the building to have an entrance off of the street or think the kids were in imminent danger.

I'm sure the focus group that doesn't want to take more than 5 steps out of their car already live in the suburbs and would not utilize this location anyway. As someone with an 8 month old that lives walking distance from this location, I would like urban core locations to cater to more than just people in cars. .It has nothing to do with how the building looks, it is about how people access and interact with the building. It is also about how how the building interacts and enhances the neighborhood. That is the entire point of urban design. This layout is perfectly fine for Edmond but not for this location.