Boardwalk at Bricktown / Dream Hotel

[Bellaboo]

Attachment 18772

Nice angle, fits right in.

[Mesta Parker]

The article is on the front page of the WSJ print edition today.

[Urbanized]

Even the photos later in the story seem to be framed to show the most unflattering angles possible. The one above crops the bulk of the existing skyline completely out of the photo, and this one manages to be taken from a rarely-seen angle that fools the eye; it causes the Devon Tower to seem to be similar in height to BancFirst, when in reality it’s nearly twice the height, while FNC and City Place look to be half the height of BancFirst. Beyond that, taken from an angle that downplays the existing density. Definite shenanigans in the photo editing.

[David]

Yes, of course they use the most unflattering pic of the city they could find.

There are many intellectually honest ways to approach an honest article looking at its unlikelihood, but the outsiders choose instead to demean and mock. They don’t seem to be making fun of the proposal as much as of Oklahoma City.

Thus what I was saying a few pages ago.

[Tyson]

Yeah, also the headline just had to say “in… Oklahoma” as if OKC wasn’t one of the fastest growing metropolitans in the country. I understand the questioning and the doubts but it really doesn’t help to exaggerate your point.

[jccouger]

It is a new york magazine after all.

I'm sure they aren't too keen to the idea of a rural right leaning state building a taller tower than they would have.

The worst part of this is knowing the very small chance this thing even gets built and knowing they will unleash hell on us when that day comes that it was somehow our fault because we are some pretender city or something along those lines.

[bison34]

It is a new york magazine after all.

I'm sure they aren't too keen to the idea of a rural right leaning state building a taller tower than they would have.

The worst part of this is knowing the very small chance this thing even gets built and knowing they will unleash hell on us when that day comes that it was somehow our fault because we are some pretender city or something along those lines.

No they won't. If this doesn't get built, no one will care in a year or so.

[citywokchinesefood]

It is a new york magazine after all.

I'm sure they aren't too keen to the idea of a rural right leaning state building a taller tower than they would have.

The worst part of this is knowing the very small chance this thing even gets built and knowing they will unleash hell on us when that day comes that it was somehow our fault because we are some pretender city or something along those lines.

lol, you actually believe this...

[Mr. Blue Sky]

It is a new york magazine after all.

The Wall Street Journal is not a magazine, it’s a daily newspaper. It’s also not a NY-centric newspaper, it’s considered a national publication and is well-read by many important people in business. This whole thing is just embarrassing all the way around.

[bison34]

The Wall Street Journal is not a magazine, it’s a daily newspaper. It’s also not a NY-centric newspaper, it’s considered a national publication and is well-read by many important people in business. This whole thing is just embarrassing all the way around.

Yeah, but people won't care either way in 6 months.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Yeah, but people won't care either way in 6 months.

Well, let’s hope not. My nightmare would be city profile packages during the NBA playoffs talking about this — why wouldn’t they? It’s been talked about now for the last month and the whole “tallest building in the country in the plains?” angle is just tailor-made for the ubiquitous profile fluff pieces at playoff time. I just want it all to go away.

[BDP]

The worst part of this is knowing the very small chance this thing even gets built and knowing they will unleash hell on us when that day comes that it was somehow our fault because we are some pretender city or something along those lines.

If it doesn't get built, you'll most likely just not hear about it in national publications again.

If it does get built, there will continue to be articles written about how unnecessary it is.

Really, the worst outcome for any of this, much more so than it not being built, is that it gets built and is unsuccessful / half empty. That will definitely be commented on, since it will essentially be a high profile failure. I don't think that should be seen as reflective of the state of the city itself (large projects fail in major cities all the time), but that is what people tend to do.

But, the only real downside from a PR perspective at this point, is that the discussion distracts from all the positive things that have happened and are happening in OKC, like the emergence of several various walkable neighborhoods and districts in the core with their own identities and mix of dining and entertainment options. Tall buildings like this one can be cool looking vanity projects, but "stuff to do" is more important and OKC's core has more of that than it ever has at a scale that is appropriate for its size.

Making any comparisons between OKC and major international cities, like NYC, that have hundreds of skyscrapers and millions more people is dumb on its face to begin with, whether this gets built or not.

[Rover]

Well, let’s hope not. My nightmare would be city profile packages during the NBA playoffs talking about this — why wouldn’t they? It’s been talked about now for the last month and the whole “tallest building in the country in the plains?” angle is just tailor-made for the ubiquitous profile fluff pieces at playoff time. I just want it all to go away.

NBA couldn't care less about proposed building projects in OKC. Everybody is giving this whole thing way, way more weight than it deserves. Making it such a big deal in our minds only proves that the rest of the country is right about us. We shouldn't act like we are googly eyed kids waiting for Christmas for some shiny toy.

[Rover]

Well, let’s hope not. My nightmare would be city profile packages during the NBA playoffs talking about this — why wouldn’t they? It’s been talked about now for the last month and the whole “tallest building in the country in the plains?” angle is just tailor-made for the ubiquitous profile fluff pieces at playoff time. I just want it all to go away.

OKC residents should quit tying their sense of worth on some wild investor from California.

[HOT ROD]

I think it is perfectly OK to be excited about a new skyscraper development in your city. Can you IMAGINE if this was being proposed in Seattle (my city)? Or Vancouver?

Or Chicago? Or NY?. Any city would be happy/proud to get such a development. I don't think OKC people should go hide away just so we look like we - been there done that. Which is what I presume your point is Rover. Even cities that been there and done that would be hyped about this - think Chicago Spire (yes it didn't happen but look at the hype back then from a multi million world city full of some of the world's first and tallest skyscrapers already). .. For this to be somewhat seriously proposed for OKC (and I say that because they ARE going through all the steps and approvals) - it's eye opening and OKC people should be hopeful, proud, and eager to defend their city from attack and 'continued' ridicule.

Now, will it be built? Kind of looks like there's a chance. But the rest of the development isn't being discussed and I think that is what most OKC people are most thrilled about - a dense addition to OKC's already dense urban entertainment district. That is what we should be talking about, like most on here have said the pics from the Wall Street Journal detract from - OKC's rise as a major city and with major city offerings. The supertall, if built, will be the literal cherry on the top.

Honestly, if anything the stories from WSJ (which is a NYC-centric national paper any way you slice it) chosing to pick dead of winter, East facing pics that crop most of the skyline; to me shows their insecurity moreso than OKCs. Because when people come to VISIT okc they will see the true, growing, modern city (at least in the core) that they too will be 'shocked' just as everybody else who comes to OKC is. If the papers/articles were more honest then visitors wouldn't be so surprised when they come.

This is a potential David vs. Goliath with regard to NYC's ego, they'll just ahve to deal with it just like Goliath did.

[Rover]

I think it is perfectly OK to be excited about a new skyscraper development in your city. Can you IMAGINE if this was being proposed in Seattle (my city)? Or Vancouver?

Or Chicago? Or NY?. Any city would be happy/proud to get such a development. I don't think OKC people should go hide away just so we look like we - been there done that. Which is what I presume your point is Rover. Even cities that been there and done that would be hyped about this - think Chicago Spire (yes it didn't happen but look at the hype back then from a multi million world city full of some of the world's first and tallest skyscrapers already). .. For this to be somewhat seriously proposed for OKC (and I say that because they ARE going through all the steps and approvals) - it's eye opening and OKC people should be hopeful, proud, and eager to defend their city from attack and 'continued' ridicule.

Now, will it be built? Kind of looks like there's a chance. But the rest of the development isn't being discussed and I think that is what most OKC people are most thrilled about - a dense addition to OKC's already dense urban entertainment district. That is what we should be talking about, like most on here have said the pics from the Wall Street Journal detract from - OKC's rise as a major city and with major city offerings. The supertall, if built, will be the literal cherry on the top.

Honestly, if anything the stories from WSJ (which is a NYC-centric national paper any way you slice it) chosing to pick dead of winter, East facing pics that crop most of the skyline; to me shows their insecurity moreso than OKCs. Because when people come to VISIT okc they will see the true, growing, modern city (at least in the core) that they too will be 'shocked' just as everybody else who comes to OKC is. If the papers/articles were more honest then visitors wouldn't be so surprised when they come.

This is a potential David vs. Goliath with regard to NYC's ego, they'll just ahve to deal with it just like Goliath did.

Man, if you think the people of NYC are insecure, I just don’t know what to say.

I track development projects all over the country. There are many that are well beyond the financial scope of this one as proposed. I get notifications on most development projects in New York. I can tell you they have plenty of other projects larger and more important than this proposal. Heck, even Dallas has projects exceeding this scope and the people don’t get hysterical as to whether it will happen and if it doesn’t, whether it makes them look bad. It’s just a part of the process. Our insecurity here is showing.

[HOT ROD]

i dont see anybody here getting histerical if it happens or not. people are just excited about a large scale project hitting OKC's radar. Nothing wrong with that. Believe me, people here would be doing the same thing and worse if it were proposed for Seattle.

IMO, almost everyone in OKC has the feeling "Ill believe it when I see it", just like they did with the Devon Tower if they even knew about it. What's wrong with that? Most people are also defending OKC - as a bonafide city vs. the stereotype narrative that continues to persist for some reason. Definitely nothing wrong with that.

NYC people are definitely insecure (not all of course, but the vocal ones who spread the narrative), otherwise they wouldn't even really be talking about OKC's tower other than perhaps a congrats or they'll build something taller and definitely wouldn't feel the need to belittle OKC as hick/redneck or whatever. ...

[Bellaboo]

Yeah, but people won't care either way in 6 months.

I don't think many care right now.

[jn1780]

OKC residents should quit tying their sense of worth on some wild investor from California.

Agreed. My tinfoil hat says he knee people would talk about the city in this way and it gives him plenty of opportunities to save face. "I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling haters!"

[warreng88]

I think most of the people on the board are in the same boat as thinking this has a very small chance of actually happening. I have had multiple people reach out to me that know I know a lot about urban development and everything going on in OKC to talk to me about this like it is a done deal. To everyone else on the board that goes through the same thing, what do you say to people when they ask/talk to you about it? I feel like I am regurgitating the same things over and over and being labeled as a pessimist because I don't think this is going to happen. Same with the American Heartland theme park in Vinita. Would love to get people's thoughts...

[bison34]

The 3 smaller towers? I can very easily see those happening. The supertall? No way. I think it gets shrunk down, or spread to 2 smaller towers. But I don't think just because the supertall won't happen, that the rest of the development is out, as well.

[warreng88]

The 3 smaller towers? I can very easily see those happening. The supertall? No way. I think it gets shrunk down, or spread to 2 smaller towers. But I don't think just because the supertall won't happen, that the rest of the development is out, as well.

If you are replying to me, I was talking specifically about the Legends Tower. The smaller towers I could see happening as well.

[Rover]

Agreed. My tinfoil hat says he knee people would talk about the city in this way and it gives him plenty of opportunities to save face. "I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling haters!"

The only opinions he cares about are boards that approve permits, bankers, investors, potential tenants, etc. Opinions on internet sites is way way low on items to be considered when it is totally doubtful that the opinions of the most opinionated and vocal posters represent a meaningful section of the population.

[Pete]

The next step is they have to submit building permit applications for the 3 towers, lagoon, podium, etc.

Matteson said they want to start moving dirt this summer and you can do some rudimentary things (like ground prep) without a building permit, but that doesn't get you far. And to get approved permits for a project like this, it will take around 6 months, if not longer. I doubt Hogan is going to let them tear up his income-producing parking lot without a building permit in hand.

So, they need to submit applications ASAP to have any hope of doing real work before the end of the year.

The ball is completely in their court now, so we'll see if they can actually move forward instead of just talk.

[soonerguru]

If you are replying to me, I was talking specifically about the Legends Tower. The smaller towers I could see happening as well.

I don't think I've spoken to anyone who views the Legends Tower as anything other than the way Hogan referred to it as, "aspirational." That doesn't mean it won't happen. It also doesn't mean it will. There are a lot of hurdles that would have to be navigated to get to that point.