Man detains black delivery driver in OKC

[Pete]

It has to be said that in the modern age, not only do things like now get recorded and made accessible to all, but the resulting backlash exacts its own type of punishment.

Sometimes that can be extreme, but at the very least it serves as a deterrent for anyone who wants to take the law into their own hands and/or mistreat others.

Often social pressure is what changes behavior, not just the courts and laws.

[mugofbeer]

Several lawyers I was with the other day were actually discussing this case and all thought there is very little chance he'd be charged with a crime and all said they'd love to take it to court and felt they'd win if representing the home owner in criminal court. They felt the chances of a civil filing were much better, and only because lawyers are already encouraging the driver to file. I personally think, that while his conduct is embarrassing, out of line and says a lot about him as a person, the law is still broad enough and his actions and words restrained enough that I imagine the law still gives him protection and at least an arguable defense in criminal or civil court. Would be interesting to see play out. *I'm so ready for the court to be open again to the public.

I'm no lawyer but even if it just drags the "kidnappers" through the mud in court, the more l read about the case the more I realize something has to be done to stop this behavior. Unless there are circumstances l have not seen, it's a clear case of racism and false imprisonment.

[BBatesokc]

I'm no lawyer but even if it just drags the "kidnappers" through the mud in court, the more l read about the case the more I realize something has to be done to stop this behavior. Unless there are circumstances l have not seen, it's a clear case of racism and false imprisonment.

"Racism" - what exactly is your measure of "racism"? Apparently if it involves a white person and a black person, then that automatically equates to racism. This, even though the jerk homeowner never once mentions race or anything stereotypical or remotely close to profiling based on race. The driver doesn't even mention race until the entire thing is over and the media spotlight is on him. I do commend the driver for how he handled the situation while being confronted by the jerk neighbor. Even the driver admitted he himself could have handled the situation differently and a little better. Regardless, he did just great and the neighbor looks like the ass he is. I just didn't see racism.

You claim it's a clear case of "false imprisonment" - do you even know if that specific law exists in Oklahoma and if so, what the elements of that crime are? If not (and I mean, before you go Googling it) then what are you basing this clarity on? TV shows? Popular mob mentality? What?

The customer homeowner even said this particular neighbor can be "overprotective of the neighborhood." So, this was not so out of the ordinary for this home owner. Nothing was said about him overreacting regularly based on race. He seems like just a jerk nosey neighbor.

[catch22]

We certainly need a lawyer to chime in on what rights the HOA actually have to stop and interrogate people within the neighborhood. Technically the HOA owns the right of way in the neighborhood so it is private property... but does that equate to legally being able to stop someone?

[Bill Robertson]

While part of my mind goes straight to racism another part goes to really organized HOAs, especially those in gated communities having their fair share of zealots. And it’s not new. In my 20s to early 30s, ‘77 to about ‘93 or ‘94 I was a residential electrician that specialized in service work. I’m blessed with an ability to figure out why things that should work don’t and how ti fix them. There were a few gated communities that I hated getting sent to because we almost always got hassled by someone thinking we shouldn’t be there. And at that time I was a skinny, geeky white guy.

[mugofbeer]

"Racism" - what exactly is your measure of "racism"? Apparently if it involves a white person and a black person, then that automatically equates to racism. This, even though the jerk homeowner never once mentions race or anything stereotypical or remotely close to profiling based on race. The driver doesn't even mention race until the entire thing is over and the media spotlight is on him. I do commend the driver for how he handled the situation while being confronted by the jerk neighbor. Even the driver admitted he himself could have handled the situation differently and a little better. Regardless, he did just great and the neighbor looks like the ass he is. I just didn't see racism.

You claim it's a clear case of "false imprisonment" - do you even know if that specific law exists in Oklahoma and if so, what the elements of that crime are? If not (and I mean, before you go Googling it) then what are you basing this clarity on? TV shows? Popular mob mentality? What?

The customer homeowner even said this particular neighbor can be "overprotective of the neighborhood." So, this was not so out of the ordinary for this home owner. Nothing was said about him overreacting regularly based on race. He seems like just a jerk nosey neighbor.

Chill out bbates! First, l said l was no lawyer. Second, you are burying your head in the sand if you think this would have happened if the delivery guy was white. Third, for someone so involved in sexual crimes, l'm quite suprised to see you make this defense.

Whether racist words were spoken or not, and unless there are details that have not been reported, the delivery man was stopped because he was not a white man.

Look at my posting history. I'm the last person in the world to cry racism or sexism or snowflakism. Plain and simple, if the delivery guy was prevented from leaving and the HO assn. guy had what appears to be no evidence or authority of anything to detain the delivery guy and prevented him from leaving, that's the textbook definition. Now, if there are more nuances than that I'll leave it to the courts.

[BBatesokc]

Chill out bbates! First, l said l was no lawyer. Second, you are burying your head in the sand if you think this would have happened if the delivery guy was white. Third, for someone so involved in sexual crimes, l'm quite suprised to see you make this defense.

Whether racist words were spoken or not, and unless there are details that have not been reported, the delivery man was stopped because he was not a white man.

Look at my posting history. I'm the last person in the world to cry racism or sexism or snowflakism. Plain and simple, if the delivery guy was prevented from leaving and the HO assn. guy had what appears to be no evidence or authority of anything to detain the delivery guy and prevented him from leaving, that's the textbook definition. Now, if there are more nuances than that I'll leave it to the courts.

I honestly don't see where I'm the one who needs to "Chill Out." Calling someone racist is pretty serious and can have a lot of consequences. As such, it shouldn't be taken lightly and should at least be backed up with real evidence.

This is NOT real evidence.....

"...burying your head in the sand if you think this would have happened if the delivery guy was white."

" ...the delivery man was stopped because he was not a white man."

Please feel free to clarify how your apparent definition of racism consists of anything more than; if a white individual is a jerk to a minority, then that makes them racist. Do you really not think that some people are just like that with most everyone (or at least those they see as subordinates), regardless of race? Do you believe the reverse to be true? Any time a minority is a jerk to a caucasian, then that minority is a racist? Or, do you only apply that logic to one race? And if so, then what does that make you?

[soonerguru]

Those racist racists were obviously racist with their racist actions. And they should be in jail. If it had been a white delivery driver being prevented from leaving a black neighborhood by black people the black people would have been taken to jail.

That angry mofo was dripping with fear of a black man in a truck. Anyone who goes out of their way to move into a gated community is probably riding on a bit of fear.

[mugofbeer]

I honestly don't see where I'm the one who needs to "Chill Out." Calling someone racist is pretty serious and can have a lot of consequences. As such, it shouldn't be taken lightly and should at least be backed up with real evidence.

This is NOT real evidence.....

"...burying your head in the sand if you think this would have happened if the delivery guy was white."

" ...the delivery man was stopped because he was not a white man."

Please feel free to clarify how your apparent definition of racism consists of anything more than; if a white individual is a jerk to a minority, then that makes them racist. Do you really not think that some people are just like that with most everyone (or at least those they see as subordinates), regardless of race? Do you believe the reverse to be true? Any time a minority is a jerk to a caucasian, then that minority is a racist? Or, do you only apply that logic to one race? And if so, then what does that make you?

OK, first, I have in no way made any personal comments about you. You are going way out of line to do it to me. So cool it.

No, I don't believe the HO Assn. person would have detained a white man who was in, what I read was, a marked delivery van. Unless I have missed something about the situation, he profiled the delivery guy. Stopping the van, asking his intentions (or not stopping him at all and just following the delivery guy), then following him to the residence he was supposed to go to would have been the appropriate action, even for an aggressive watch person. Never, EVER, should the driver have been detained in any way.

Look, I'm the guy who was chastised on here for defending the OU Professors who dared to utter the "n" word as part of their classroom teaching so I'm not some woke, hair-bunned, social perfectionist out labeling everyone who doesn't meet my standards. There are some situations that just are what they appear to be.

[BoulderSooner]

Anyone who goes out of their way to move into a gated community is probably riding on a bit of fear.

generalize much

[Brad72]

I honestly don't see where I'm the one who needs to "Chill Out." Calling someone racist is pretty serious and can have a lot of consequences. As such, it shouldn't be taken lightly and should at least be backed up with real evidence.

This is NOT real evidence.....

"...burying your head in the sand if you think this would have happened if the delivery guy was white."

" ...the delivery man was stopped because he was not a white man."

Please feel free to clarify how your apparent definition of racism consists of anything more than; if a white individual is a jerk to a minority, then that makes them racist. Do you really not think that some people are just like that with most everyone (or at least those they see as subordinates), regardless of race? Do you believe the reverse to be true? Any time a minority is a jerk to a caucasian, then that minority is a racist? Or, do you only apply that logic to one race? And if so, then what does that make you?

Well, I live in a gated neighborhood, so I take a bit of offense to that. I didn't build the gate. It was here when we fell in love with our house. I like that it keeps the door-to-door solicitors away. I guess I've found yet another thread on this forum where it's acceptable to use bullying and belittling to try and make a, albeit blunt, point. I've also experienced HOA members that were as zealous as this man. I don't know that I ever considered them racist. But I did consider them annoying.

[Pete]

I guess I've found yet another thread on this forum where it's acceptable to use bullying and belittling to try and make a, albeit blunt, point. .

It's called debate and if you don't want anyone else to comment on your posts and opinions then a discussion forum is probably not the place for you.

If you are going to keep bitching about this site, the choice of whether you post here or not is not going to be yours to make.

[Brad72]

It's called debate and if you don't want anyone else to comment on your posts and opinions then a discussion forum is probably not the place for you.

If you are going to keep bitching about this site, the choice of whether you post here or not is not going to be yours to make.

So claiming everyone who lives in a gated neighborhood is riding on a bit of fear is debate? Calling people ignorant in other threads is debate? Not the way I was raised it wasn't. Plus, why is a conversation suddenly a debate? Why can it not just be a civil conversation? I never said I didn't want anyone else to comment. It's pretty clear I'm commenting on other's posts. I'm here to discuss in this discussion forum, but not to be talked down to.

[Pete]

So claiming everyone who lives in a gated neighborhood is riding on a bit of fear is debate? Calling people ignorant in other threads is debate? Not the way I was raised it wasn't. Plus, why is a conversation suddenly a debate? Why can it not just be a civil conversation? I never said I didn't want anyone else to comment. It's pretty clear I'm commenting on other's posts. I'm here to discuss in this discussion forum, but not to be talked down to.

There is a 'report' button on every post. If there are personal attacks, which is against our policy, report them.

But if people are merely disagreeing with you and you don't like that, tough toenails.

I read most the posts here and you have said some controversial things and there was a predictable counter response. If you just want an echo chamber where everyone has the same, extreme point of view, there are plenty of other places on the Internet.

[Brad72]

There is a 'report' button on every post. If there are personal attacks, which is against our policy, report them.

But if people are merely disagreeing with you and you don't like that, tough toenails.

I read most the posts here and you have said some controversial things and there was a predictable counter response. If you just want an echo chamber where everyone has the same, extreme point of view, there are plenty of other places on the Internet.

How in the world is my comment an extreme point of view? I merely said people who live in a gated neighborhood are not all doing it out of fear and that I've experience over zealous HOA members that I didn't think were racist. THAT is an extreme point of view to you?

[Pete]

How in the world is my comment an extreme point of view? I merely said people who live in a gated neighborhood are not all doing it out of fear and that I've experience over zealous HOA members that I didn't think were racist. THAT is an extreme point of view to you?

I'm not talking about this particular post and neither were you with your constant references to 'bullying'.

[Brad72]

I'm not talking about this particular post and neither were you with your constant references to 'bullying'.

Then shouldn't you have addressed it in the appropriate post or thread? And actually I was referencing it in this thread. I even pointed out what comment I thought was bullying. In fact, didn't another member call out the same comment? Why was that comment not met with "tough toenails." I'm a big boy. I can handle the good old boys club that sticks together.

[GoGators]

Maybe the gates were built to protect the general public from the people who live inside?