Covid-19 Vaccine Information

[HangryHippo]

And how long has it been since they all took the vaccine? 5 months...6 months at most? Do you know if there will be any long term health effects from it or any longer term side effects? No...because no one knows that conclusively yet...the vaccines haven't even been around for a full year yet.

This same sentiment pertains to having had the actual virus as well though. You currently have no idea what the long-term effects of having the virus will be, but there's plenty of emerging evidence that's it's not just a get it and get over it scenario for many, but it seems like it only matters that we don't know if the vaccines have any long-term issues?

[PhiAlpha]

This same sentiment pertains to having had the actual virus as well though. You currently have no idea what the long-term effects of having the virus will be, but there's plenty of emerging evidence that's it's not just a get it and get over it scenario for many, but it seems like it only matters that we don't know if the vaccines have any long-term issues?

Well I've already had Covid...so if I end up with any long-term side effects from the virus itself then that's already in the cards which is why I don't currently have any interest in adding the potential for any vaccine side effects, near-term or long-term.

[jedicurt]

*facepalm....

[PhiAlpha]

*facepalm....

LOL, you guys need to get over yourselves. Didn't realize I'd trigger so many people by saying "I already had Covid recently, the likelihood of catching it again is low and I have some minor concerns about the vaccines, so I'm going to hold off on getting it for now." How dare anyone, who's physician didn't even think he needed to get the vaccine right now, decide to delay getting it. Yes, in a shocking twist, I'm not crazy about getting a vaccine that will in all likelihood at minimum make me feel like crap when it isn't currently necessary.

[BDP]

[QUOTE=PhiAlpha;1166506]

No, the snarky/condescending way with which you provided it was where the holier than thou comment came, not the data itself. You know what I meant.

There must have been some sort of assumption of malice there (the internet has not figured out how to represent inflection). I was just pointing out that your analysis or risk assessment was about you and even said I hope that all works out for you. I was just pointing out that this is not exclusively a personal decision. It's just as much a public health decision. The decision to get vaccinated is obviously exclusively yours, but the risk of getting covid again is not exclusively yours. That's all I was trying to point out.

But, at the end of the day, just call your doctor. If he/she says there's no reason for you to get the vaccine, then you should follow that advice.

[PhiAlpha]

[QUOTE=BDP;1166549]

There must have been some sort of assumption of malice there (the internet has not figured out how to represent inflection). I was just pointing out that your analysis or risk assessment was about you and even said I hope that all works out for you. I was just pointing out that this is not exclusively a personal decision. It's just as much a public health decision. The decision to get vaccinated is obviously exclusively yours, but the risk of getting covid again is not exclusively yours. That's all I was trying to point out.

But, at the end of the day, just call your doctor. If he/she says there's no reason for you to get the vaccine, then you should follow that advice.

Fair enough, apologies for making that assumption.

[BDP]

[QUOTE=PhiAlpha;1166552]

Fair enough, apologies for making that assumption.

No problem.

Fist bump emoji.

[dankrutka]

look i am not anti the covid vaccine ..... but maybe some people want to at least wait until the clinical trial is closer to being finished ... ....

I'm confused by the entire discussion here. I assumed everyone knows clinical trials for the vaccines started in the spring of 2020, proved the vaccines extremely safe, and that data has been confirmed worldwide by millions of people. These vaccines have both completed trials and real world data. If you're skeptical of the vaccines at this point you're 100% ignoring all the evidence.

In regards to vaccine side effects, pretty much all scientists agree that 75 years of vaccine research suggests that side effects are evident in the short term, not the longterm. Those worrying about longterm effects are doing so against all scientific knowledge. Of course, we already have widespread evidence of longterm evidence of negative COVID side effects.

The science is as clear as could be on all the issues being discussed here. It's basically a discussion of people with evidence and people who are making unfounded, speculative claims.

[Canoe]

I'm confused by the entire discussion here. I assumed everyone knows clinical trials for the vaccines started in the spring of 2020, proved the vaccines extremely safe, and that data has been confirmed worldwide by millions of people. These vaccines have both completed trials and real world data. If you're skeptical of the vaccines at this point you're 100% ignoring all the evidence.

I would tend to agree. So far so good. People like Phi Alpha are just being cautious with thier body. That seems like a prudent think to do at all times.

[dankrutka]

I would tend to agree. So far so good. People like Phi Alpha are just being cautious with thier body. That seems like a prudent think to do at all times.

Not taking a vaccine that is proven incredibly safe in trials and the real world in favor of possible COVID reinfection (possibly from more harmful variants) is actually being reckless with your body, not cautious or prudent. It's kind of like choosing to keep driving drunk because you don't want a bad hangover. Of course, just like with the vaccine, you're risking other peoples lives too.

[BDP]

I would tend to agree. So far so good. People like Phi Alpha are just being cautious with thier body. That seems like a prudent think to do at all times.

Or, at least, it's certainly not prudent if you think that what you do only affects you. It's literally doubling down on: "**** you" fellow Americans. "I'll probably be okay. Sorry for your loss if I gave it to you, I'm waiting for the report I agree with from the source I already follow".

[PhiAlpha]

[quote=bdp;1166556]

no problem.

fist bump emoji.

haha

[PhiAlpha]

Not taking a vaccine that is proven incredibly safe in trials and the real world in favor of possible COVID reinfection (possibly from more harmful variants) is actually being reckless with your body, not cautious or prudent. It's kind of like choosing to keep driving drunk because you don't want a bad hangover. Of course, just like with the vaccine, you're risking other peoples lives too.

Completely disagree currently given the low probability of reinfection, but to each his own.

[dankrutka]

Completely disagree currently given the low probability of reinfection, but to each his own.

Yes, you have temporary and weaker immunity if you were recently infected. Evidence suggests that this protection may only last a few months, but it could last longer. The vaccine offers stronger and longer protection for you and the larger community. So, yeah, if you just had COVID then you have maybe a 3-4 month window before you'd again be risking your own health and the health of others (due to re-infection, transmission, and the neverending pandemic that non-vaxxers will sustain).

The precise problem with to "each his own" is that you could end up harming someone else. If it truly was an individual decision then I would not be as worried about people not getting vaccinated. It truly would be their choice. I have no hard feelings, but I hope you at least consider some of the points in this thread. Cheers!

[PhiAlpha]

Yes, you have temporary and weaker immunity if you were recently infected. Evidence suggests that this protection may only last a few months, but it could last longer. The vaccine offers stronger and longer protection for you and the larger community. So, yeah, if you just had COVID then you have maybe a 3-4 month window before you'd again be risking your own health and the health of others (due to re-infection, transmission, and the neverending pandemic that non-vaxxers will sustain).

The precise problem with to "each his own" is that you could end up harming someone else. If it truly was an individual decision then I would not be as worried about people not getting vaccinated. It truly would be their choice. I have no hard feelings, but I hope you at least consider some of the points in this thread. Cheers!

Based on all the recent information I’ve seen, your immunity timeline is incorrect as most health sources are now reporting that immunity from having the disease 1) At minimum, differs little from that provided by the vaccine and 2) Lasts at least 8 months, possibly longer. To the point on the vaccine offering longer protection, there isn’t near enough data yet to prove that when mass vaccination only started back in Nov/Dec and the virus itself has only been around for 1.5 years or so. Pfizer and Moderna are already researching whether a booster will be necessary. Acting as if anything on either is even remotely close to conclusive or settled to further your point is a bit disingenuous. How could anything with this be settled science when it’s only been around since late 2019 and the vaccines since late last year (at least widely available). Research and information about Covid and the vaccines changes weekly as it has since last year. As with any other vaccine, sometimes they can provide stronger and longer immunity than the disease itself but that isn’t always the case.


The first article that comes up when googling Covid immunity: https://www.goodrx.com/blog/how-long...ed%20immunity.

Another more recent one: https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/ho...19-vaccination

Here’s an article suggesting that immunity could even last for years: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...ov-2-last/amp/

[PhiAlpha]

Based on all the recent information I’ve seen, your immunity timeline is incorrect as most health sources are now reporting that immunity from having the disease 1) At minimum, differs little from that provided by the vaccine and 2) Lasts at least 8 months, possibly longer. To the point on the vaccine offering longer protection, there isn’t near enough data yet to prove that when mass vaccination only started back in Nov/Dec and the virus itself has only been around for 1.5 years or so. Pfizer and Moderna are already researching whether a booster will be necessary. Acting as if anything on either is even remotely close to conclusive or settled to further your point is a bit disingenuous. How could anything with this be settled science when it’s only been around since late 2019 and the vaccines since late last year (at least widely available). Research and information about Covid and the vaccines changes weekly as it has since last year. As with any other vaccine, sometimes they can provide stronger and longer immunity than the disease itself but that isn’t always the case.


The first article that comes up when googling Covid immunity: https://www.goodrx.com/blog/how-long...ed%20immunity.

Another more recent one: https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/ho...19-vaccination

Here’s an article suggesting that immunity could even last for years: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...ov-2-last/amp/

All of that to say...there doesn't need to be a "my way or the highway and by the highway, I mean you purposely want to kill everyone in America by getting re-infected again and coughing directly in the mouths of peoples' unvaccinated grandparents" response to everything regarding Covid-19 here. There has been a tenancy over the last year on OKCTalk (and elsewhere) to immediately jump on anyone who even at minimum expresses concerns about or questions the past or present mainstream ideas regarding Covid, and single those people out by making veiled and not so veiled accusations of selfishness, stupidity, ignorance, etc. No one here knows everything about the virus, no one anywhere does...the information changes almost daily at times.

Repeating the "3-4 month immunity" estimate when that's been challenged and reevaluated over the last 5 months or seemingly claiming that the vaccine, beyond all reasonable doubt, provides longer and stronger immunity than actually having the virus when there has quite literally not been near enough time or cases to make anywhere near the amount of comparisons necessary to draw that conclusion, is a stretch to prove a point that can't be proven yet. Now it's being reported that natural immunity lasts 6-8 months or longer...how in the world can anyone here or elsewhere conclusively say that the vaccine can provide more protection than that when it's only been distributed on a wide scale since November or December (and really not made available to most of the population until the last 2 months or so) and when the known re-infection rate is extremely low? How do we know conclusively that you're any more or less likely to catch the virus after being vaccinated than be re-infected due to the failure of natural immunity using the same timeframes?

From the articles: (There are several hyperlinks to citied sources in the articles)

GoodRX: https://www.goodrx.com/blog/how-long...ped%20immunity.

On Natural Immunity:

Until recently, researchers thought that natural immunity to COVID-19 only lasted for about 2 to 3 months before fading. There were even reports of people getting sick twice. But as experts have learned more about COVID-19, they’ve found that immunity lasts much longer than that.One recent study found that natural immunity is still present in people 8 months after they were infected. Another study noted that parts of the immune response of people who had COVID-19 are similar to those of people who were sick in the early 2000s with SARS (a virus very similar to the one that causes COVID-19). Because of this, some experts think natural immunity to the coronavirus might last for several years.
Unfortunately, it is too soon to tell how long natural immunity to COVID-19 will last. While the research coming out is promising, this virus hasn’t been around long enough to know for certain

On Vaccine Induced Immunity:
As mentioned earlier, some vaccine-induced immunity lasts for a long time and some does not. Everyone hopes the COVID-19 vaccines will provide long-lasting immunity. However, researchers don’t know if this will be the case. Some believe the vaccines currently available will provide protection for quite some time. Others think the immunity will wear off relatively quickly and require a shot every year.

Gavi Vaccine Alliance: https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/ho...19-vaccination

But when new vaccines are developed, it is only through ongoing wide-scale use that we can better understand their ability to prevent transmission and the duration of immunity. Because of this, it has been too soon to say exactly how long these COVID-19 vaccines will protect people for, and whether we might need a booster shot further down the line. However, now the first evidence is emerging
The good news is that there is reason to believe that immunity from COVID-19 vaccines will last at least longer than six months.

Natural immunity (i.e. immunity in people who have been infected with COVID-19) can last for up to eight months, according to research published in Science. Vaccine-derived immunity can sometimes be stronger and longer-lasting, but this is by no means always the case, and so with COVID-19 vaccines the jury is still out.

The researchers in Science add that although immune memory is what leads to long-term immunity, it’s hard to predict how long immunity will last because the exact mechanisms of protective immunity used by our bodies against SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19 are not yet known.


Both Pfizer and Moderna are currently exploring whether or not their vaccines will require boosters or genetic modifications to respond to emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants. In the meantime, while much of the world is yet to be vaccinated, the focus on getting vaccinations to everyone equitably should be our main focus.

Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johndra...h=152f3e842f37

A key unanswered question about Covid-19 is how long a person can expect to be immune after recovering from illness. Answering this question is crucial for understanding how extensive our vaccination programs must be to drive down transmission, planning for next year, and identifying long-term strategies for managing Covid-19. A new study suggests that the answer may be years, not months.
To be clear, the study actually establishes that protective immunity from prior infection by SARS-CoV-2 lasts at least seven months. (Note: this is similar to what we currently know about immunity conferred by vaccination with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.) It does not, however, establish exactly how long that immunity lasts. At the end of this post, I explain how we can extrapolate from their findings to find a (speculative) duration of 4.7 to 8.4 years.

So, to conclude, the study establishes that protective immunity from prior infection by SARS-CoV-2 is pretty robust, at least for seven months. It has not established how long that immunity lasts. However, we can make some rough calculations if we’re willing to go out on a limb and extrapolate. (Read the article for their methodology)

From this study, the protective effect is 0.841, the fraction that fails is around 0.05 or 0.10, and the study duration is 207 days, which gives a waning rate of 0.000328 to 0.000589. Taking the inverse gives a theoretical average time until immunity is lost of 1699 to 3053 days or 4.7 to 8.4 years. Interestingly, this appears to be about double that of other coronaviruses that circulate in people.

So all in all, this is good news. A long duration of natural immunity means that vaccination programs do not need to be sustained as intensely to drive down transmission, and lends some added flexibility to future planning and long-term management strategies for Covid-19.

So if you still haven't contracted Covid and/or you're high-risk...by all means get vaccinated. But if you've already had the virus, natural immunity allows for more options.

[dankrutka]

PhilAlpha, you are correct that there is a lot to learn about COVID. I’m not going to argue point by point. Immunity does last longer than 3-4 months for many people who had COVID, but I was not wrong. It’s been shorter for some people, which is all I said.

But, there is a scientific consensus (which you refer to as “mainstream”) that these vaccines are safe, recommended by all medical organizations even if you’ve had COVID, and not getting them increases risks to your health and others.

I don’t know you. And I’m not trying to cast moral judgment. But, I also can’t two-sides something to assuage your own feelings on this. Theres no credible scientific argument for not getting the vaccines. But it is your choice not to do it.

[David]

Ohio is trying something interesting, https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/st...97174014332929

Two weeks from tonight on May 26th, we will announce a winner of a separate drawing for adults who have received at least their first dose of the vaccine. This announcement will occur each Wednesday for five weeks, and the winner each Wednesday will receive one million dollars.

[dankrutka]

^^^
I was just going to post that. This does not feel right, but I guess we’ll see if it works.

[jerrywall]

I expect it will be effective, considering the lines I've seen when the powerball gets up there... and it is the type of thing that will appeal to the right demographic.

[BDP]

All of that to say...there doesn't need to be a "my way or the highway and by the highway, I mean you purposely want to kill everyone in America by getting re-infected again and coughing directly in the mouths of peoples' unvaccinated grandparents" response to everything regarding Covid-19 here.

I appreciate hyperbole and I hope that's what you were going for here, but I don't think anyone has actually been saying that, mainly because that's a complete misrepresentation of how the virus is spread. If that's what it took to spread it to grandparents, then much much less Americans would have lost their grandparents, or other family members, to COVID over the last year.

[BDP]

Ohio is trying something interesting, https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/st...97174014332929

Nothing more American than that:

Care about your fellow citizens to maybe win a chance to be a millionaire!

lol

I guess if that's what it takes...

The vaccines have electrolytes!!!!

[PhiAlpha]

I appreciate hyperbole and I hope that's what you were going for here, but I don't think anyone has actually been saying that, mainly because that's a complete misrepresentation of how the virus is spread. If that's what it took to spread it to grandparents, then much much less Americans would have lost their grandparents, or other family members, to COVID over the last year.

Yes, it was absolutely sarcasm/hyperbole lol.

[Urbanized]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/h...uper-spreaders

[Pete]

Oklahoma now #39 (and dropping) in terms of doses per capita.

Only states worse (in order):

Indiana
West Virginia
South Carolina
Tennessee
Georgia
Idaho
Wyoming
Arkansas
Louisiana
Alabama
Mississippi


https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations