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  1. #1

    Default Over the air TV and sub-channels

    I have spent my whole life as a fan of the business of television. Noticing the recent additions of digital sub-channels to KSBI-52, I am wondering what caused the about face from Griffin Communications regarding them? When Griffin bought KSBI, they immediately dropped their sub-channel, which was THIS TV. There was a quote from the general manager, which was along the lines of "Nobody watches those channels-it isn't worth the effort". In October 2018, Griffin added 4 sub-channels to KSBI, all of which are provided by Scripps television. I am assuming they were negotiated as a part of Griffin buying the Scripps radio stations in Tulsa a few months ago.

    Now, Griffin is doing something with KWTV. They are running a "test" on 9.3 Over The Air, and running PSA's about rescanning your TV before the end of November. I'm guessing it is not a big deal, just has something to do with a frequency change for KWTV. And since the old fashioned channel numbers don't really match up in our digital age, I think it is related to that. But, could it mean Griffin is going to broadcast more sub-channels?

    And could it mean local, Over The Air broadcasters are beginning to understand that "cord cutting" could result in gaining more eyeballs to their product than ever before?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    It is very very much a big deal...and yet also not. For those who do get their signals OTA, it's rather important to do the re-scan when their area changes frequencies. Google "FCC repack". It doesn't imply more channels.

    ATSC 3, on the other hand...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Sub-channels are getting more eyes with cord cutters. I've also heard the use of sub channels by local broadcasters is a way to justify the bandwidth of the spectrum they are licensed from the FCC. Yes, they are going through a re-packing ordeal and shifting some of the channel locations on the spectrum around.

    One caveat is each "channel" is given the same bandwidth, the more sub-channels that are added, the less bandwidth available for each channel. This is why iON or KSBI for example with numerous sub channels, could appear "soft" on their main HD channel since its is being compressed to allow bandwidth to the sub channels.

    It was nice when KSBI was able to broadcast about half of the OKC Thunder games (in HD) the first season or two over the air, instead of having to pay for them through a cable/OTT box service.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Yeah, that "nobody watches those channels..." comment was a bit premature. MeTV (KOCO 5.2) showing classic television is very successful. As more people learn of the sub-channels, they will become viable advertising vehicles. I hear MeTV's sister channel, Decades, is coming soon here in OKC.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    I have re-scanned. 9.3 is gone, replaced with 9.1 and 9.2 twice.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    I don't know about any of you, but I've been glued most of the time to 4.3 (Justice Network). They have some really interesting shows on there.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Is there a website that shows which channels one could expect based on location in the state? I haven't re-scanned in a few years so maybe that is why I am missing some channels or some channels are not clear? For instance we only get KFOR and KWTV but no KOCO.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyShack View Post
    Is there a website that shows which channels one could expect based on location in the state? I haven't re-scanned in a few years so maybe that is why I am missing some channels or some channels are not clear? For instance we only get KFOR and KWTV but no KOCO.
    https://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

    Run that with your address

  9. #9

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyShack View Post
    Is there a website that shows which channels one could expect based on location in the state? I haven't re-scanned in a few years so maybe that is why I am missing some channels or some channels are not clear? For instance we only get KFOR and KWTV but no KOCO.
    Several. I prefer TV Fool, but there are others. The good ones will also tell you why KOCO (and probably KETA) can be a little more difficult. Spoiler alert: VHF.

    http://www.tvfool.com/

    https://antennaweb.org/

    https://www.tablotv.com/tools/

  10. Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    I mostly watch Grit and Charge.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Metv shows saved by the bell on sunday mornings for 2 hours. Its pretty great

    these channels are also on cox in the mid-200's

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Regarding 9.3 channel 9 has been running commercials to rescan in November (rescanoklahoma.com). Pretty sure it has to do with new standards reducing bandwidth per channel so more digital channels (which need less room than their analog counterparts) can fit in a station's spectrum. Also with these compressions of bandwidth, some stations are having to move their frequencies around a bit to get out of parts of the spectrum that have been auctioned off by the gov.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Quote Originally Posted by Dob Hooligan View Post
    They are running a "test" on 9.3 Over The Air, and running PSA's about rescanning your TV before the end of November.
    Last year the FCC did an auction to sell off the top portion of the UHF band (600 MHz). As a result, many stations had two options, 1) change frequencies, or 2) give up their licenses. Once the auction was over, the FCC had a scheduled repack, where stations that had to move frequencies, would make these changes in a phased approach. This repack affected more than 1,000 TV stations, 4 or 5 of them are Oklahoma City stations.

    KOPX channel 50 (virtual 62)
    KAUT channel 40 (virtual 43)
    KWTV channel 39 (virtual 9)

    Also a couple low power channels were affected. KWTV's virtual channel is 9 though they've been broadcasting on channel 39 since the digital conversion in 2009. As a result of this repack, they are moving to channel 25, while keeping their virtual channel 9. Don't worry, KOKH is really on channel 24, virtual 25. The channel 9.3 test pattern being seen the last week or so has been KWTV's new channel 25 transmitter being tested and their virtual channel has been mapped to 9.3. As of yesterday, they are running both transmitters simulcasting the signal but the remapping to 9.3 is not happening anymore. Some TVs are smart enough to recognize the two 9.1 and 9.2 channels and only show it once. Other TV's are not smart enough to notice it, so you will see two 9.1's and two 9.2's.

    Soon you'll be seeing KOPX making this change because it occupies channel 50 and T-Mobile has purchased massive amounts of spectrum in the 600 MHz band. Once they make the move, T-Mobile can turn on the 600 MHz in and around Oklahoma City, vastly improving their signals.

    As for the policy of secondary channels, I can only speculate that channel 21 (KTOU-LD) simulcast Grit TV and Laff TV and channel 43 (KAUT) simulcasts Escape. I don't know if this is a coincidence but both channel 21 and 43 are going to be affected by the repack this year. I don't know if channel 52 (KSBI) carrying these networks is trying to help those two TV stations while they make their changes or if they are going to stay on 52 permanently.

    One last thing...
    When I refer to virtual channels, I am referring to a technology called Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP). This is a technology that allows stations that have years of recognition on channel 4, 5, 9, 13, etc, the ability to fool your TV into thinking they are still on those channels. You may ask why don't they actually go back to those channels. During the 2009 digital conversion, TV stations were required to keep their old analog stations on the air for about a year or so at the same time the digital station was on the air. The FCC gave them a second channel to broadcast digital during this time and when their full conversion was done, they were forced to give up their original channels. From the users perspective, the stations remained on the same channel though only 13 (KETA) remains on their original channel.

    I hope this helps to explain what happened. Also, if I mis-spoke, and anyone notices it, by all means, correct me.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Quote Originally Posted by stile99 View Post
    Several. I prefer TV Fool, but there are others. The good ones will also tell you why KOCO (and probably KETA) can be a little more difficult. Spoiler alert: VHF.

    http://www.tvfool.com/

    https://antennaweb.org/

    https://www.tablotv.com/tools/
    Look for the app: Antenna Point. It shows where the towers are and how to adjust your antenna.
    The app NoCable lists the available channels and provides a TV Guide. Both are on the Google Play Store.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Wow, there are a lot of working parts to OTA TV. I find it fascinating how it all works together. Thanks for the info and the website mentions. Here's to a better cord-cutter experience for my household.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Wealth of info. in this thread that I had never much thought about.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Regarding KSBI (Griffin media) picking up the 4 networks; they are all owned by Scripps media. Amazed by how large Scripps is when I googled them. Scripps owns the NBC affiliate Tulsa, Channel 2. Earlier this year Griffin bought 3 radio stations in Tulsa from Scripps, and I'm guessing the two companies have developed a good business relationship.

    I think all 4 networks will be exclusive to KSBI by the first of the year. Hopefully we can more of my favorite old man channels, like Decades or Cozi.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Ok so what does this all mean to us that have older tv's and the converter box to watch them. I am not sure how to rescan. I had that done back when they were giving out the coupons for the boxes.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    The basic technology hasn't changed so you'll be fine once you can figure out how to scan.

    That said, whenever the government decides to push the somewhat recently approved ATSC 3.0 standard (could be never, could be five years, who knows), all existing tuners will cease to work and there will have to be another round of converter boxes.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blue Sky View Post
    I hear MeTV's sister channel, Decades,
    This sounds interesting. Have you heard anything about which station will pick them up? The new channel 42.1-.7 has a few channels on it but even with an outside antenna, it is very weak.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    The FCC voted to authorize ATSC 3.0 last November but from what I'm told, it will be a voluntary move and so it will be up to stations to decide if they want to take advantage. Maybe down the road, that will change. The most notable thing about ATSC 3.0 standard is that it is now possible to broadcast in 4K over the air.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    That's the most notable thing for you and I, but the reasons the stations will push and lobby for a government backed pushed of this is because they will finally be able to track what we're watching OTA which helps with advertisers and such.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    That's the most notable thing for you and I, but the reasons the stations will push and lobby for a government backed pushed of this is because they will finally be able to track what we're watching OTA which helps with advertisers and such.
    I don't doubt that.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    My hope is it is on 43.3 after Escape leaves. Kinda wondering about that because KAUT 43 and KFOR 4 are both owned by Tribune Media, who also owns the Antenna TV network. Although Decades is not a true competitor for Antenna TV, it is another Baby Boomer network. And it is a joint venture CBS and Weigel Broadcasting, who own Me-TV. I also think that is the reason that Cozi TV wasn't picked up in OKC. NBC Universal owns Cozi TV, but I think Tribune didn't want it on their stations because it was too close a competitor to Antenna TV.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Over the air TV and sub-channels

    Attachment 14986

    It looks like KWTV has now completed their setup and put the attached image on the new channel 25, virtual 9.1 and 9.2. Just in case that it doesn't come through, it is basically saying that starting November 19th, they will be on their new channel. I assume that after this date, they will turn off their channel 39 transmitter though there might be some overlap so those that miss out on the message, can find them.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2227.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	259.7 KB 
ID:	14987  
    Last edited by DCARS; 11-01-2018 at 12:45 PM. Reason: The image appeared twice

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