Boardwalk at Bricktown / Dream Hotel

[PhiAlpha]

I don’t know if you saw my comment on the last page but if not, it’s top shelf how our minds went to the same two examples when talking about tornadoes impacting tall buildings haha

Don’t know if it was said earlier but the first major occurrence of a tornado hitting a downtown type area (according to Wikipedia) was when an F2 hit downtown Salt Lake City in 1999.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999...e_City_tornado

[PhiAlpha]

A few other data points worth noting (though they're not direct comparisons) - in 1970, an F5 tornado hit downtown Lubbock, TX and impacted the 20-story Metro Tower (now called NTS Tower). The building survived the tornado, but the force of the tornadic winds actually twisted the frame of the building to the point where most of the building's elevators were disabled. The building was extensively renovated and reopened 5 years after the tornado. It's the 2nd-tallest tower known to have survived a direct hit by an F5 tornado; the tallest is the 22-story ALICO building in downtown Waco, which was hit in 1953. Although neither of these building would meet the definition of "skyscraper", I think it's still significant that buildings of this magnitude can still survive extreme weather events like this. But that said, the Bank One building in Fort Worth is the only building that meets the definition of skyscraper that has been directly hit by a tornado that I'm personally aware of, and like you mentioned, that building survived too.

The Landmark Tower in Fort Worth was also hit by the tornado and was demolished as a result of the damage and high cost to restore it. It had been abandoned for around 16 years as well which didn’t help. Apparently was one of the tallest buildings ever demolished.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land..._Worth,_Texas)

[bombermwc]

^ I was told that Remington Tower basically took a direct hit, but the only reason it got destroyed on the inside is because the maintenance/elevator shaft on top of the building wasn't sealed or blew open, so all the pressure was able to run down the elevator shaft and blow things around in every story of the building. I was always curious about how much damage was actually done inside. Some floors were obliterated near the top, while the bottom was mostly spared from what I could tell. The big issue affecting the re-opening of the tower as actually insurance. The building wasn't doing great financially beforehand and either the owner the insurance company (I forget which) wanted to write it off while the other wanted to fix it and sell. They finally ended up selling it to a new investor after years of fighting about it.

Every time I drive by that monstrosity of a pile of crap, i wonder how long it will be before someone gives up and finally dozes it. Its one of the ugliest buildings i've ever seen. Is it an office build? Is it a airport control tower? Is it a flat glass face or a balconied one? It doesn't know what it is, other than it's ugly AF.

How does that relate at all? Well, storm damage is something you have to consider here. But really, a 100 story building isn't any different from a 30 story building in that regard. If a window blows out from either, you dont want to be anywhere near that base when it hits the ground because those shards are doing to become death missiles. You don't really need to be hit by an actual tornado to have this happen, but also think about how absolutely and incredibly rare it would be that hail or other debris would blow around strong enough to blow out what's in effect, ballistic glass. This stuff is extremely tough, and for good reason.

Switch topic
I did notice that skyscraperpage moved this tower to it's "vision" thread and closed it off. Basically, their view is that it's DOA and we're done with it. That may be, but the buzz it's created has been crazy. I was recently at an IT event in another state and when I mentioned i was from OKC, people from all over the country mentioned this tower as the first thing they associated with the city. "Isn't that where they are wanting to build that big tower?" So regardless of what happens, this thing has made the name OKC come up for publicity in a positive way. There have been articles shown here about different views about how it's not necessary or even recommended/outdated. But you know what, those people are talking about OKC and making people that may not have thought about it, think about it, and in a positive way.

[jn1780]

Switch topic
I did notice that skyscraperpage moved this tower to it's "vision" thread and closed it off. Basically, their view is that it's DOA and we're done with it. That may be, but the buzz it's created has been crazy. I was recently at an IT event in another state and when I mentioned i was from OKC, people from all over the country mentioned this tower as the first thing they associated with the city. "Isn't that where they are wanting to build that big tower?" So regardless of what happens, this thing has made the name OKC come up for publicity in a positive way. There have been articles shown here about different views about how it's not necessary or even recommended/outdated. But you know what, those people are talking about OKC and making people that may not have thought about it, think about it, and in a positive way.

They see a lot of "Vision Towers' over there. There just going to keep it there until something real happens. Otherwise, they may start talking about tornados when that isn't what is preventing this tower from happening.

[BG918]

In 2017 the 19 Story Remington Tower on I-44 in South Tulsa took a direct hit from a EF-2 tornado and WAS largely destroyed. The tornado got into the elevator shafts and blew out most of the windows in the building from the inside.

The building is currently being rebuilt into lofts.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news...-to-apartments

They are marketing the units at the newly-renamed Reese Tower: https://reesetower.com/

[Pete]

I should create some sort of pool where everyone force-ranks the likelihood of the following proposed developments:

Legends Tower
Boardwalk at Bricktown (all 3 towers)
Sunset Amphitheater
Strawberry Fields
Heartland Theme Park


And before the usual crew of neg-heads jump all over this, wanted to reiterate there are some amazing things already in the process of coming to fruition:

OKANA
OAK
Convergence
New Thunder arena
Multi-purpose stadium
Fairgrounds Coliseum
The Half
Wheeler District
Planetarium / Zoo improvements
and the 2028 Olympics

[mugofbeer]

I should create some sort of pool where everyone force-ranks the likelihood of the following proposed developments:

Legends Tower
Boardwalk at Bricktown (all 3 towers)
Sunset Amphitheater
Strawberry Fields
Heartland Theme Park

I'll bite!

Legends Tower - 0% in it's proposed size.
Boardwalk at Bricktown 3 towers - 75% eventually.
Sunset Amphitheater - 80% (A viable proposal, though l wish it were being built in another location)
Strawberry Fields - 75% (have there been plans released? Did l miss that? It might not be by the current owner.
Heartland Theme Park - 5% in it's proposed form.

[Bellaboo]

Legends Tower - 2% in its proposed size. 15% of something half that size (955 ft).
Boardwalk at Bricktown 3 towers - 85% but I think the time it takes will be a couple years longer..
Sunset Amphitheater - 80% this location is good. Should not infringe much.
Strawberry Fields - 15%
Heartland Theme Park - 3% in it's proposed form.

[jn1780]

I just feel like the idea for Heartland Theme Park came about due to on going Florida politics involving Disney. Hard for me to take it seriously. Reminds me of radio, TV, or social media networks being created for similar reasons.

[Rover]

Legends Tower: 1% (So you're saying there's a chance). 5% of it being built but taller than Devon. 0% chance to be started in 5 years or less.
Boardwalk at Bricktown (all 3 towers) 60%.
Sunset Amphitheater: 50%
Strawberry Fields: In the next 5 years 10% chance of 10% being built out. In the next 20 years: 100% chance of being substantially built out.
Heartland Theme Park: 5% as proposed. 60% as scaled down version.

[Mississippi Blues]

The Landmark Tower in Fort Worth was also hit by the tornado and was demolished as a result of the damage and high cost to restore it. It had been abandoned for around 16 years as well which didn’t help. Apparently was one of the tallest buildings ever demolished.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land..._Worth,_Texas)

I wish there were a better thread to discuss this because it feels off topic. That said, for clarity, Landmark Tower had been abandoned for 10 years when the tornado struck it and it switched hands many times with multiple plans to redevelop it but ultimately it was indeed demolished. How much of it being demolished was a result of the tornado can be debated but between the damage and years of neglect, the powers that be deemed it better to just demolish it rather than rehabilitate it.

[Mississippi Blues]

Don’t know if it was said earlier but the first major occurrence of a tornado hitting a downtown type area (according to Wikipedia) was when an F2 hit downtown Salt Lake City in 1999.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999...e_City_tornado

There’s definitely varying degrees of downtowns being impacted and it’s kind of fascinating in its own right. Baralheia and I were using instances of the strongest tornadoes as a way to measure whether a large structure - alas the one in this thread - could survive a particularly strong tornado.

[aDark]

lol at the term "neg-heads" - I'm going to start using that.

This looks fun! Here's my best guess:

Legends Tower - 0.1% chance it gets built to proposed size. 5% chance any "tower" gets built there which is taller than the 3 adjoining proposed towers. Hope I'm wrong.
Boardwalk at Bricktown 3 towers - 75%, but I doubt the renderings look anything like the final product.
Sunset Amphitheater - 51%. This investor-based idea smells super scammy. Only giving it a chance based on what I've read on this forum.
Strawberry Fields - Can we not call this "dead" now? 5%?
Heartland Theme Park - .01% that it gets built according to plans. 75% chance a very large RV park is built.

[jn1780]

I wish there were a better thread to discuss this because it feels off topic. That said, for clarity, Landmark Tower had been abandoned for 10 years when the tornado struck it and it switched hands many times with multiple plans to redevelop it but ultimately it was indeed demolished. How much of it being demolished was a result of the tornado can be debated but between the damage and years of neglect, the powers that be deemed it better to just demolish it rather than rehabilitate it.

I say someone should start a topic in Weather and Geoscience. Its tornado destruction science.

[Jesseda]

Legends Tower - 0%
Boardwalk at Bricktown 3 towers - 15% that we will get what they announced. 30% that we will get 3 tall buildings. 50 percent we will get 2 of the 3 announced.
Sunset Amphitheater - 75%
Strawberry Fields - 1%
Heartland Theme Park - 5% of what they announced. 50% a theme park will be built but not the size and attractions they announced.

[Richard at Remax]

Legends Tower: -1000%
Boardwalk at Bricktown: 3 towers 5% for 3 towers. 25% for 2. 50% for one, but it will be drastically different than renderings.
Sunset Amphitheater: 35%
Strawberry Fields : 0%
Heartland Theme Park: 0%. Only the RV park will get built.

[Tyson]

Legends Tower - -1000%

At first I didn't see the negative symbol and I was gonna vote for you to be president


I think most of us are on the same page with these. I'd vote similarly to everyone else.

What about you, Pete?

[Pete]

I'm less optimistic about the 3 towers in this development than most.

I'd settle for the Dream Hotel but there is obviously some concern about Matteson and his lack of verifiable track record. I know some local investors opted out of this pretty early on because they didn't think it was realistic. The good thing is we should start to see some real progress this year or maybe not, so optimism around this will either rise quickly or fall off a cliff.

[warreng88]

Do you think the touting and over publication of the "Legends" Tower turned some locals off to it?

[jn1780]

Do you think the touting and over publication of the "Legends" Tower turned some locals off to it?

Its the motivation for announcing the Legends tower that interests me. Do they feel that optimistic about the project or do they feel like they needed a PR boosts for some reason? They released a crappy early version that didn't catch anyone's interest and a month later they actually put a little bit of work into it.

I think the better question is did any investors or partners get turned off by it?

[Pete]

Do you think the touting and over publication of the "Legends" Tower turned some locals off to it?

This was before the craziness that is Legends Tower.

[G.Walker]

Legends Tower: 25%
Boardwalk at Bricktown (all 3 towers): 75%, they have been working on this for sometime, and things seem to keep moving forward.
Sunset Amphitheater: 50%
Strawberry Fields: 5%
Heartland Theme Park: 25%

[king183]

My skepticism about the 3 towers centers around demand. What does Matteson see that other, local developers don’t? I realize occupancy rates are very high in existing developments, but if the demand is such that it would make the building of residential towers economical, why isn’t phase 2 of the Steelyard rising out of the ground? Why is Boulevard on year 400 with no movement whatsoever? Why was the EK Gaylord site plan scaled back?

Maybe there’s a good answer for each, but I’d expect more to be happening downtown with those developments if the confidence level is so high for demand in towers.

[Pete]

My skepticism about the 3 towers centers around demand. What does Matteson see that other don’t? I realize occupancy rates are very high in existing developments, but if the demand is such that it would make the building of residential towers economical, why isn’t phase 2 of the Steelyard rising out of the ground? Why is Boulevard on year 400 with no movement whatsoever? Why was the EK Gaylord site plan scaled back?

And all those were proposed as mid-rise developments and there are a bunch more ready-to-go that have been stuck on the launch pad due to financing and concerns about filling up quickly at rents that would make them cash flow. (Hub, Alley North, all of Strawberry Fields, 4th & Shartel, McKown in Deep Deuce, on and on...)

Hi-rise is considerably more complex and expensive. At the same time, the lack of it OKC might be the answer to your question. But it took a quite a while for First National to lease their most expensive units. And looking at their website, looks like they have plenty of units available or coming available and they've been open a couple of years now. Urbanized could provide more perspective but it's not like they have a waitlist.

[HOT ROD]

Legends Tower: 60%
Boardwalk at Bricktown (all 3 towers): 100%
Sunset Amphitheater: 90%
Strawberry Fields: 0%
Heartland Theme Park: 0%

Boardwalk at Bricktown has always proposed 4 towers, it wasn't until recently that the 4th tower became Legends Tower. So, my opinion is it WILL happen. The only question is it's height and when, which I'll return to after the next point.

I say Boardwalk happens at 100% because this isn't something that was cooked up overnight or shown in a fad mag, Boardwalk has had a few iterations and received approval from the city and a $200m TIF rebate. The rebate mandates at least two residential towers and podium yet I'm sure the developer truly wants the Dream Hotel by Hyatt and the supertall since more $$ can be made. When you consider the aformentioned, as well as who's involved (Hyatt, AO, Hogan/land, etc), this will happen. Now, as to the supertall, Legends Tower, it will happen because there is a purpose. Whether it happens quickly, or at 1907 is the question - that depends on how successful the 2 towers are. I think the 2 are set up to be quite successful, with a significant amount of workforce housing which "should" be easy to fill up. So we're talking about half or so for market rate, which given OKC doesn't have much of this to offer (and NONE in a modern highrise), I also think that will fill quickly esp since it's rental. People may not realize or admit that numerous people come in and out of OKC temporarily, that don't care about school or school districts, that want to reside where the action is. Downtown is it, and given the primary comp that is First National's occupancy - I'm sure this will get built and be a success. Again, the only question is how tall and when will the Legends Tower be. But I am sure it WILL be OKC's landmark tower (and not some oil derrick).

Sunset - this will happen because it fills a niche that OKC doesn't have (but likely demand is there) and the developer will build on the success of earlier parks to assemble capital. He NEEDS OKC to be built in order for the other locations, OKC would be its biggest city until the DFW location. And since the land is there and W OKC is rapidly expanding, this will get built and likely in 2 years or so.

Strawberry Fields - enough already. Sell it to the developers building Wheeler.

Heartland Themepark - knee-jerk