Any new economic developments?

[jonny d]

I check Texas newspapers frequently, and almost daily, there are new companies bring 100's and 1,000's of jobs into Texas cities. When will we ever hear about stuff like that in Oklahoma? Maybe not that large (multiple hundreds seems doable), but you get the point. Does this state try to get those large tech and finance jobs, or solely manufacturing or distribution jobs?

[mugofbeer]

When Oklahoma has a quality education system from K through University - especially in the tech/computer sciences. When Oklahoma has no income tax. When Oklahoma has an international airport. When Oklahoma's legislature stops trying to force people to live a conservative lifestyle and pass legislation that is simply laughable. When Oklahoma becomes a place people want to move. Probably a few more things people can add.

[Pete]

Texas has 5X the population of Oklahoma; it is 2nd only to California. Dallas and Houston are now the 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, respectively.

The Boeing coup was a huge one for the OKC area, with thousands of jobs, even more related jobs, and all of them high-paying.

But it's true, until we properly fund education in this state, we will never attract many high-paying jobs from elsewhere.

[G.Walker]

Aside from that, the Oklahoma City area has seen a flux of aerospace companies expanding here & bringing hundreds of jobs in the last few years. Valkyrie Systems Aerospace & Kratos comes to mind as of late both set to add over 300 jobs. These companies are high paying & will grow over time. Aerospace companies are our best bet right now for high paying jobs in the metro, yea they build large tract industrial spaces & not shiny new towers, but they are good jobs.

[Ross MacLochness]

Speaking of ED developments... It has begun: https://freepressokc.com/hamon-chall...DyWC_wNy6fR-28

[Pete]

Speaking of ED developments... It has begun: https://freepressokc.com/hamon-chall...DyWC_wNy6fR-28

That's very interesting. Hamon, Cooper and Nice all voted against this relatively small incentive. In the past, only Shadid would have spoken or voted against something like this.

Battle lines are being drawn. And if they can get one more progressive member on the council in the next round of elections, almost everything could change, especially the flood of tax incentives.

[jonny d]

That's very interesting. Hamon, Cooper and Nice all voted against this relatively small incentive. In the past, only Shadid would have spoken or voted against something like this.

Battle lines are being drawn. And if they can get one more progressive member on the council in the next round of elections, almost everything could change, especially the flood of tax incentives.

Which would almost cripple this city's ability to lure good jobs here. It would have to be at the state level.

[Ross MacLochness]

Yeah.. I'm very anti-incentives idealistically, but in reality I think we should be careful before we all but abandon them. I hope that their progressivism doesn't end up being a barrier to actual progress. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

[jonny d]

Yeah.. I'm very anti-incentives idealistically, but in reality I think we should be careful before we all but abandon them. I hope that their progressivism doesn't end up being a barrier to actual progress. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

Most incentives, I am with you. Until the human capital here in OKC increases, we need these incentives to offer to companies. We need to hold them accountable, yes. But if they live up to their end of the bargain, it helps OKC in the long run.

[gopokes88]

I would like hear more than “we could use that for the homeless”, it’s not like other cities and states have snapped their fingers allocated money and fixed it. California spends enormous amounts of money and has gotten no where.

If they wanna start a fight against incentives fine, but they need to argue more than 6 inches deep.

The incentives brought the jobs here. That’s a fact. And you can’t say, they would have come here anyway. That’s a hypothetical, you can’t prove that as fact

[Pete]

The incentives brought the jobs here. That’s a fact. And you can’t say, they would have come here anyway. That’s a hypothetical, you can’t prove that as fact

You have this completely backward IMO.

Tons of companies relocate here or expand without incentives.

When you are spending billions of taxpayer money, the burden of proof falls on you and there is no way they can prove someone wouldn't have done X without the incentives.

[gopokes88]

You have this completely backward IMO.

Tons of companies relocate here or expand without incentives.

When you are spending billions of taxpayer money, the burden of proof falls on you and there is no way they can prove someone wouldn't have done X without the incentives.

They would have gone to one of the cities we were competing against that offered incentives.

But that amazon building in NYC is really freaking sweeeeeeet, oh wait. No it isn’t.

There’s a mountain of examples of cities not playing ball, and companies/orgs/ a certain NBA team/ two pro teams in Oakland saying bye.

Burden is on the anti incentive side. Not the pro side.

[Pete]

They would have gone to one of the cities we were competing against that offered incentives.

You have no way of knowing that. Can you name one example of that happening here?

[gopokes88]

You have no way of knowing that. Can you name one example of that happening here?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-cit...ves-1489675343

https://www.wsj.com/articles/meet-th...es-11558152005

It’s pretty common knowledge how the incentive games work.

Okc has likely lost out on some things because they didn’t offer enough, imagine if we just quit playing altogether.

[Pete]

And BTW, the company at the center of this particular debate is already operating in OKC.

The incentives are for them adding jobs.

And in that same program, there are tons of companies like Chesapeake who were also given incentives and have since let go thousands of employees and that money was not returned.

[mugofbeer]

You have this completely backward IMO.

Tons of companies relocate here or expand without incentives.

When you are spending billions of taxpayer money, the burden of proof falls on you and there is no way they can prove someone wouldn't have done X without the incentives.

If that were the case, Pete, then why does virtually every other sizeable city and state offer economic incentives to draw business? Texas and Texas cities offer incentives like M & M's and do so successfully - read: wins business from Oklahoma. Its undeniable. To do so is like being a climate denier or a flat earther. In a perfect world , there would be none but the world is far from perfect.

[Pete]

If that were the case, Pete, then why does virtually every other sizeable city and state offer economic incentives to draw business? Texas and Texas cities offer incentives like M & M's and do so successfully - read: wins business from Oklahoma. Its undeniable. To do so is like being a climate denier or a flat earther. In a perfect world , there would be none but the world is far from perfect.

Nobody is saying that we shouldn't offer them.

[mugofbeer]

Nobody is saying that we shouldn't offer them.

You have made statements several times on here very critical of companies relocating without incentives. You have also made it clear about your disapproval of incentives to get certain retailers to locate stores here - COSTCO, at all. We can all wish we lived in Shangri La where incentives didn't exist but they are a fact of life. Obviously, there should always be a thorough investigation before they are given but because of OKCs retail reputation for cheapness and spread-out demographics, many employers will not invest in OKC.
it doesn't work 100% of the time but like Whole Foods (don't recall if incentives or another arrangement from McClendon) and (I'm betting COSTCO), some are very successful and will pay back incentives times over.
Being happy to have more and more Councilmen and Women who wish to stop incentives is being happy to kill off new business growth. Scrutiny yes, eliminating them is just myopic.

[Bunty]

I would like hear more than “we could use that for the homeless”, it’s not like other cities and states have snapped their fingers allocated money and fixed it. California spends enormous amounts of money and has gotten no where.

If they wanna start a fight against incentives fine, but they need to argue more than 6 inches deep.

The incentives brought the jobs here. That’s a fact. And you can’t say, they would have come here anyway. That’s a hypothetical, you can’t prove that as fact

Abolishing sales tax on food and eliminate the state corporate income tax might help more than company incentives. Individual income tax, too. All tax reform changes would have broader appeal by making the state more attractive to both workers and companies from outside the state. Everybody would benefit. But coming to terms as to how to tax elsewhere to make up for lost revenue would probably be next to impossible to agree on at the state capitol. Probably a good amount of money could be found by eliminating most incentives from the state.

[jonny d]

Abolishing sales tax on food and eliminate the state corporate income tax might help more than company incentives. Individual income tax, too. All tax reform changes would have broader appeal by making the state more attractive to both workers and companies from outside the state. Everybody would benefit. But coming to terms as to how to tax elsewhere to make up for lost revenue would probably be next to impossible to agree on at the state capitol. Probably a good amount of money could be found by eliminating most incentives from the state.

I have often thought about this. Even just getting rid of the income tax (leaving the sale tax intact) would be huge! But the increase would have to probably come from property taxes. Texans pay a premium for property taxes, I believe.

[Bellaboo]

I have often thought about this. Even just getting rid of the income tax (leaving the sale tax intact) would be huge! But the increase would have to probably come from property taxes. Texans pay a premium for property taxes, I believe.

Fact ! My sister in Ft Worth area has a house about 1,000 sq ft smaller than mine and pays almost double what I pay in property tax, and I pay $3,400.00 per year.

[progressiveboy]

Living in DFW property taxes are becoming an issue, however, it appears something is being done about it! Texas is also funding more $$$ into their education system and giving teachers pay raises. I believe part of this is due to all these white collar jobs coming and relocating to Texas requires educated human capital! Even though property taxes are a thorn in Texas side, the quality of life is still great and people and companies are moving in droves to the Lone Star State, especially to cities like Austin and DFW. Lots of high disposable incomes in DFW and is becoming a more educated city with an increase in people with College degrees!



https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/n...rty-taxes.html

[gopokes88]

Oh and $250,000 is still $250,000. Companies that have a tendency to view it as a “drop in the bucket” have a tendency to end up broke. The smart companies always watch the pennies, it’s probably why they asked for it in the first place. They want those drops.

An unbelievably naive, flippant, and arrogant statement.

[Pete]

Nobody is advocating that we quit altogether.

But many of these incentives should absolutely be challenged or even voted down.


And I can tell you that 100% of these incentive packages have been approved once they reach city council. That is not responsible oversight.

[gopokes88]

1. Vote too many down and that affects perception. Okc is not friendly and difficult to work with. Perception is often reality in life .

2. Booz Allen Hamilton will just say ok cool principled stand okc, well just grow somewhere else. Plano, Colorado Springs, etc they’ll play ball. We’ll expand that office instead.

Short of a national ban on this sort of nonsense, okc doesn’t have much of a choice.