Historic Preservation in OKC

[Plutonic Panda]

Hopefully this doesn't come to fruition.

https://kfor.com/2019/07/02/city-cou...istoric-sites/

[Mel]

So, Money talks, History walks. Shame.

[BoulderSooner]

This is what happens when unelected boards try to end run the city council. They get smacked down. And lose power

[TheTravellers]

This is what happens when unelected boards try to end run the city council. They get smacked down. And lose power

Sounds like you're in favor of Stonecipher's crappy proposal?

[Pete]

Reminder that Stonecipher first went around Cooper in his own Ward on a First Christian measure.

And then co-authored this latest measure against the strong opposition of 3 other council members.


It's why for the life of me I can't understand why anyone considers him moderate.

Just watch the video from yesterday's meeting and listen to his comments along with Greenwell.

[TheTravellers]

Reminder that Stonecipher first went around Cooper in his own Ward on a First Christian measure.

And then co-authored this latest measure against the strong opposition of 3 other council members.


It's why for the life of me I can't understand why anyone considers him moderate.

Just watch the video from yesterday's meeting and listen to his comments along with Greenwell.

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad I moved out of Stonecipher's ward and into Cooper's, Stonecipher is a complete ass.

[David]

“It’s none of our business. It’s private property,” Ward 5 Councilman David Greenwell said, echoing the request to remove the historic preservation commission and planning commission from designating a building or district for historic preservation – if more than half of the property owners are against it.

Gah, I despise this view so much. If property ownership was the be all, end all, we wouldn't have the concept of zoning baked so hard into our land use policies. The real question is at what point the public interest outweighs the ownership interest, and being able to designate important structures as historic is already a good balance in my view.

[Pete]

^

It's a ridiculous argument.

Every piece of private property is already subject to literally hundreds of laws, ordinances, codes, etc.

[Swanky]

I truly don't understand the point of this. The HPC has the ability to initiate the process until the council makes a decision. They get the final say either way, all the HPC could do was put protections in place until decisions were made. Yes, the First Christian Church has a (hopefully) happy ending, but clearly they don't all work out that way. With Stonecipher talking over Cooper and debating with citizens it just felt like a rude, rushed attempt to force through this amendment.

[HangryHippo]

I truly don't understand the point of this.

There isn't one. Stonecipher is being vindictive and a pouty b*tch.

[Swanky]

There isn't one. Stonecipher is being vindictive and a pouty b*tch.

The alarming thing to me is that he's getting enough support! I'm not familiar with the process for this - is there any chance this gets stopped, or is it pretty much happening at this point?

[Pete]

The alarming thing to me is that he's getting enough support! I'm not familiar with the process for this - is there any chance this gets stopped, or is it pretty much happening at this point?

It looks like they have 5 votes, which is all that is needed to ultimately pass.

[Swanky]

It looks like they have 5 votes, which is all that is needed to ultimately pass.

Darn, the way that article was written it didn't quite sound like a done deal. Gave me false hope!

[HangryHippo]

It looks like they have 5 votes, which is all that is needed to ultimately pass.

Who's against? Cooper, Hamon, Holt, and Nice? Will McAtee go along with this?

[Pete]

^

There is no real point, as council always has the final say.

It's just a power play.

[Pete]

Holt will still have to vote when the matter comes back to the council for final approval.

Just don't think it will matter because the matter seems decided by the oher 8 voters.

[Rover]

Gah, I despise this view so much. If property ownership was the be all, end all, we wouldn't have the concept of zoning baked so hard into our land use policies. The real question is at what point the public interest outweighs the ownership interest, and being able to designate important structures as historic is already a good balance in my view.

It seems as if zoning laws are under attack in many places, and for many reasons. I believe Oregon passed a law essentially neutralizing single family home zoning. This is an urbanism based attack. Here is an attack on preservationists. Either way, the effort is to render ineffective current zoning and other restrictions by authorities. This is a tricky thread to start pulling.

[BoulderSooner]

It seems as if zoning laws are under attack in many places, and for many reasons. I believe Oregon passed a law essentially neutralizing single family home zoning. This is an urbanism based attack. Here is an attack on preservationists. Either way, the effort is to render ineffective current zoning and other restrictions by authorities. This is a tricky thread to start pulling.

this actually just puts power to designate a property HP historic in which the owners disagrees only in the hands those that are elected .. .

[Pete]

this actually just puts power to designate a property HP historic in which the owners disagrees only in the hands those that are elected .. .

That is already the case.

All this would do would not allow the Planning Commission or HP Commission to commence a study.

[BoulderSooner]

That is already the case.

All this would do would not allow the Planning Commission or HP Commission to commence a study.

which is pretty reasonable considering them commencing a study puts a 6 month hold on any action .... in this case the council/staff was in negotition with the property owners and the HP commission did an end run of the council ..

[Swanky]

which is pretty reasonable considering them commencing a study puts a 6 month hold on any action .... in this case the council/staff was in negotition with the property owners and the HP commission did an end run of the council ..

Without this hold, what's to stop a property owner from demolishing once they find out the study has started?

[Pete]

in this case the council/staff was in negotition with the property owners and the HP commission did an end run of the council ..

Stonecipher and others were trying to work a deal, not the council. And all the while Stonecipher is also a member of Crossings Church, which is a conflict of interest.

He also authored a resolution without even talking to Cooper, which was relatively unprecedented considering it was in his ward and he was also working with First Christian.


So, some pretty suspect behavior on the part of an elected official, as if that status somehow makes you superior.

[Plutonic Panda]

Proposal to limit commissions power

https://oklahoman.com/article/564086...-oklahoma-city

[Rover]

this actually just puts power to designate a property HP historic in which the owners disagrees only in the hands those that are elected .. .

Oh good... I was afraid it would be in the hands of knowledgeable advocates of historic preservation. Now we can rely on the unbiased, incorruptible and unconflicted elected more interested in staying in power than advocating for the right thing. Can sleep better now.

[Swanky]

Oh good... I was afraid it would be in the hands of knowledgeable advocates of historic preservation. Now we can rely on the unbiased, incorruptible and unconflicted elected more interested in staying in power than advocating for the right thing. Can sleep better now.

I don't have anything productive to add, I just wanted to applaud this response.