Widgets Magazine
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 77
  1. Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    What tax cuts ?

    My memory on the income tax cut, is that it would be a full one percent, implemented annually in 1/4% increments. To my memory, the last two 1/4% were never put in place. That is the only tax cut I know of.

    Property tax is going to differ from school district to district, but I'm paying three times higher property tax than 10 years ago. If the County Assessors are doing their jobs and reassessing property values annually, then that pretty much makes up for any inflation adjustment. Considering that on average across the state, 42% of school funding comes from property tax. And reassessing real estate values, does not take into account millage rate increases we have voted upon ourselves.

    And evidently the Assessors were doing their job, because we put a cap on how much they can increase our valuations in a one year span, something like 4% . We've probably not averaged a 2% inflation rate over the past 10 years, if we've had any inflation at all.

    We are spending more money today on education than we ever have. That's fact. Now the OPI wants to talk about whether appropriations by the legislature, then adjusted for inflation , are less than 10 years ago. But that ignores funding from sources other than appropriations. And the increase in the GPT tax alone, make up for their inflation adjustment.

    What is so hard about this ? I think some of you fellas, need to spend some time educating yourself on state spending.

    IMO, we need to change how we fund schools entirely. This old property tax system was put in place around statehood, because its in the constitution , but highly inefficient. I think schools should be funded mostly at the local level, with very little state funds. But changing that would be as difficult as rewriting the tax code.

    You fellas don't impress me much.
    https://okpolicy.org/the-cost-of-tax-cuts-in-oklahoma/

    "Due to these cuts, Oklahoma’s top income tax rate has been slashed by almost a fourth, from 6.65 percent before 2004 to 5 percent beginning in 2016. The annual revenue loss from these cuts has now reached $1.022 billion, according to an analysis prepared for OK Policy by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. If a pre-approved tax cut that could take effect as soon as 2018 lowers the top rate again, to 4.85 percent, it will add another $100 million to the annual cost of tax cuts."

    Later in the article, it clarifies that $356M of that $1.022B would've gone to education.

    I don't believe anybody is saying that the entire reason education funding sucks in OK is tax cuts, but it's a huge part of it. I do agree with you that the property-tax-funds-everything, can't-use-income-tax-for-certain-things mentality needs to change drastically.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    12,697
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post

    You fellas don't impress me much.
    Then what would impress you? For Republican legislators to resume cutting the state income tax, preferably in greater than 1/4% increments, and don't worry about any need to make up for lost revenues? They will eventually make a comeback. If you think education is over funded a downturn shouldn't matter much to you. And with you not worrying about fewer college students having a negative impact on Oklahoma economy, higher education funding cuts will be appropriate.

  3. #53

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    All of that totally ignores the economic downturn from 2009 to 2017. It all sounds good, but doesn't say a thing about the price of oil crashing in 2014, or the price of nat gas crashing in 2009. Or how many oil and gas workers have lost their jobs or have taken huge pay cuts. You can't quantify the impact of a tax cut without somehow factoring in your slower economy.

    I'm paying more tax now than in 2009. My property tax increases were far larger than that little income tax cut. And I greatly doubt that I'm the Lone Ranger. Which the brilliant analysis you've linked, totally ignores.

    Paying higher property tax and lower income tax, moves our tax code closer to Texas. And their tax code has proven to be very effective for attracting business. And its my understanding that their schools are mostly locally funded through very high property tax. That's why some of those high schools can build football stadiums that are better than small colleges, just to point out an obvious difference.

    And we have some districts in the state now, that are totally or almost completely funded by property tax. I believe Konawa is one of them, because they are a small district with an OG&E generating plant in the district. There are some in western Oklahoma, which has high land values, that are near totally funded from property tax. We attempt to equalize that with the state school funding formula. I think each district should be able to tax themselves to improve their schools without the state constitution telling them how to spend their money.

  4. #54

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Then what would impress you? For Republican legislators to resume cutting the state income tax, preferably in greater than 1/4% increments, and don't worry about any need to make up for lost revenues? They will eventually make a comeback. If you think education is over funded a downturn shouldn't matter much to you. And with you not worrying about fewer college students having a negative impact on Oklahoma economy, higher education funding cuts will be appropriate.
    Well, believing everything you read from the NPR, Vox, or some liberal think tank ................. doesn't impress me at all. Its being spun for political purposes.

    And college is not for every body. In fact, a degree may be as over valued as its ever been. Evidently, there's thousands of young people out there with huge student loans to pay off and a degree that's not gonna be worth much.

    I think that entire process is time to be rethought.

  5. #55

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Oklahoma’s economy actually was billed as recession proof during the economic downturn, IIRC, and didn’t experience the downtown until 2014 or so.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,326
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    Well, believing everything you read from the NPR, Vox, or some liberal think tank ................. doesn't impress me at all. Its being spun for political purposes.

    And college is not for every body. In fact, a degree may be as over valued as its ever been. Evidently, there's thousands of young people out there with huge student loans to pay off and a degree that's not gonna be worth much.

    I think that entire process is time to be rethought.
    LOL. You must be a tea party legislator. This is their logic... who needs a stinkin edukashun? Ignorance was good enuf for me in the good ole days, it's good enuf for our kids. Who needs to learn to think, reason, and explore? That just leads to lefty liberal elitist thinkin. An educated work-force... not needed for workin the fields and puttin mufflers on cars. It's Oklahoma, remember, we're OK.

    It is incomprehensible to me how anyone can defend Oklahoma's education system. It is historically bad and too many here fail to see a problem with that. Just keep taxes low. Well, guess what.... if you don't earn much money you don't have to pay much taxes. LOL.
    This is exactly why OK is consistently under performing.

  7. #57

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    in order to be a "Business Friendly" state, you need to have a population that can actually read.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    12,697
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    Well, believing everything you read from the NPR, Vox, or some liberal think tank ................. doesn't impress me at all. Its being spun for political purposes.

    And college is not for every body. In fact, a degree may be as over valued as its ever been. Evidently, there's thousands of young people out there with huge student loans to pay off and a degree that's not gonna be worth much.

    I think that entire process is time to be rethought.
    Then I hope Oklahoma Legislature is also increasing funding for State Career Tech. Training it does is sometimes needed for jobs at new manufacturing plants. Learning a trade skill is still very much needed.

  9. Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    ...

    And college is not for every body. In fact, a degree may be as over valued as its ever been. Evidently, there's thousands of young people out there with huge student loans to pay off and a degree that's not gonna be worth much.

    I think that entire process is time to be rethought.
    I do agree with you here, have said that not everybody needs to go to college for years now. Some people just aren't cut out for college-type classes/careers, for many reasons. Trade/vocational schools need to not be looked down upon, and college degrees are not the end-all, be-all means to success. The number being thrown around is $1.5 trillion in current student debt, and that's absolutely ridiculous. If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably still get my degree, but maybe not in today's world because of the insane cost of higher education. I went to CSU (now UCO) from 83-89, was on a scholarship for my first year, paid my own way the 2nd year, and middle of my junior year I got on the co-op education program with the DoD and they paid for all my school from then on out, so I had no debt when I graduated. I'd have loved to work with wood/houses/buildings in some fashion (not plumbing) instead of waggling my fingers over a keyboard to make magic happen, and that would've probably ended up making me as much money as I do now. I believe that in Europe they do assessments and help students figure out which path to go down, not sure they do that as much here, but schooling in Europe seems to be smarter and more well-done than it is here in a lot of ways.

  10. #60

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    I think for most kids going to a traditional 4-year college right after high school is not the best option unless your going into a field that you know will take up 4+ years of your life in education like a doctor or lawyer. You still have your physical health at that age and should do more of the manual labor at that point in your life. Probably more mentally happier too instead of being tied to a desk plus you are working to help pay for a college education.

    I hate to say this but, American college educated are over valued in this current global economy. Why would an employer want to hire a worker who needs a higher salary because of their student loan debt when they can hire someone from India or China who does it for far less.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,326
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    I do agree with you here, have said that not everybody needs to go to college for years now. Some people just aren't cut out for college-type classes/careers, for many reasons. Trade/vocational schools need to not be looked down upon, and college degrees are not the end-all, be-all means to success. The number being thrown around is $1.5 trillion in current student debt, and that's absolutely ridiculous. If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably still get my degree, but maybe not in today's world because of the insane cost of higher education. I went to CSU (now UCO) from 83-89, was on a scholarship for my first year, paid my own way the 2nd year, and middle of my junior year I got on the co-op education program with the DoD and they paid for all my school from then on out, so I had no debt when I graduated. I'd have loved to work with wood/houses/buildings in some fashion (not plumbing) instead of waggling my fingers over a keyboard to make magic happen, and that would've probably ended up making me as much money as I do now. I believe that in Europe they do assessments and help students figure out which path to go down, not sure they do that as much here, but schooling in Europe seems to be smarter and more well-done than it is here in a lot of ways.
    Nobody says everyone needs to go to college. But OK is near the bottom % of those that do and those that actually complete. This idea that anyone is claiming everyone needs to be a Rhodes Scholar is absurd. In OK we can't attract tech or other high paying jobs to the state because we don't have an available pool of workers educated enough to do it. Notice I didn't say SMART enough. If someone wants to drive a truck or hoe a row of vegetables, more power to them. But if a kid hasn't received a quality education by the time they are 20, it's darn hard for them to overcome it and go get a job as an engineer. We are limiting too many of our kids who would rather do something differently than labor for the man and are capable of doing more. We expect too little and yet we can't even reach that bar.

  12. Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Nobody says everyone needs to go to college. But OK is near the bottom % of those that do and those that actually complete. This idea that anyone is claiming everyone needs to be a Rhodes Scholar is absurd. In OK we can't attract tech or other high paying jobs to the state because we don't have an available pool of workers educated enough to do it. Notice I didn't say SMART enough. If someone wants to drive a truck or hoe a row of vegetables, more power to them. But if a kid hasn't received a quality education by the time they are 20, it's darn hard for them to overcome it and go get a job as an engineer. We are limiting too many of our kids who would rather do something differently than labor for the man and are capable of doing more. We expect too little and yet we can't even reach that bar.
    I agree, our K-12 needs to be better, and during that K-12 time, paths need to be figured out - is this kid better at college-type things and they should be directed that-a-way, or are they better suited to a trade, and if so, then send them down that path. Not sure how it works now, but seems like there wasn't much direction or counseling back when I went, kids were kinda on their own, and I knew what way I was going by myself (always been very self-directed), and had the grades/ability to go to college, so I did. Others aren't so lucky and need direction, and as I said, I believe European countries do that and we should do better at it here in America (and specifically OK).

  13. #63
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,326
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    I agree, our K-12 needs to be better, and during that K-12 time, paths need to be figured out - is this kid better at college-type things and they should be directed that-a-way, or are they better suited to a trade, and if so, then send them down that path. Not sure how it works now, but seems like there wasn't much direction or counseling back when I went, kids were kinda on their own, and I knew what way I was going by myself (always been very self-directed), and had the grades/ability to go to college, so I did. Others aren't so lucky and need direction, and as I said, I believe European countries do that and we should do better at it here in America (and specifically OK).
    So what happened to parents giving good advice? What happened to parents encouraging their kids to get educated to make the best possible life for themselves and giving them the most options? The government shouldn’t know more about your kids and your family’s ambitions and pride than the parents. When parents don’t care or don’t get involved with their kids then we get what we have. It’s easier to give your kids a pass than to give them ambition, courage and drive.

  14. #64

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    So what happened to parents giving good advice? What happened to parents encouraging their kids to get educated to make the best possible life for themselves and giving them the most options? The government shouldn’t know more about your kids and your family’s ambitions and pride than the parents. When parents don’t care or don’t get involved with their kids then we get what we have. It’s easier to give your kids a pass than to give them ambition, courage and drive.
    Oklahoma ranks first in the nation for incarcerated mothers. Top Five for teen pregnancy ages 15-19. These parents might have other things on their plate, so maybe the government should know more than the parents. That's how things like HeadStart get funded.

  15. Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    So what happened to parents giving good advice? What happened to parents encouraging their kids to get educated to make the best possible life for themselves and giving them the most options? The government shouldn’t know more about your kids and your family’s ambitions and pride than the parents. When parents don’t care or don’t get involved with their kids then we get what we have. It’s easier to give your kids a pass than to give them ambition, courage and drive.
    Dunno, we don't have kids, and my parents just pretty much let me and my brother be, because we pretty much knew what our situation was and where we wanted to go, but yeah, *everybody* needs to be involved in kids' lives/education (parents, teachers, government, counselors, kids). Edmond Hausfrau does have a good point, also.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,326
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Hausfrau View Post
    Oklahoma ranks first in the nation for incarcerated mothers. Top Five for teen pregnancy ages 15-19. These parents might have other things on their plate, so maybe the government should know more than the parents. That's how things like HeadStart get funded.
    But this is a red red state and red doesn’t believe in social programs for help. They also don’t trust the govt. they’d rather be ignorant and poor

  17. #67
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    12,697
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    But this is a red red state and red doesn’t believe in social programs for help. They also don’t trust the govt. they’d rather be ignorant and poor
    That is most applicable to the long time declining small towns in Oklahoma, which don't have much going for them anyway. It might help the rest of the state to not have any leading legislators from there.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    12,697
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    https://okpolicy.org/another-year-go...uts-education/

    https://okpolicy.org/report-despite-...till-way-down/

    First two results from a simple google search: Oklahoma education funding.
    RedDollar brought up that Oklahoma has $24 billion to work with, a huge amount, yet, state departments are underfunded. A Logan County Commissioner I know of complained about lack of funding for the roads in his district with legislators not paying attention to him. It's 3rd world like with old bridges still being used built during the days of wagons and tin lizzies. If I'm right, the many millions swiped from the State Road and Bridge Fund are far from restored. As I recall, Republicans demanded an audit to find out why so many millions were missing from that fund. As it turned out, it was revealed Republicans had to swipe from it to balance the state budget. With the state obviously so poorly run, I don't think legislators deserve such a huge raise.

  19. #69

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    ^^^^ I’m torn on the raises for legislators. On one hand Oklahoma has so much potential that’s been hindered by many of the far right conservative policies and the other there has been some good progress made in Oklahoma despite all of that.

    I may be in the minority here, but I really think we should be paying our “public servants” more where those without means can actually live off of this job. We treat the people who guide the future of our community like volunteers doing it for fun yet it is a full time and a very important one at that. The only people that seem to be able to make things work are those who are rich or those willing to be bought out and paid for by special interests.

  20. #70

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    ^^^^ I’m torn on the raises for legislators. On one hand Oklahoma has so much potential that’s been hindered by many of the far right conservative policies and the other there has been some good progress made in Oklahoma despite all of that.

    I may be in the minority here, but I really think we should be paying our “public servants” more where those without means can actually live off of this job. We treat the people who guide the future of our community like volunteers doing it for fun yet it is a full time and a very important one at that. The only people that seem to be able to make things work are those who are rich or those willing to be bought out and paid for by special interests.

  21. Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    But this is a red red state and red doesnÂ’t believe in social programs for help. They also donÂ’t trust the govt. theyÂ’d rather be ignorant and poor
    I really don't agree with what was said here. Conservatives believe in social programs, we just don't put up with wasteful spending, and social programs are an easy channel for inflated budgets or mismanagement of funds. Oklahoma has a money management problem, and this has come up many times in the past where contractors for the state are overpaid, money used for personal expenses. The list goes on and on.

    America by and large has gotten into a very dangerous habit of tribalizing political parties and using that as grounds for empty, useless debates that politicize issues such as education, mental health and medicare. All I hear is red this, blue that, right wing, hard left. It's all talk and no action. The problem is - Republican or Democrat - we don't hold our lawmakers accountable. We're too busy attacking the opposite party. It's a symptom of a bigger problem and its evidence of a society in decay.

    Until this country wises up and starts exercising even a 10th of the maturity it used to have, then these problems will just continue to quantify. Too many politicians anymore are too absorbed in their careers. Don't think for a second they actually give a crap about the people in their district.

    This thread is really about a topic that isn't worth discussion. Comparing OKC growth to Dallas growth... Dallas is an entirely different animal. In the 1980s, when oil went bust, Texas went pro-business. Oklahoma did not. Instead, Oklahoma simply kept raising taxes to do nothing but keep the lights on in state government and did little or nothing to attract new business. Population in Texas continued to grow, Oklahoma as a whole lost population between 1982 and 1989 and struggled throughout the 1990s. Can't change history.
    Continue the Renaissance!!!

  22. #72
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    12,697
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by okcpulse View Post

    This thread is really about a topic that isn't worth discussion. Comparing OKC growth to Dallas growth... Dallas is an entirely different animal. In the 1980s, when oil went bust, Texas went pro-business. Oklahoma did not. Instead, Oklahoma simply kept raising taxes to do nothing but keep the lights on in state government and did little or nothing to attract new business. Population in Texas continued to grow, Oklahoma as a whole lost population between 1982 and 1989 and struggled throughout the 1990s. Can't change history.
    But beginning under Gov. Keating in the 1990s income tax got cut. Also a new law was voted upon making tax hikes in the state legislature considerably more difficult to do. Maybe doing all that helped Oklahoma City add on population at a faster rate than Dallas since 2000. On the other hand, Ft. Worth has been growing faster than OKC.

  23. #73

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    You couldn't pay me $1MM to go live in Dallas. It would take at least $10MM or more + a helicopter with a pilot available 24/7. I can't believe folks actually want to live down there, especially places like Denton. Lol

  24. #74

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Dallas traffic is a breeze compared to other major American cities.

  25. #75

    Default Re: OKC vs Dallas growth

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck5815 View Post
    You couldn't pay me $1MM to go live in Dallas. It would take at least $10MM or more + a helicopter with a pilot available 24/7. I can't believe folks actually want to live down there, especially places like Denton. Lol
    Depends on where you're working. Denton is a great town in its own right, but living in Denton and commuting to Dallas sounds like the worst thing in the world.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Population Growth for OKC
    By Naptown12713 in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 1680
    Last Post: 09-30-2019, 02:22 AM
  2. No Growth - Bad Growth - Smart Growth
    By citizen in forum Yukon/Mustang/El Reno
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-07-2015, 12:02 PM
  3. Historical: OKC vs. Dallas Growth
    By dismayed in forum Current Events & Open Topic
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-27-2007, 03:14 PM
  4. OKC Income growth
    By Karried in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-14-2007, 06:27 PM
  5. GSM Growth is Incredible
    By upisgr8 in forum Current Events & Open Topic
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-18-2006, 10:45 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO