Boardwalk at Bricktown / Dream Hotel

[bison34]

Matteson has never said it was visionary -- he's never said anything to make you believe this wasn't 100% happening. In that OETA interview he said he was in the process of obtaining FAA clearance for the full 1,907 feet of the super tall and expected to receive it within 30 days.

Randy Hogan called Legends Tower 'aspirational', not Matteson.

I guess I got Hogan and Matteson mixed up. My bad.

[Tyson]

I guess I got Hogan and Matteson mixed up. My bad.

The whole thing is confusing- what is and isn’t happening. I don’t blame you.

[G.Walker]

I for one think at least the first phase will happen. It's not like we are just finding out about this project, they have been working on this project for years. So it's funny now how people are giving this skeptical rhetoric when we are finally coming around 3rd base on this thing. And also people keep just saying Matteson, like he is doing this all by himself. Yes, Matteson is spearheading this thing, but I am sure there are many other parties involved that we don't know about. Local developer Randy Hogan is involved as well, and his credibility and reputation is on the line to.

[Pete]

^

Hogan owns the land and there has been no indication he has any involvement beyond that. If others are involved, Matteson hasn't mentioned them throughout this multi-year process.

And there has been justified skepticism from almost the outset.


Absolutely everyone wants this project to happen. But when you talk with the same confidence about building the tallest building in the U.S. in a Bricktown parking lot and actively seek attention for those plans, it calls your credibility into question and that's why there has been a fresh wave of doubt.

[citywokchinesefood]

All I know is if they actually build the 1907' tower I will 100% buy a condo in it. I have a place downtown in Deep Deuce I mostly airbnb or use as a crashpad after concerts/events/got too drunk at the bar with a west facing balcony that has some incredible sunsets. I have rented out the Chef's table a couple times at Vast and the sunset view is somehow more spectacular. When you see it, it is hard to not be enthralled by it for a moment. I can see some real draw for this development if it is actually built and is operated well. Oklahoma City has continued to invest in its future and I genuinely think people are starting to notice. This city will never be bigger than Houston, Chicago, or Dallas, however I can see a future where it has its own unique draw and is an epicenter for what will become midwestern American culture. As someone that loves good food and the arts, I really appreciate the trajectory OKC is on. State level politics aside I am pretty happy with OKC.

[jn1780]

I for one think at least the first phase will happen. It's not like we are just finding out about this project, they have been working on this project for years. So it's funny now how people are giving this skeptical rhetoric when we are finally coming around 3rd base on this thing. And also people keep just saying Matteson, like he is doing this all by himself. Yes, Matteson is spearheading this thing, but I am sure there
are many other parties involved that we don't know about. Local developer Randy Hogan is involved as well, and his credibility and reputation is on the line to.

I don't see length of "planning" as evidence of anything. Half of that time was during covid when nothing for sure was going to happen. Wouldn't surprise if Hogan says surprise and he announces a partnership with a completely different developer.

[HOT ROD]

I for one think at least the first phase will happen. It's not like we are just finding out about this project, they have been working on this project for years. So it's funny now how people are giving this skeptical rhetoric when we are finally coming around 3rd base on this thing. And also people keep just saying Matteson, like he is doing this all by himself. Yes, Matteson is spearheading this thing, but I am sure there are many other parties involved that we don't know about. Local developer Randy Hogan is involved as well, and his credibility and reputation is on the line to.

this has been my take as well G Walker. People on here keep acting like the project just got announced in December 2023, when it's been in the works for years but likely delayed due to the pandemic. Also, as you pointed out - more than just Matteson is involved if you look at the full list - they have significant credibility.

Here's the way I take it, Phase I is fully financed and ready to go/start in June/July per Matteson's prediction. Since he as to ask for a variance to 345' for the 3 towers of phase I, he's ALSO asking for variance up to 1907' for phase 2 (since he's already asking/applying). I don't think it means at all that Phase 2 is fully financed, I do believe he likely has Phase I. Hogan spoke of Legends as aspirational and would be built after Phase I. This is set up for Phase I to be successful, given OKC's pent-up luxury highrise demand and that the towers wont be fully market which is smart IMO. Even Legends tower will be mixed use with Hyatt Hotel taking most of the space - thereby further limiting risk.

I know I tend to look at things half full, but I'm also considering all facts here not just his announcement of Tower 3 to become the 1907 Legends Tower supertall.

One final point, consider Holt and I forget the Economic Agency guy take on this, but it seems they know something but are being tight lipped. ...

[HOT ROD]

All I know is if they actually build the 1907' tower I will 100% buy a condo in it. I have a place downtown in Deep Deuce I mostly airbnb or use as a crashpad after concerts/events/got too drunk at the bar with a west facing balcony that has some incredible sunsets. I have rented out the Chef's table a couple times at Vast and the sunset view is somehow more spectacular. When you see it, it is hard to not be enthralled by it for a moment. I can see some real draw for this development if it is actually built and is operated well. Oklahoma City has continued to invest in its future and I genuinely think people are starting to notice. This city will never be bigger than Houston, Chicago, or Dallas, however I can see a future where it has its own unique draw and is an epicenter for what will become midwestern American culture. As someone that loves good food and the arts, I really appreciate the trajectory OKC is on. State level politics aside I am pretty happy with OKC.

I agree with you that I also will purchase something in Legends for the same reason and purpose you mention (also adding to other OKC purchases I have)..

[king183]

Here's the way I take it, Phase I is fully financed and ready to go/start in June/July per Matteson's prediction. Since he as to ask for a variance to 345' for the 3 towers of phase I, he's ALSO asking for variance up to 1907' for phase 2 (since he's already asking/applying). I don't think it means at all that Phase 2 is fully financed, I do believe he likely has Phase I. Hogan spoke of Legends as aspirational and would be built after Phase I. This is set up for Phase I to be successful, given OKC's pent-up luxury highrise demand and that the towers wont be fully market which is smart IMO. Even Legends tower will be mixed use with Hyatt Hotel taking most of the space - thereby further limiting ...

What is your basis for saying OKC has pent-up luxury high rise demand? There is no such demand from what I can tell. I can think of at least three luxury condo projects by reputable developers in the last ten years that failed to launch due to lack of demand. One of those sites is now being turned into a parking lot.

[HOT ROD]

none of them were highrises.

Look at First National. thatis the comp (as I have stated before)

[king183]

You’re saying First National is the basis for claim there is pent-up luxury high rise demand? My understanding is First National still hasn’t filled their apartments. Hence, using your comp, there is the opposite of pent-up demand.

[jn1780]

I don't people are picking where they live just because it's a 'high rise'. It's the whole culture of urban living that brings people in. The high rises are there because there is demand to live in that area, they are not driving that demand

[PhiAlpha]

this has been my take as well G Walker. People on here keep acting like the project just got announced in December 2023, when it's been in the works for years but likely delayed due to the pandemic. Also, as you pointed out - more than just Matteson is involved if you look at the full list - they have significant credibility.

Here's the way I take it, Phase I is fully financed and ready to go/start in June/July per Matteson's prediction. Since he as to ask for a variance to 345' for the 3 towers of phase I, he's ALSO asking for variance up to 1907' for phase 2 (since he's already asking/applying). I don't think it means at all that Phase 2 is fully financed, I do believe he likely has Phase I. Hogan spoke of Legends as aspirational and would be built after Phase I. This is set up for Phase I to be successful, given OKC's pent-up luxury highrise demand and that the towers wont be fully market which is smart IMO. Even Legends tower will be mixed use with Hyatt Hotel taking most of the space - thereby further limiting risk.

I know I tend to look at things half full, but I'm also considering all facts here not just his announcement of Tower 3 to become the 1907 Legends Tower supertall.

One final point, consider Holt and I forget the Economic Agency guy take on this, but it seems they know something but are being tight lipped. ...

Pent up demand based on what? I think there might be enough demand for a single high rise residential tower but anymore than that seems like wishful thinking at this time.

[HOT ROD]

^ you just agreed with me that I said Phase 1 is set up to be successful. The demand is based on comp from First National, it is the only luxury high-rise in OKC; however, it is a conversion. We'll see how OKC responds but it appears that Phase 1 will be successful.

^^ Some on here are quite ridiculous, that people don't chose where to live to be in a highrise??? I suppose to these people that highrises in other cities aren't due to people desiring to live in them. .... ???

In reality - There are many that chose to live in a highrise IF they're available. In fact, there were 'at least' 2 examples on this forum that indicate desire to live in a luxury highrise in downtown OKC (particularly the supertall). ....

[soonerguru]

Pent up demand based on what? I think there might be enough demand for a single high rise residential tower but anymore than that seems like wishful thinking at this time.

Mister Buzzkill.

[Tyson]

I would 100% live in that tower if I could ever afford it.

[jn1780]

I would 100% live in that tower if I could ever afford it.

Key word there and there are some who can afford it but will decide "having a great view" is not worth the price premium.

We are muddying up the discussion when talking about the three towers with the 'legendary tower'. I'm less pessimistic with finding demand for those three.

[Swake]

I would 100% live in that tower if I could ever afford it.

High floor apartments in supertalls go for eight digits, some nine digits.

[Teo9969]

High floor apartments in supertalls go for eight digits, some nine digits.

Where in this country are they going for NINE digits?

[ChrisHayes]

Where in this country are they going for NINE digits?

A few ugly supertalls in NYC. That's it.

[Swake]

A few ugly supertalls in NYC. That's it.

There are five super tall residential buildings in all of the Americas and all of them are in New York. That's it.

Here's the most expensive. $250 million.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/busines...million/435634

Condos in the eight digits is the only way to make construction of super tall residential buildings make sense.

[jn1780]

Yep, high rises are inherently more expensive because you have to build them out of steel or concrete. No luxury condos built from matchsticks. RIP Canton.

[okcrun]

High floor apartments in supertalls go for eight digits, some nine digits.

Yeah seems like some delusional people hear talking about the potential demand for these condos. Best you could hope for is a lot of foreign investors looking to park their money somewhere in the US.

[bison34]

There are five super tall residential buildings in all of the Americas and all of them are in New York. That's it.

Here's the most expensive. $250 million.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/busines...million/435634

Condos in the eight digits is the only way to make construction of super tall residential buildings make sense.

I do hope you realize that the cost of an equivalent building in OKC would be half the cost of an NYC building, most likely. The condos, yes, would have to be expensive, but not nearly as much as a big, more expensive city.

[jn1780]

I do hope you realize that the cost of an equivalent building in OKC would be half the cost of an NYC building, most likely. The condos, yes, would have to be expensive, but not nearly as much as a big, more expensive city.

There are reasons why those big cities are expensive and why OKC has a lower cost of living.

Is the argument there is strong demand from people wishing to escape the big cities, move to OKC and get a great view looking out at flat landscape?

The actual materials cost of the building doesn't change. Labor is probably cheaper though.