HTeaO

[LakeEffect]

There were several Route 66 alignments through OKC, but at one time it absolutely included that stretch of 23rd, which is why you have things like the old motel that is now the Flamingo apartments:

66 went down 23rd Street until 1954. I spent many hours researching this when I worked in Public Works. We were assisting the Mayor's office with defining the "official" stretch of historic Route 66 through OKC, with David Holt then being staff to the Mayor. Holt was very interested in the project.

[Pete]

^

That's a great map! Thanks very much.

[Rover]

Are there really that many developers in OKC with no vision or taste whatsoever who just want to make the cheapest dollar they can? What an awful proposed replacement. When will we get past this ridiculous strip mall fad?

When people quit frequenting the stores that are in them or the city bans strip center retail in areas or all over.

[Dob Hooligan]

I love Mid-Century as much as anyone. But, this was a relatively inexpensively built, fast food restaurant that failed pretty quickly. I don't see it as an icon of anything special.

If we follow the outrage on this thread, I would be afraid to see the response when an old red roofed Pizza Hut building was torn down.

[GoGators]

I love Mid-Century as much as anyone. But, this was a relatively inexpensively built, fast food restaurant that failed pretty quickly. I don't see it as an icon of anything special.

If we follow the outrage on this thread, I would be afraid to see the response when an old red roofed Pizza Hut building was torn down.

I’m outraged by what is proposed to replace it more than the building itself being torn down. However, compared to what is proposed, the existing Mutts building is an architectural wonder of the world.

This is not an improvement in any way.

[shawnw]

66 went down 23rd Street until 1954. I spent many hours researching this when I worked in Public Works. We were assisting the Mayor's office with defining the "official" stretch of historic Route 66 through OKC, with David Holt then being staff to the Mayor. Holt was very interested in the project.

very awesome map, is it considered public domain?

[LakeEffect]

very awesome map, is it considered public domain?

Good question... this one is likely considered public domain, since it's the officially adopted "Scenic Byway" route:

[BoulderSooner]

66 went down 23rd Street until 1954. I spent many hours researching this when I worked in Public Works. We were assisting the Mayor's office with defining the "official" stretch of historic Route 66 through OKC, with David Holt then being staff to the Mayor. Holt was very interested in the project.

i posted it earlier but the way north to 39th was moved from classen/western to may in 1933

[shawnw]

Good question... this one is likely considered public domain, since it's the officially adopted "Scenic Byway" route:

Cool thanks. Thinking about an eventual social media post for the brewery...

[SoonersFan12]

I am very sad to see Mutts gone! They have the best fried pickles in the world!

[mugofbeer]

I doubt they even use developers for this kind of crap, there's probably a stripmallsrus.com site that any idiot with money and no sense of civic responsibility or taste can download plans from...

There's literally storefronts vacant with a "for lease" sign on them two blocks away on the north side of 23rd right before Classen, and I'd bet there's more within a few blocks that I can't think of right now, there is absolutely no need for this crappy strip mall anywhere in the city, much less replacing the Mutt's building.

Tax laws make it easy to put a cheap one of these up, lease only a single spot or two, and still make money after tax breaks and depreciation.

[Rover]

Tax laws make it easy to put a cheap one of these up, lease only a single spot or two, and still make money after tax breaks and depreciation.

Please explain how you think that works.

[mugofbeer]

Other than I've attended a couple of sales conferences for this sort of thing, try G-O-O-G-L-E if you really wanted to know.

[Rover]

Other than I've attended a couple of sales conferences for this sort of thing, try G-O-O-G-L-E if you really wanted to know.

If you are alluding to accelerated/bonus depreciation tax implications, it doesn’t make them profitable. It may help with cash flow the first year, but only if you have gains to offset. And, there is possible recapture with penalties if you sell too quickly. Remember, land costs are not depreciable and only some of the assets qualify... maybe 10% of the building, especially if it is only partially built out as you suggest.

I’m just curious if you are implying something else. I do cost segregation/forensic engineering for some clients.

[TheTravellers]

This is going to come down because of demolition by neglect, went by on the way home from Homeland on Sat. The blue tarps on the roof are torn apart and exposing the holes in the roof, and with all the storms coming up this spring, the inside will be damaged probably beyond repair. And poof, just like that, we have a new crappy strip mall with absolutely no personality or historic character, yay, go capitalism...

[GoGators]

Did this proposal go to the Urban Design Committee or were these meetings put on hold? I was planning on attending for this one but then covid happened. Would be curious to know how that meeting went if it did.

As far as the current building it is being neglected and you are correct that it will probably have to come down at this point. That doesn’t mean this trash strip mall proposal HAS to be the thing that replaces it. This is exactly where the UDC needs to step in.

[Pete]

Did this proposal go to the Urban Design Committee or were these meetings put on hold?

The demolition and plans to rebuild are still pending; have not been approved.

[TheTravellers]

The demolition and plans to rebuild are still pending; have not been approved.

It looks like the demolition was approved, but the rebuilding was denied. Original minutes are at https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/mtgvi...octype=MINUTES, but here's the gist.


UDCA-20-00009, at 1400 NW 23rd St (NW 23rd Street Uptown). Consideration and possible action on an application by Robert Haggard for Fong Jordan, to: 1) Demolish existing building and site improvements; 2) Construct new building (variance required from maximum front yard setback requirement); 3) Construct parking lot; 4) Construct sidewalks; 5) Install lighting; 6) Install landscaping; and 7) Construct fences; and provide a recommendation to the Board of Adjustment regarding a variance from the maximum front yard setback regulation.

Applicant Robert Haggard commented on the project.

Property owner Fong Jordan commented on the project.

A quorum roll call was made at 3:23 p.m. with all members present.

Motion: Blatt/Guillory to approve items 1.a. and 1.b. of the application and deny items 2.a., 3.a., 4.a., 5.a., 6.a., 7.a., and 7.b.

Ayes: Peoples, Ude, Blatt, Charneco, Guillory, Holmes, Miller, Nguyen, Varnum
Nays: None

Action: APPROVED.

[GoGators]

It looks like the demolition was approved, but the rebuilding was denied. Original minutes are at https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/mtgvi...octype=MINUTES, but here's the gist.


UDCA-20-00009, at 1400 NW 23rd St (NW 23rd Street Uptown). Consideration and possible action on an application by Robert Haggard for Fong Jordan, to: 1) Demolish existing building and site improvements; 2) Construct new building (variance required from maximum front yard setback requirement); 3) Construct parking lot; 4) Construct sidewalks; 5) Install lighting; 6) Install landscaping; and 7) Construct fences; and provide a recommendation to the Board of Adjustment regarding a variance from the maximum front yard setback regulation.

Applicant Robert Haggard commented on the project.

Property owner Fong Jordan commented on the project.

A quorum roll call was made at 3:23 p.m. with all members present.

Motion: Blatt/Guillory to approve items 1.a. and 1.b. of the application and deny items 2.a., 3.a., 4.a., 5.a., 6.a., 7.a., and 7.b.

Ayes: Peoples, Ude, Blatt, Charneco, Guillory, Holmes, Miller, Nguyen, Varnum
Nays: None

Action: APPROVED.

This is decent news. They denied the actual strip mall as proposed. They also denied the variance request for moving the maximum set back which is fantastic. At the end of the day I’m pretty happy with the outcome of this one at this point.

[TheTravellers]

This is decent news. They denied the actual strip mall as proposed. They also denied the variance request for moving the maximum set back which is fantastic. At the end of the day I’m pretty happy with the outcome of this one at this point.

Yep, UDC did what they should've, glad to see that, hopefully it portends well for future plans for that property.

[Pete]

Why approve demolition without an acceptable plan to rebuild?

[TheTravellers]

Why approve demolition without an acceptable plan to rebuild?

Good point, maybe they were concerned with the condition of the building and wanted to have it come down as quickly and safely as possible? I don't think it's in imminent danger of falling down, though, so yeah, a bit odd, and as has been said by many on here - tie a demo permit to an acceptable replacement for what's being demo-ed.

[Pete]

^

You can't force someone to build.

But you can deny a design review application to tear something down while simultaneously proposing rebuilding something that doesn't meet design requirements.

[TheTravellers]

^

You can't force someone to build.

But you can deny a design review application to tear something down while simultaneously proposing rebuilding something that doesn't meet design requirements.

Maybe ask Peoples, Ude, Blatt, Charneco, Guillory, Holmes, Miller, Nguyen, Varnum why they approved to demo, but deny building?

[GoGators]

Perhaps the UDC saw the writing on the wall for this building and knew it was in a state of disrepair with roof open that it would deteriorate quickly. Its also pretty obvious the current owners have zero plan or desire to mitigate the problem. Maybe they decided to go ahead and issue the demo permit instead of waiting a couple of more years while it fell apart only to revisit the issue 3 years later with the building in absolute shambles. I really don't know but this is the only thing i can think of off the top of my head.

I would rather the building just be saved. However IMO this is one of the few instances where this property being an empty lot for 5 years would be better than the proposed replacement structure being approved and built..