TRANSIT in OKC

[Ross MacLochness]

I predicted this response anyways and about the recent articles whining of the Sepulveda pass, they conveniently leave out the fact that a single lane in each direction was added to a road that needed 6 and there is defunct bottleneck at the 101. I already made this argument with GoGators about notoriously congested metros and the small addition of a single lane each way added. Shocker, every single road in this area is congested. Sepulveda, Beverly Glen, even local access roads like Roscomare Rd. I live in this in this area and am familiar with it.

I was basically being a smart ass by posting my comment and claiming the government said it so it must be true. Ironically, I was contradicting myself in doing so.

Induced demand didn't strike. Growth and congestion did. Calling it induced demand is a cop out. Why hasn't I-40 Crosstown become gridlock? Wouldn't induced demand cause that to happen? Or should we wait until growth adds more cars to the roads so you can use misnomers like induced demand?

adding that one lane cost them more than $1,000,000,000 thats one billion dollars. For what? How much would it cost do do the types of improvements you want to do? Surely there are more efficient options available.

[BDP]

@BDP, I don’t recall saying I didn’t read that article. Perhaps I got it confused as I googled a couple articles and speed read. The SLC one I read as it was posted on SSP and I was interested in it. Same with the Car and Driver article. I will respond to your other points in a bit. Ironically the freeways are clear so I’m heading to midtown to check out the new food hall if it’s open. Induced demand on my part

You didn't say you didn't read it. I didn't say that either. Ha.

Yes, induced demand. Big freeway made you hungry. Ha.

[GoGators]

This is such a sorry argument. No one would allow a two lane train track to be built through their neighborhood. Please and examples you give I can you just as many with freeways being built through neighborhoods. Infrastructure has to be built. If you can't handle it move away from the city. Lincoln BLVD isn't an 8 lane being built through Lincoln Terrace. Unfortunately for them or those who have a problem with it their housing development sits in an area where this infrastructure is needed. Plenty of housing additions where it isn't. The world isn't fair. Some housing additions will be closer to large infrastructure and some will be further away.

Haha do what? Ok I’ll play this logic. Life isn’t fair some neighborhood are closer to job centers than others. Either move closer to your job or stop crying about the commute. No one made anyone move to Logan county and work in Norman. If you can’t handle it move. Plenty of houses closer.

And in my “life isn’t fair” argument I’m not spending billions of dollars to make life not fair. I’m making life not fair for free.

[Plutonic Panda]

Haha do what? Ok I’ll play this logic. Life isn’t fair some neighborhood are closer to job centers than others. Either move closer to your job or stop crying about the commute. No one made anyone move to Logan county and work in Norman. If you can’t handle it move. Plenty of houses closer.

And in my “life isn’t fair” argument I’m not spending billions of dollars to make life not fair. I’m making life not fair for free.

The difference between my logic and yours is mine is reality and job centers exist far from their workers homes. Also life isn’t fair because these 8 lane roads were built through these neighborhoods. That’s the difference.

[OKC Guy]

Haha do what? Ok I’ll play this logic. Life isn’t fair some neighborhood are closer to job centers than others. Either move closer to your job or stop crying about the commute. No one made anyone move to Logan county and work in Norman. If you can’t handle it move. Plenty of houses closer.

And in my “life isn’t fair” argument I’m not spending billions of dollars to make life not fair. I’m making life not fair for free.

You do realize companies would then just move to burbs to attract workers since most of the workers they need are not now nor ever living downtown.

Imagine a company saying they only hire if you live in a 2 mile radius of downtown lol. Or imagine if no roads to get workers downtown then they can’t find workers. I would bet over 90% of downtown workers live more than 2 miles from work and drive.

Business would die in downtown if no roads to get workers there. I would like to see someone name all these city utopias where its all walkable and no cars downtown 2 mile radius. Also, show me a large metro without a major interstate or road running thru it.

Roads are a necessity for all cities. We are late to the growth from small to large city so there should tons of examples of these perfect carless downtown cities to reference.

[GoGators]

The difference between my logic and yours is mine is reality and job centers exist far from their workers homes. Also life isn’t fair because these 8 lane roads were built through these neighborhoods. That’s the difference.

Yes, the 8 lane roads were built and yet the tears of the commuter still flow. It’s almost like the 8 lane roads didn’t solve the actual problem

[GoGators]

You do realize companies would then just move to burbs to attract workers since most of the workers they need are not now nor ever living downtown.

Imagine a company saying they only hire if you live in a 2 mile radius of downtown lol. Or imagine if no roads to get workers downtown then they can’t find workers. I would bet over 90% of downtown workers live more than 2 miles from work and drive.

Business would die in downtown if no roads to get workers there. I would like to see someone name all these city utopias where its all walkable and no cars downtown 2 mile radius. Also, show me a large metro without a major interstate or road running thru it.

Roads are a necessity for all cities. We are late to the growth from small to large city so there should tons of examples of these perfect carless downtown cities to reference.

Those are some great arguments against points that weren’t made by anyone. Good stuff.

Roads are necessary? Who knew?

[OKC Guy]

Those are some great arguments against points that weren’t made by anyone. Good stuff.

Roads are necessary? Who knew?

Its amazing how toxic you are to posters taking time out of their day to make a post. It seems when you don’t like the poster or info you attack the poster instead of having any dialogue. I’m sure it scares posters away why post here when this is the attitude of someone. Your last 3 replies to me have been nothing related to the topic and added zero to the conversation. Same as your replies to others I’ve noticed. If you don’t like the post then ignore it or add some value instead of constant attacks.

Try to engage posters with substance vice attacks or snarky remarks and maybe more will return to post here. Thats all I have to say about your reply.

[GoGators]

Its amazing how toxic you are to posters taking time out of their day to make a post. It seems when you don’t like the poster or info you attack the poster instead of having any dialogue. I’m sure it scares posters away why post here when this is the attitude of someone. Your last 3 replies to me have been nothing related to the topic and added zero to the conversation. Same as your replies to others I’ve noticed. If you don’t like the post then ignore it or add some value instead of constant attacks.

Try to engage posters with substance vice attacks or snarky remarks and maybe more will return to post here. Thats all I have to say about your reply.

I didn’t know how else to respond to the message. You took my post and Began with a laundry list of straw man arguments that had nothing to do with the conversation.

1.Imagine if a company only hired you if you lived within 2 miles. Why would that ever be a thing a company does? I’ve never once said anything about how companies should hire. This wouldn’t even be feasible for anything or anyone. No one has ever suggested such a thing so yes it’s easy to win that argument.

2)Business would die in downtown if there were no roads to ge people there. Again have no idea who is making the argument. Any business would die if there were literally no access points to them.

3) roads are necessary for all cities. Yes road are necessary for every city.

Im not trying to be toxic but I would like to discuss topics that are being discussed. Not a bunch of straw men that no one has even brought up.

Me saying an 8 lane highway next to an important inner neighborhood is not me saying cities should blow up all roads and force employers to only hire people that live next door. This is the reason for my frustration.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes, the 8 lane roads were built and yet the tears of the commuter still flow. It’s almost like the 8 lane roads didn’t solve the actual problem

The trains were built and the tears of the pro mass transit still flow. It's almost like building train tracks didn't work.

[TheTravellers]

This is probably the best place to put this article, interesting take on things:

https://slate.com/technology/2019/10...-elevator.html

"Thinking about the future of transportation from the United States can sometimes feel like thinking about swimwear in Svalbard: There is little to see here (and hasn’t been in some time). China has laid down the world’s largest high-speed rail network in just two decades, quashing its high-polluting domestic air business. Congestion pricing has been rolled out in London and Singapore, making the downtowns more pleasant and walkable. Cycling has become a crucial transportation mode in places as varied as Shenzhen and Strasbourg. In the U.S., by contrast, travel by plane, train, bus, and foot is undoubtedly less pleasant than it was 50 years ago. "

"In November 2017, Waymo CEO John Krafcik said the subsidiary would be operating commercial taxis within months without a supervising driver. “Fully self-driving cars are here.” A year later, Waymo’s cars hit the road in Phoenix—timidly, and with supervisors poised to take control. Around that time, Krafcik revised his prediction and stated that it would be decades before autonomous cars were widespread. This summer, about three in 10 Waymo rides were receiving negative feedback from riders. "

" The elevator is perhaps the foremost example of a relatively ancient transportation technology that could allow people to live and work in closer proximity, reducing the length of commutes and fostering commercial and social vitality. Unfortunately, in most American communities the elevator has been functionally outlawed because zoning requirements will permit no building taller than a small tree.

The bus is another overlooked piece of technology that could do far more. In most American cities, buses are hard to depend on because they run infrequently, slowly, and often on routes that are holdovers from streetcar systems abandoned decades ago. Give a bus its own lane, its own route, its own authority over signals, and it can permit car-free land use to flourish alongside.

And no technology holds as much promise as the humble bicycle—especially when we include its newfangled, electrified cousins—to solve the geometry problem that is getting people short distances around a big city. Even in the United States, where everything is fairly far apart by global standards, 48 percent of automobile trips in the biggest U.S. cities travel less than 3 miles—a distance that, with the right infrastructure, could be easily covered by a smaller vehicle. "

[PaddyShack]

My wife and I just returned home from a trip to Barcelona. Their TRAM, which has 6 different lines - 3 in the eastern part and 3 in the western part, that follow their main diagonal roads, are something I wouldn't mind seeing in OKC. Their main diagonal blvds are similar to Rt 66 and NW Exp when comparing size and distance between buildings on either side. The road is configured where the center median has a wide walkway with bike lanes outlined with trees, then the TRAM track separate the center median from the car lanes. The TRAM does operate in both directions and the stations are incorporated in this center median. The car lanes on either side vary from 2 lanes to 3 lanes throughout the city. There are pedestrian crossings at each intersection with a number of mid-block pedestrian crossings where there are shopping centers or metro stops. Then on the outer side of the blvd they have very wide sidewalks before you get to the buildings. Also, their TRAM scoots along the route very fast, sometimes as fast if not faster than the car traffic.