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Thread: Aquarium

  1. #126

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    the "open process" (that was not really open at all) fully supressed this project a long time ago so it never actually got a fair shake

    i suspect because if given a proper presentation by the zoo director would have become a must have on the MAPS 4 list ..
    Maybe. But the actual Zoo Board itself could have taken this further. Never rely on a city employee (this guy is a city employee right?) to be your advocate to your boss. Look, I went to nearly all of the MAPS meetings and sat in on building estimation meetings for both transit and the animal shelter because I didn't trust city staff to take their boss on and tell it like it is. The Zoo Board should have taken steps outside of city employees. Also, isn't the COOP site a big brownfield? Aren't there some environmental issues there as well?

  2. #127

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Pioneer View Post
    Maybe. But the actual Zoo Board itself could have taken this further.
    The zoo is a city trust and there are tons of political issues with them pushing for anything, especially after the powers that be tell you 'no'.

  3. #128

    Default Re: Aquarium

    How about we scrap the Fair Arena and soccer stadium and put that money into an Aquarium that the public seems to be behind. And yes,this should be a major downtown attraction. Put that on the ballot and watch MAPS pass easily. This is something that families all over the area can take their kids to and use.

  4. Default Re: Aquarium

    When people are more excited for housing for exotic fish than for actual humans...

  5. Default Re: Aquarium

    Personally, I think it would be a big missed opportunity to not have it downtown. We need more attractions like this to continue driving growth with a critical mass in the core. Having it as an extension on the zoo itself would do hardly anything more for growth than any other addition to the zoo itself.

  6. #131

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by jdg78 View Post
    Here is another perspective. I like the aquarium idea but not as part of the COOP. It is stupid to think we should dump a 150 million dollars subsidy into an area that the developer canít figure out what to do with it. Also, your crazy to think the renderings beside the aquarium itself would ever come to fruition.

    The COOP has failed to realistically develop this site on their own due to unrealistic financial expectations. A public subsidy should not even be part of the discussion. The COOP and lumber yard owners would disproportionately benefit from this investment.

    How bout we put it on the Zoo Amp site? Zoo owns the land. Don Hays presentation to council was a joke. The whole thing is a sham to help make the COOP more marketable. You know they will be asking millions for the dirt. Just like they did when the convention center was being considered at the COOP. This is MAPS for millionaires! Joke.
    the zoo and the co op people have been in discussion about this project for well over a year one might think that is part of the delay of the development of that site ..

    also of course hays presentation about this project was a joke ... he is not the one who should have been presenting ..... the one that should have been "wasn't allowed"

  7. #132

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The zoo is a city trust and there are tons of political issues with them pushing for anything, especially after the powers that be tell you 'no'.
    Aren't they citizen appointees?

  8. #133

    Default Re: Aquarium

    https://www.okczoo.org/zoo-trust

    Don Kaspereit, Chairperson
    Darryl Schmidt, Vice Chairperson
    Kristi Mathis-Mikawa, Secretary
    Keith Peters, Assistant Secretary
    Cindy Batt
    Alice Pippin
    Nikki Nice, Ward 7 Councilwoman
    David Holt, Mayor
    Heather Ross, Surrogate to the Mayor
    Craig Freeman, City Manager
    Laura Johnson, Surrogate to City Manager

  9. #134

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Don’t care if the zoo and COOP have been in discussion for over a year. The fact of the matter is the aquarium takes up only a small portion of the total site. As such, you now have the COOP potentially benefitting from both the soccer stadium and aquarium. That is potentially well over $200 million in PUBLIC assistance. They tried to fleece the city once by asking for over $75 million for the convention center land.

    Put the soccer stadium in Capitol Hill and the aquarium at the zoo or around the boathouses.

  10. #135

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
    When people are more excited for housing for exotic fish than for actual humans...
    MAPS has always been about big shiny things, which is why you are seeing this reaction.

  11. #136

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
    When people are more excited for housing for exotic fish than for actual humans...
    Would $150,000,000 be able to eliminate homelessness in Oklahoma City? During their proposal, the housing authority said it could leverage $400-600 million from a MAPS investment of $40-80 million.

  12. #137

    Default Re: Aquarium

    nevermind. previous comment summed up my thoughts better. lol

  13. #138

    Default Re: Aquarium

    If you think what this city needs is soccer stadium, a fancy fish bowl, or even another fair arena, you are simply not paying attention. It is well past time we spend some of this public money on the actual citizens who live here, every day, and have been brushed under a rug, or an overpass to be blunt. These vanity projects are fine from time to time, and yes, they help spur growth, if done properly. This halfassed proposal is not what we need to "sink MAPS4". This is a reminder that we can't just focus on fun things for the top 30% of income earners to enjoy on the weekends or when "Buffy" is in town for the reunion. We have an obligation to help all citizens in this city, and it is time to step up to that plate, and fund some of the human-centric programs that have fallen by the wayside.

  14. #139

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by checkthat View Post
    https://www.okczoo.org/zoo-trust

    Don Kaspereit, Chairperson
    Darryl Schmidt, Vice Chairperson
    Kristi Mathis-Mikawa, Secretary
    Keith Peters, Assistant Secretary
    Cindy Batt
    Alice Pippin
    Heather Ross, Surrogate to the Mayor
    So there are seven citizens here who could have forced this months ago. And isn't there some sort of quasi-foundation " Friends for the Zoo?" that has it's own committees? If any organization wanted to turn out the public, the zoo has kids in strollers, including my own. If they really wanted this they definitely handled it badly.

  15. #140

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantison View Post
    If you think what this city needs is soccer stadium, a fancy fish bowl, or even another fair arena, you are simply not paying attention. It is well past time we spend some of this public money on the actual citizens who live here, every day, and have been brushed under a rug, or an overpass to be blunt. These vanity projects are fine from time to time, and yes, they help spur growth, if done properly. This halfassed proposal is not what we need to "sink MAPS4". This is a reminder that we can't just focus on fun things for the top 30% of income earners to enjoy on the weekends or when "Buffy" is in town for the reunion. We have an obligation to help all citizens in this city, and it is time to step up to that plate, and fund some of the human-centric programs that have fallen by the wayside.
    we certionally don't need more public handouts ..

  16. #141

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Hahahahaha holt just killed maps4 and I don’t think he even realizes it yet. Voters will shoot it down out of spite, make them go back to the drawing board and add it.

  17. #142

    Default Re: Aquarium

    I'm only making this post because it seems every other member has logged in and made a comment. Good day.

  18. Default Re: Aquarium

    While I'm all for helping out our less fortunate citizens and will vote for MAPS4 to get things like streetlights, bike trails, sidewalks, Palomar, etc., that's completely *not* what MAPS is intended for, and I wish we could've found another way to pay for all those things I mentioned, but we can't, so we had to turn to MAPS. Here's what MAPS is about, from the city's website - "MAPS (Metropolitan Area Projects) is Oklahoma City's visionary capital improvement program for new and upgraded sports, recreation, entertainment, cultural and convention facilities."

  19. Default Re: Aquarium

    ITT: people making wildly hyperbolic statements about the success of the next MAPS.

  20. #145

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Pioneer View Post
    So there are seven citizens here who could have forced this months ago. And isn't there some sort of quasi-foundation " Friends for the Zoo?" that has it's own committees? If any organization wanted to turn out the public, the zoo has kids in strollers, including my own. If they really wanted this they definitely handled it badly.
    This.

    I'm sure those materials have been sitting around for months and could have been "reported" long ago. This smells highly of a) a last ditch hail mary to try and negate previous poor planning, b) a specifically-timed attempt to make the city council look as bad as possible, or more likely, a lot of both.

    Seems like a pretty petty way of going about it, and I say that as someone who would fully support this project (the aquarium and soccer stadium in the COOP is a no brainer) and thinks MAPS should continue to be primarily about shiny projects in our city center (with what I believe are other basic city services, currently being included in this MAPS, be funded through more traditional means (a pipe dream, I know)). Whomever decided to put this story out did it knowing full well the aquarium wasn't going to be included in MAPS and is trying to burn down the house because they couldn't get what they want.

    However, my guess is that this will have little effect on the outcome by the time we get around to vote, as I suspect the average voter will have a pretty short attention span when it comes to this "controversy" but welcome UP's thoughts on this as well.

  21. #146

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    Whomever decided to put this story out did it knowing full well the aquarium wasn't going to be included in MAPS and is trying to burn down the house because they couldn't get what they want.
    We sought out the people involved after they were not given the opportunity to present as part of the formal list of projects, and then only had a few minutes at the end of one very long meeting and only because of councilperson Nice.

    It wouldn't have been a story if the zoo director himself wasn't still keen on it.

    Nobody is trying to burn anything down, just trying to get exposure for a popular project.

  22. #147

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantison View Post
    If you think what this city needs is soccer stadium, a fancy fish bowl, or even another fair arena, you are simply not paying attention. It is well past time we spend some of this public money on the actual citizens who live here, every day, and have been brushed under a rug, or an overpass to be blunt. These vanity projects are fine from time to time, and yes, they help spur growth, if done properly. This halfassed proposal is not what we need to "sink MAPS4". This is a reminder that we can't just focus on fun things for the top 30% of income earners to enjoy on the weekends or when "Buffy" is in town for the reunion. We have an obligation to help all citizens in this city, and it is time to step up to that plate, and fund some of the human-centric programs that have fallen by the wayside.
    100% agree... but what if an aquarium that only uses 10% of the budget is the attraction that passes social service items? Maybe it’s not an either aquarium or social services, but instead the aquarium helps pass the social service items.

  23. #148
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    Default Re: Aquarium

    Perhaps the zoo after working on the idea for awhile has figured out it can't get money for the aquarium other ways and took a look at the M4 slate and decided maybe it would be more popular than some other things on it. The zoo may have preferred to do it alone but figures now that it can't.

    I know it is more fun to throw chum in the water for talk about all the nefarious conspiracy, corruption, and incompetence, but let's find out what the truth is behind their plans and timing of announcements. Then based on actual facts, criticize away.

  24. #149

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Also wanted to point out that all the way along the assumption was that the council would not vote on what will be included in MAPS 4 until September.

    Word got out that this got pushed up for a vote next Tuesday, so there was a small window of time to get this information out before the vote was taken.

    The last public meeting was just held on August 6th, which is when Nice finally got a small slot for this group to speak.

  25. #150

    Default Re: Aquarium

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I know it is more fun to throw chum in the water for talk about all the nefarious conspiracy, corruption, and incompetence, but let's find out what the truth is behind their plans and timing of announcements. Then based on actual facts, criticize away.
    Considering this was to be a transparent and public process, there are lots of questions that require answers before things get set in stone.

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