2019-20 OKC Thunder

[Snowman]

We are not buying out or stretching CP3. It would be a bad move for OKC and I don’t think you can stretch that much money. It would be a disaster. There are no amnesties anymore. We’ll trade him or he’ll be with OKC. It may not be until December when new contracts can be traded, which opens a lot of options.

If I recall correctly, one analyst said that CP3's contract would be the largest buyout in NBA history at something around 120 million this year, so that seems unlikely.

[Bellaboo]

If I recall correctly, one analyst said that CP3's contract would be the largest buyout in NBA history at something around 120 million this year, so that seems unlikely.

Buyouts are negotiable, it doesn't have to be the full amount of his contract.

[gopokes88]

0% chance he gets bought out. Thunder aren’t going to pay him to play somewhere else and CP3 isn’t taking the discount it would take. He’s guaranteed like $130 million and the thunder would offer like $30 million.

[Laramie]

All of this is complicated by the fact that CP3 had a huge contract offer he could have signed to stay on with the Clippers in 2017-18 after picking up his option.

Chris Paul’s financial trade-off

Nevertheless, this summer represented his chance to truly cash out and he chose to delay the truly monster checks. For reference, Paul could have received up to $201 million over five years from the Clippers and up to $149 million over four years from outside suitors had he declined his option and entered free agency.

Chris Paul Bets His NBA Career On The Rockets: https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/29/ch...ontract-career

[Teo9969]

You don't have to stretch the contract if you waive him. I agree that would be a bad choice.

Having $40M sitting on your cap but not having that player hindering the development of your future (assuming you can't trade him without sending back too many assets) is a pretty good excuse for tanking.

[gopokes88]

You don't have to stretch the contract if you waive him. I agree that would be a bad choice.

Having $40M sitting on your cap but not having that player hindering the development of your future (assuming you can't trade him without sending back too many assets) is a pretty good excuse for tanking.

That’s also against nba rules.

https://twitter.com/birdrightsnba/st...433100800?s=20

[Teo9969]

That’s also against nba rules.

https://twitter.com/birdrightsnba/st...433100800?s=20

What specifically is against the NBA rules? If you're referring to the dead cap being >15% of the future salary cap, that's only true if he's stretched. I'm saying if you can't trade him without sending back too much, waive Paul after August 31st 2020 and I don't think you'd have to stretch him at that point - I think you can elect to pay his salary as is and that 15% figure never comes into play.

I mean, I'm not a super cap expert, so I could definitely be wrong. Trading Paul for nothing would be great as well, but I just don't think anyone is going to take on that contract...especially if he doesn't start the season lighting it up.

[okatty]

I though the Trammel article on Russ today nailed it.....been quite a show for 11 years.

Also, below is a portion of an article from The Athletic today that some might find interesting:

The future is whatever OKC chooses to make of it.
Which is a good time to assess the past decade of basketball in Oklahoma City.
Was it a rousing success for a small-market team, or … wildly disappointing?
The Thunder’s first post-Seattle iteration began with back-to-back-to-back drafts as good as anyone’s ever done — Durant in ’07, Westbrook in ’08, Harden in ’09. That’s three future league MVPs drafted in three years. And, over the years, Presti brought in any number of complementary players who should have been more than good enough to support them: Serge Ibaka (2008 draft), Reggie Jackson (2011 draft), Adams (2013 draft), Jeff Green (acquired in the Ray Allen trade in 2007 from Boston, when the franchise was still in Seattle), Kendrick Perkins (acquired for Green in 2011), Victor Oladipo and Domantas Sabonis (acquired from Orlando in ’16 for Ibaka), and so on. The Thunder have made the playoffs nine out of the past 10 years and won 50 games five times during that stretch.
Yet OKC made just one NBA Finals, and that was seven years ago, well before Harden became a superstar in his own right. How awful does Thunder ownership come off today, not willing to go into the luxury tax at the time to extend Harden and thus losing all of his prime — which has come with the Rockets — as a result?
The irony is, the Thunder ultimately became one of the league’s biggest luxury taxpayers — but not for its best teams, the ones that could have been playing in June multiple times.
Presti was always fighting a rear-guard action, it seemed, continually making midseason deals for younger guys who could grow with the team’s stars, he hoped. But that never happened, and the stars had to take their share of the blame as well. A young Harden was awful in the NBA Finals against Miami. Durant surrendered to hero ball in Game 6 of the West finals in 2016, when the Thunder led Golden State 3-2 and were playing at home.
The next year, after Durant left for the Warriors, Westbrook was league MVP with his historic campaign, becoming the first player since Oscar Robertson to average a triple-double during the regular season. But he came up way short against Houston in the first round of the playoffs, hoisting and hoisting long past his expiration date, with Billy Donovan unable to get him enough rest to be productive down the stretch.
But Presti soon pulled another rabbit out of the hat, trading for George when no one thought the Thunder were even possibilities to get him. They got two solid years out of George; the second was MVP-caliber. There was, it seemed, a chance at an extended and productive future without Durant.
There always seemed to be more time.
Now, of course, Oklahoma City has all the time — and draft picks — in the world. The canvas is blank. Can they paint another masterpiece, or will their next efforts fall into the remainders bin, discounted and forgotten?

[Dob Hooligan]

This is all an academic exercise. There is zero chance the Thunder pays Chris Paul $100 million to go away. They agonized over stretching Kyle Singler and a couple million.
Also I think Chris Paul is still the players union president, and that would send a negative message for him to settle for a buy out that had him surrender anything. Especially anything over $10 million

[Dob Hooligan]

I though the Trammel article on Russ today nailed it.....been quite a show for 11 years.

Also, below is a portion of an article from The Athletic today that some might find interesting:

The future is whatever OKC chooses to make of it.
Which is a good time to assess the past decade of basketball in Oklahoma City.
Was it a rousing success for a small-market team, or … wildly disappointing?
The Thunder’s first post-Seattle iteration began with back-to-back-to-back drafts as good as anyone’s ever done — Durant in ’07, Westbrook in ’08, Harden in ’09. That’s three future league MVPs drafted in three years. And, over the years, Presti brought in any number of complementary players who should have been more than good enough to support them: Serge Ibaka (2008 draft), Reggie Jackson (2011 draft), Adams (2013 draft), Jeff Green (acquired in the Ray Allen trade in 2007 from Boston, when the franchise was still in Seattle), Kendrick Perkins (acquired for Green in 2011), Victor Oladipo and Domantas Sabonis (acquired from Orlando in ’16 for Ibaka), and so on. The Thunder have made the playoffs nine out of the past 10 years and won 50 games five times during that stretch.
Yet OKC made just one NBA Finals, and that was seven years ago, well before Harden became a superstar in his own right. How awful does Thunder ownership come off today, not willing to go into the luxury tax at the time to extend Harden and thus losing all of his prime — which has come with the Rockets — as a result?
The irony is, the Thunder ultimately became one of the league’s biggest luxury taxpayers — but not for its best teams, the ones that could have been playing in June multiple times.
Presti was always fighting a rear-guard action, it seemed, continually making midseason deals for younger guys who could grow with the team’s stars, he hoped. But that never happened, and the stars had to take their share of the blame as well. A young Harden was awful in the NBA Finals against Miami. Durant surrendered to hero ball in Game 6 of the West finals in 2016, when the Thunder led Golden State 3-2 and were playing at home.
The next year, after Durant left for the Warriors, Westbrook was league MVP with his historic campaign, becoming the first player since Oscar Robertson to average a triple-double during the regular season. But he came up way short against Houston in the first round of the playoffs, hoisting and hoisting long past his expiration date, with Billy Donovan unable to get him enough rest to be productive down the stretch.
But Presti soon pulled another rabbit out of the hat, trading for George when no one thought the Thunder were even possibilities to get him. They got two solid years out of George; the second was MVP-caliber. There was, it seemed, a chance at an extended and productive future without Durant.
There always seemed to be more time.
Now, of course, Oklahoma City has all the time — and draft picks — in the world. The canvas is blank. Can they paint another masterpiece, or will their next efforts fall into the remainders bin, discounted and forgotten?

Do you know who wrote the story? Seems pretty harsh.

[Snowman]

Do you know who wrote the story? Seems pretty harsh.

By Trammel article, they probably mean Berry Tramel, one of the longtime Daily Oklahoman sports writers.

[Quicker]

Do you know who wrote the story? Seems pretty harsh.

What part seems harsh? If anything, I feel like he left out a big part of the story by not mentioning the injury’s to our best players during the years we had the best chance at competing for a championship...

[Dob Hooligan]

By Trammel article, they probably mean Berry Tramel, one of the longtime Daily Oklahoman sports writers.

I had read the Tramel story this morning and agree it is a very good piece.

I was wondering who wrote the story from the Athletic that okatty ran the section of?

[dcsooner]

I think we are going around the edges of one of the issue with the Thunder. We have seen the dialogue on PTI wrt the Thunder. Tony K and Steven A are pretty harsh in their commentary on OKC. The Thunder squandering talent and being a NBA outpost narrative is taking hold because of the loss of so much superstar talent (now CP doesn't want to play here). The team overall has not drafted well. The arguments although hurtful, are to a great degree sound. I have said in past posts that Oklahoma in general and OKC is not viewed as a place desired by rich, young African American men (Therefore our inability to attract or retain high profile players that we don't draft). WE are not alone Portland, Sacramento, Salt Lake City and even San Antonio have small black populations but in those instances other variables (Mountains, Culture, Wackiness) or whatever helps to offset the lack of a large black population. The organization has mishandled talent beyond belief and now as never before we are considered by some as an outpost around the league. "I got no chance in OKC" . With All the positives in the 11 years of existence and all the improvements that have been and are being made to the City itself, the PLACE it appears continues to be a detriment to obtaining and retaining the talent needed to win it all. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with this line of thinking however, it bears consideration.

[PhiAlpha]

I think we are going around the edges of one of the issue with the Thunder. We have seen the dialogue on PTI wrt the Thunder. Tony K and Steven A are pretty harsh in their commentary on OKC. The Thunder squandering talent and being a NBA outpost narrative is taking hold because of the loss of so much superstar talent (now CP doesn't want to play here). The team overall has not drafted well. The arguments although hurtful, are to a great degree sound. I have said in past posts that Oklahoma in general and OKC is not viewed as a place desired by rich, young African American men (Therefore our inability to attract or retain high profile players that we don't draft). WE are not alone Portland, Sacramento, Salt Lake City and even San Antonio have small black populations but in those instances other variables (Mountains, Culture, Wackiness) or whatever helps to offset the lack of a large black population. The organization has mishandled talent beyond belief and now as never before we are considered by some as an outpost around the league. "I got no chance in OKC" . With All the positives in the 11 years of existence and all the improvements that have been and are being made to the City itself, the PLACE it appears continues to be a detriment to obtaining and retaining the talent needed to win it all. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with this line of thinking however, it bears consideration.

I disagree with the poor drafting narrative. The Thunder drafted very well when they had top 15 picks and landed some talent later in the first round which is difficult to do (Serge Ibaka, Reggie Jackson, & Andre Roberson) and it looks like Diallo is going to end up being a solid second round pick. They've had two notable busts in Cole Aldrich and Cameron Payne at 11 but that's really it over the 13 year history of Presti's tenure as GM. The Thunder have just been good for 10 years and have only had late first round draft picks which are very difficult to hit on.

As far as squandering talent, how exactly have they done that? The one key mistake they made was the Harden trade which at the time, looked like a logical move and the team didn't really miss him over the next two seasons. Had injuries to Westbrook in 2013 playoffs, Ibaka 2014 playoffs and KD in 2015 not derailed them, those teams were good enough to win the championship, especially the 2013 & 2014 teams. Knowing what we know now, the Harden trade was definitely a mistake, but had it not been for injuries over the next few seasons, we probably wouldn't still be talking about it. Also, KD left because he didn't think the team could beat Golden State after we were a quarter away from doing it and had upgraded the roster a lot to go at it again. I've mentioned it 10 times, but had KD not left, that 2016-2017 team might have been the favorite to win the championship. Al Horford also was willing to sign in free agency had KD not bolted.

Most of the team's failures amount primarily to injuries, failing to procure more outside shooting (though the team looked pretty unstoppable last year before PG got hurt), and making the mistake of believing KD when he said he wanted to stay long term. KD leaving blew up the plan.

[dcsooner]

I disagree with the poor drafting narrative. The Thunder drafted very well when they had top 15 picks and landed some talent later in the first round which is difficult to do (Serge Ibaka, Reggie Jackson, & Andre Roberson) and it looks like Diallo is going to end up being a solid second round pick. They've had two notable busts in Cole Aldrich and Cameron Payne at 11 but that's really it over the 13 year history of Presti's tenure as GM. The Thunder have just been good for 10 years and have only had late first round draft picks which are very difficult to hit on.

As far as squandering talent, how exactly have they done that? The one key mistake they made was the Harden trade which at the time, looked like a logical move and the team didn't really miss him over the next two seasons. Had injuries to Westbrook in 2013 playoffs, Ibaka 2014 playoffs and KD in 2015 not derailed them, those teams were good enough to win the championship, especially the 2013 & 2014 teams. Knowing what we know now, the Harden trade was definitely a mistake, but had it not been for injuries over the next few seasons, we probably wouldn't still be talking about it. Also, KD left because he didn't think the team could beat Golden State after we were a quarter away from doing it and had upgraded the roster a lot to go at it again. I've mentioned it 10 times, but had KD not left, that 2016-2017 team might have been the favorite to win the championship. Al Horford also was willing to sign in free agency had KD not bolted.

Most of the team's failures amount primarily to injuries, failing to procure more outside shooting (though the team looked pretty unstoppable last year before PG got hurt), and making the mistake of believing KD when he said he wanted to stay long term. KD leaving blew up the plan.

All valid points. Don’t disagree with any of your observations except the draft /trade position. MOST of our draft/trade athletes have not panned out.

[okatty]

Do you know who wrote the story? Seems pretty harsh.

David Aldridge wrote the quoted portion from the Athletic

[Dob Hooligan]

David Aldridge wrote the quoted portion from the Athletic

Thanks.

[okatty]

Another interesting comment from a different writer at the Athletic:

Best move of the summer?
The league was full of praise for Thunder GM Sam Presti’s handling of a complicated situation. Paul George is an excellent player, but he needs two shoulder surgeries and did not want to be in Oklahoma City. Presti got high marks for turning PG into Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Danilo Gallinari and a historically large amount of draft picks from the Clippers.

“I think Oklahoma City and what they got, as good as he is, they got a ton,” said one Eastern Conference GM of the George trade. “If you’re going to make the decision that’s where you’re going, they took full advantage.”

If you subscribe to The Athletic there is also a brand new article titled "Thunder roundtable: OKC beat writers past and present on Russell Westbrook, the future and the end of an era" which is really good. Dawson, Slater, Katz and Mayberry really dive in.

[PhiAlpha]

All valid points. Don’t disagree with any of your observations except the draft /trade position. MOST of our draft/trade athletes have not panned out.

List the teams who have hit on more than 2 or 3 bottom 15 1st round draft picks in the last decade. Outside of The picks that turned into KD, Russ, Harden, Adams, Jeff Green and the two busts I mentioned, that is all that we've had over the last decade

Trades are hit or miss too. Which trades would you say haven't worked out? I would argue that we are better than 50/50 on trades.

[Richard at Remax]

It may or may not have already been mentioned, but I think some of this was already planned with PG. I bet when he signed his contract here, there was a mutual understanding that if the clippers/lakers got good again, to try trade him and get the best deal. Just makes too much sense for me. Sucks that it was 1 year after he signed the deal but it is what it is.

[dankrutka]

All valid points. Don’t disagree with any of your observations except the draft /trade position. MOST of our draft/trade athletes have not panned out.

Most draft picks don’t work out for all teams. In the last decade, OKC is far and away the best drafting team in the NBA and it’s not even close. As far as the narrative players don’t want to play in OKC, you’re ignoring both that (a) organizational culture matters (OKC has a good one) and (b) having smart ownership matters (OKC has that in Presti). Remember that Dallas has many desireable factors and has struck out on most free agents for the last 15 years. OKC, for example, is a far more desirable location than Charlotte for players despite geographic, demographic, or cultural shortcomings. OKC will be okay.

[Jake]

Also, the New York Knicks have failed to attract quality FAs for over a decade despite being the largest city in the nation while also being one of the largest cultural, financial, and media capitals of the world.

The Thunder are fine.

[dcsooner]

Most draft picks don’t work out for all teams. In the last decade, OKC is far and away the best drafting team in the NBA and it’s not even close. As far as the narrative players don’t want to play in OKC, you’re ignoring both that (a) organizational culture matters (OKC has a good one) and (b) having smart ownership matters (OKC has that in Presti). Remember that Dallas has many desireable factors and has struck out on most free agents for the last 15 years. OKC, for example, is a far more desirable location than Charlotte for players despite geographic, demographic, or cultural shortcomings. OKC will be okay.

Dunkrutka et al, your perspectives are encouraging. I loathe the naysayers who still question the viability of the market, a little nervous, not wanting us to fall to their nonsense, fail to support our team and potentially lose what has unquestionably been one of the most invaluable additions to the fabric of our ever-changing capital city. I can also acknowledge that this first 11 years has been a learning curve for ownership and GM. I fully expect that going forward our organization having been through these scenarios is much better equipped to navigate the nuances of NBA free agency.

[checkthat]

Most draft picks don’t work out for all teams. In the last decade, OKC is far and away the best drafting team in the NBA and it’s not even close. As far as the narrative players don’t want to play in OKC, you’re ignoring both that (a) organizational culture matters (OKC has a good one) and (b) having smart ownership matters (OKC has that in Presti). Remember that Dallas has many desireable factors and has struck out on most free agents for the last 15 years. OKC, for example, is a far more desirable location than Charlotte for players despite geographic, demographic, or cultural shortcomings. OKC will be okay.

While I agree that OKC has been the best drafting team, it has to be close with GS drafting Curry, Thompson, and Green in a four year span. It is interesting to note that OKC could have had Curry, picked four spots after James Harden, and Green, seven spots after Perry Jones III. Hopefully Presti's eye is still sharp and he scoops up the best talent of the next generation.