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Thread: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

  1. #26

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Low unemployment is multi-faceted. Championing the statistic is grandstanding.

    https://www.investopedia.com/insight...-unemployment/

    KEY TAKEAWAYS
    Low unemployment is usually regarded as a positive sign for the economy.
    A very low a rate of unemployment, however, can have negative consequences, such as inflation and reduced productivity.
    When the labor market reaches a point where each additional job added does not create enough productivity to cover its cost, then an output gap, or slack, happens.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshber...h=4c3633763e99

  2. #27

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Better transportation (except be water), more workers, better tech school training infrastructure, closer to larger markets, better air connections, closer to two major universities, generally lower costs of real estate, more progressive and dynamic leadership. Those are a few reasons.
    Well in that case why didnít they submit a bid? Tulsa had a site, submitted and marketed it and made it as a finalist. Canoo was a similar effort. NE OK is where the state is concentrating its EV efforts

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
    Well in that case why didnít they submit a bid? Tulsa had a site, submitted and marketed it and made it as a finalist. Canoo was a similar effort. NE OK is where the state is concentrating its EV efforts
    I believe it was a site issue ... contiguous land. And Stitt pushes Tulsa very hard.

  4. Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Oklahoma competes for manufacturing jobs and does a pretty good job of it. Some of the job mentioned here were not a fit for Oklahoma and we were never a candidate. Companies choose locations for various reasons, quite often it is logistics. We are gaining aviation jobs which are manufacturing related. As for the GM plant, there are more workers there than when GM operated it and the workers are paid twice the salary as what GM was paying. Only 5 of the 14 giant hangers are completes on 48 of the recently acquired BNSF land. This is over a half a billion dollar expansion and will bring 2500 high paying jobs. Right now we are working with the Secretary of the Air Force to get Tinker Ready for the 2 billion expansion to come in 2023. 200 acres east of the base have been acquired and Douglas will be closed. The new top secret aircraft will be based at Tinker and another 3500 very high paying jobs will be added for this operation.

    We recently lost SAAB Aerospace to Indianapolis. Why? Because we don't have the workforce. That is a huge problem for us and there are many efforts under way to try to fix that. Saab wanted to build their facility next to the airport at Lariat Landing. They did all the research as did we. The workforce is not there.

    OKC is pretty competitive with incentives as is the OK Department of Commerce. The two work together to be competitive. There are currently 70 economic development projects in the works that may or may not come to be.

    Another issue is the availability of industrial land. 50 acres, no problem. 200 acres is a unicorn. This is why the 600 acres owned by the trust on south I-240 has been locked up for future economic development projects. We now have this in our portfolio.

  5. Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Tulsa was never actually in the running for Tesla. We worked on that as well. Tesla used Tulsa to get more incentives from Austin. The always intended to go to Austin. Companies use other cities for leverage all the time.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Losing SAAB was a bummer.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryOKC6 View Post
    Oklahoma competes for manufacturing jobs and does a pretty good job of it. Some of the job mentioned here were not a fit for Oklahoma and we were never a candidate. Companies choose locations for various reasons, quite often it is logistics. We are gaining aviation jobs which are manufacturing related. As for the GM plant, there are more workers there than when GM operated it and the workers are paid twice the salary as what GM was paying. Only 5 of the 14 giant hangers are completes on 48 of the recently acquired BNSF land. This is over a half a billion dollar expansion and will bring 2500 high paying jobs. Right now we are working with the Secretary of the Air Force to get Tinker Ready for the 2 billion expansion to come in 2023. 200 acres east of the base have been acquired and Douglas will be closed. The new top secret aircraft will be based at Tinker and another 3500 very high paying jobs will be added for this operation.

    We recently lost SAAB Aerospace to Indianapolis. Why? Because we don't have the workforce. That is a huge problem for us and there are many efforts under way to try to fix that. Saab wanted to build their facility next to the airport at Lariat Landing. They did all the research as did we. The workforce is not there.

    OKC is pretty competitive with incentives as is the OK Department of Commerce. The two work together to be competitive. There are currently 70 economic development projects in the works that may or may not come to be.

    Another issue is the availability of industrial land. 50 acres, no problem. 200 acres is a unicorn. This is why the 600 acres owned by the trust on south I-240 has been locked up for future economic development projects. We now have this in our portfolio.
    Thanks for the perspective and info.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    RE: New Ford EV plants

    Tennessee and Kentucky have a pretty substantial history with the auto industry and other heavy industry, both foreign and domestically owned. They both have plenty of respected institutions of higher learning, and research facilities. Transportation infrastructure in both states is really well developed. Also, they are both somewhat adjacent to the industrial North, while having remarkably low utility and labor costs and a pro-business political climate. Most of these conditions can be at least partly attributed to simple geography and how long they've been developing. Anyway, The following article contains a lot of stuff regarding Michigan rehashed several times, but it also gives some insight into Ford's process and what they were looking for. Of particular note is that they never even offered an opportunity to Michigan, their corporate home state.

    https://www.mlive.com/public-interes...tmer-says.html

  9. #34

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryOKC6 View Post
    Oklahoma competes for manufacturing jobs and does a pretty good job of it. Some of the job mentioned here were not a fit for Oklahoma and we were never a candidate. Companies choose locations for various reasons, quite often it is logistics. We are gaining aviation jobs which are manufacturing related. As for the GM plant, there are more workers there than when GM operated it and the workers are paid twice the salary as what GM was paying. Only 5 of the 14 giant hangers are completes on 48 of the recently acquired BNSF land. This is over a half a billion dollar expansion and will bring 2500 high paying jobs. Right now we are working with the Secretary of the Air Force to get Tinker Ready for the 2 billion expansion to come in 2023. 200 acres east of the base have been acquired and Douglas will be closed. The new top secret aircraft will be based at Tinker and another 3500 very high paying jobs will be added for this operation.

    We recently lost SAAB Aerospace to Indianapolis. Why? Because we don't have the workforce. That is a huge problem for us and there are many efforts under way to try to fix that. Saab wanted to build their facility next to the airport at Lariat Landing. They did all the research as did we. The workforce is not there.

    OKC is pretty competitive with incentives as is the OK Department of Commerce. The two work together to be competitive. There are currently 70 economic development projects in the works that may or may not come to be.

    Another issue is the availability of industrial land. 50 acres, no problem. 200 acres is a unicorn. This is why the 600 acres owned by the trust on south I-240 has been locked up for future economic development projects. We now have this in our portfolio.
    I to want to thank you for your insight, however, you raise an issue that has been known for decades. Oklahoma has an inadequately educated workforce. For example, Tinker has often stated they need more engineers, you say we didn't have the workers for SAAB. So what is the State doing to alleviate or improve in this area. For the state to continue to experience a workforce (talent) gap that continues to cost good jobs is not defendable to me. As I mentioned in the beginning the Tinker jobs are substantial and welcome, BUT where is private industry in a State that loathes big government? Oklahoma touts its low cost of living, low energy cost, abundant land, abundant energy resources and for the most part lower labor cost when compared to other places. My main point is that the State of Oklahoma appears from my perspective to spend alot of time and effort on issues and agendas that don't support improvement of the lives of Oklahomans.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    I think Oklahoma City is the bad weather capital of Oklahoma and possibly the nation. The October ice storm from last year went over the top for unusually bad weather. People had electricity out for up to a week or two. I can't imagine how that was like. I've live in Oklahoma all my life and never had to do without electricity for any longer than from evening to the next afternoon on two occasions, both due to a F-3 tornado. I wonder how much of a role Oklahoma City's bad weather plays in discouraging business and industry from coming? I don't know, but judging by how Oklahoma City has added on to its population by around 30% since 2000, it's doesn't appear to be scaring away very many new people.

    Weatherman Mike Morgan doesn't help matters my saying in a promo, "It's always severe weather season in Oklahoma."

  11. #36

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    I think Oklahoma City is the bad weather capital of Oklahoma and possibly the nation. The October ice storm from last year went over the top for unusually bad weather. People had electricity out for up to a week or two. I can't imagine how that was like. I've live in Oklahoma all my life and never had to do without electricity for any longer than from evening to the next afternoon on two occasions, both due to a F-3 tornado. I wonder how much of a role Oklahoma City's bad weather plays in discouraging business and industry from coming? I don't know, but judging by how Oklahoma City has added on to its population by around 30% since 2000, it's doesn't appear to be scaring away very many new people.
    The Tornado Alley effect has moved to the Southeastern part of the country a dozen years ago. Maybe due to climate change ? Texas had a way worse effect by the winter storm than we did, and they still grow. I think with the population increase we see change definitely occurring. I was in Seattle for a week and just flew back to OKC yesterday. The woman sitting on our row had just moved to OKC, her reason being the High prices and high population in the Pacific Northwest was/is overwhelming. She was able to buy a home here.
    And we experienced high prices on our trip. Gas in Seattle $4.00 +, couldn't eat lunch for less than $20 unless you went to the cheapest Fast Food, which was still $15. Glad to be back home.

  12. #37

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I believe it was a site issue ... contiguous land. And Stitt pushes Tulsa very hard.
    Maybe, NE OK has the Cherokee and Mid-America industrial parks that have large industrial sites near interstate, rail and river barge transport - the only part of Oklahoma that can offer that. You also canít discount the fact that there is automotive manufacturing already happening in Tulsa at the Navistar bus plant that employs 1600 people. That plant, and in anticipation of future EV manufacturing in the area, are why Lyseum NA is going to build a new auto parts plant at the Port of Catoosa.

    https://tulsaworld.com/business/loca...me-top-story-1

  13. #38

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
    It was the Tulsa chamber and city leaders that led the charge to become a finalist for the Tesla factory, beating out Nashville. The state then assisted with the incentive package. And why would OKC be a better location?
    One advantage OKC has over Tulsa is it is logistically located in the middle of the State and has 3 major interstates going through the city. From a logistical standpoint, it would be easier to ship in parts and products. This is why OKC would be a better choice!

  14. #39

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Funny to see Lana Tyree's name up there. It was just as much the AG's office, Jan Eric Cartwright. Lana was a family friend growing up. And before you go complaining about libs, Lana represented Fallin's daughter on a number of occasions. The fact is that there was the Oklahoma Industry Authority, which was making deals it had no authority to make, hiding records around town, hooking up its members with huge public funded benefits like the downtown tunnel system going to all the OIA members' buildings, Presbyterian Tower being built and then sold to the OIA members for a trifle, etc. It was corrupt as hell and it needed to be brought down.

    Cartwright's second term would have seen criminal prosecutions of the like of EK Gaylord. Sadly, the Oklahoman went hard against Cartwright in the Democratic primaries, Mike Turpen, lapdog to the elite, came into the office and the corruption probes disappeared overnight.

  15. #40

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    Funny to see Lana Tyree's name up there. It was just as much the AG's office, Jan Eric Cartwright. Lana was a family friend growing up. And before you go complaining about libs, Lana represented Fallin's daughter on a number of occasions. The fact is that there was the Oklahoma Industry Authority, which was making deals it had no authority to make, hiding records around town, hooking up its members with huge public funded benefits like the downtown tunnel system going to all the OIA members' buildings, Presbyterian Tower being built and then sold to the OIA members for a trifle, etc. It was corrupt as hell and it needed to be brought down.

    Cartwright's second term would have seen criminal prosecutions of the like of EK Gaylord. Sadly, the Oklahoman went hard against Cartwright in the Democratic primaries, Mike Turpen, lapdog to the elite, came into the office and the corruption probes disappeared overnight.
    EK Gaylord died in 1974, while Cartwright didn't start as AG until January 1979. I'm guessing you mean EL Gaylord, who was EK's son. I will admit I was just a young guy in my early 20s when Cartwright was in office, but I don't recall ever hearing anything that would make me think criminal prosecution of Gaylord, or any of his contemporaries, would be in the offing. My recollection is that the GM case was political suicide for Cartwright. He was 100% correct in his opinion of the law, IIRC, but I don't recall him being seen as the hero, or sympathetic character in the eyes of the public.

    Sadly, I think he died before age fifty?

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    Funny to see Lana Tyree's name up there. It was just as much the AG's office, Jan Eric Cartwright. Lana was a family friend growing up. And before you go complaining about libs, Lana represented Fallin's daughter on a number of occasions. The fact is that there was the Oklahoma Industry Authority, which was making deals it had no authority to make, hiding records around town, hooking up its members with huge public funded benefits like the downtown tunnel system going to all the OIA members' buildings, Presbyterian Tower being built and then sold to the OIA members for a trifle, etc. It was corrupt as hell and it needed to be brought down.

    Cartwright's second term would have seen criminal prosecutions of the like of EK Gaylord. Sadly, the Oklahoman went hard against Cartwright in the Democratic primaries, Mike Turpen, lapdog to the elite, came into the office and the corruption probes disappeared overnight.
    It’s a real stretch to proclaim there would have been criminal prosecutions of Gaylord. And to call out Turpin is just a result of your political condition.

  17. Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsooner View Post
    I to want to thank you for your insight, however, you raise an issue that has been known for decades. Oklahoma has an inadequately educated workforce. For example, Tinker has often stated they need more engineers, you say we didn't have the workers for SAAB. So what is the State doing to alleviate or improve in this area. For the state to continue to experience a workforce (talent) gap that continues to cost good jobs is not defendable to me. As I mentioned in the beginning the Tinker jobs are substantial and welcome, BUT where is private industry in a State that loathes big government? Oklahoma touts its low cost of living, low energy cost, abundant land, abundant energy resources and for the most part lower labor cost when compared to other places. My main point is that the State of Oklahoma appears from my perspective to spend alot of time and effort on issues and agendas that don't support improvement of the lives of Oklahomans.
    All of the area career techs have formed a compact and are working together to provide the skill sets needed. They are actually doing their own economic development working directly with companies and site selectors to fill specific needs. OKC's low employment actually hurts us when it come to economic development. All the career tech's have a clear understanding of what skill sets are going out the door. Universities tend to tell the employers what they need instead of listening. The state funded career techs are listening to the employers.

  18. Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    I think this thread presupposes that Oklahoma should be actively competing for things like manufacturing plants. I don't think it should. By which I mean, I don't think that we should be offering huge tax breaks and subsidies to businesses to try to incentivize them to move here. It's a bad idea because Oklahoma doesn't get much tax revenue to begin with, so we can't really afford to be giving it away. Secondly, if we do land the deal, we risk some other state or city putting together an even flashier deal and luring the company away, leaving us with a lot of money spent and still no business.

    We should instead focus on simply making the state a good place to live and work, so that people choose to come to Oklahoma on its merits, not because we bribed them with freebies. Doing so would mean we'd be building up companies that are already here and encouraging new businesses to form. Look at the cannabis industry; that's all homegrown economic growth that is putting far more people to work and bringing more entrepreneurs in from out of state than a single manufacturing plant would, all without state and local governments having to spend a dime to subsidize any of it.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott5114 View Post
    I think this thread presupposes that Oklahoma should be actively competing for things like manufacturing plants. I don't think it should. By which I mean, I don't think that we should be offering huge tax breaks and subsidies to businesses to try to incentivize them to move here. It's a bad idea because Oklahoma doesn't get much tax revenue to begin with, so we can't really afford to be giving it away. Secondly, if we do land the deal, we risk some other state or city putting together an even flashier deal and luring the company away, leaving us with a lot of money spent and still no business.

    We should instead focus on simply making the state a good place to live and work, so that people choose to come to Oklahoma on its merits, not because we bribed them with freebies. Doing so would mean we'd be building up companies that are already here and encouraging new businesses to form. Look at the cannabis industry; that's all homegrown economic growth that is putting far more people to work and bringing more entrepreneurs in from out of state than a single manufacturing plant would, all without state and local governments having to spend a dime to subsidize any of it.
    That is what Oklahoma City has been doing since the first MAPS project and now has a lot of growth to show for it. Other cities in Oklahoma need to do the same, but are reluctant to raise the city sales taxes to do it. Don't know what a state wide version of MAPS would be like and doubtful it would pass.

    Many of the rural counties were against any legalization of medical marijuana. I don't know how they expect for things to get better. Maybe Oklahoma will vote on whether to legalize rec marijuana in 2022. Might as well beat Texas to doing that.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    Hasn't OKC gotten several large aviation and defense related manufacturing operations relocated there recently? I know Boeing relocated it's most or all of it's Wichita and California based manufacturing operations here.
    None of the Boeing jobs that moved to OKC were manufacturing. Boeing OKC is not a manufacturing site...it's all engineering, biz ops, or services.

  21. #46

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Dearborn View Post
    None of the Boeing jobs that moved to OKC were manufacturing. Boeing OKC is not a manufacturing site...it's all engineering, biz ops, or services.
    Which pay better. And look better, from an optics standpoint.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Why doesn't Oklahoma compete and win big manufacturing plants

    Quote Originally Posted by chssooner View Post
    Which pay better. And look better, from an optics standpoint.
    Engineering, yes. Biz and services, just depends on the level. Touch labor manufacturing jobs pay very well in aerospace.

    Not really sure what you mean by "looks better" though...

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