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  1. #176

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    I understand that GoPokes but my point is Oklahoma needs whatever it can do to lure in businesses.

    Austin has a reputation of being akin to Portland or Denver as an up and coming city that is fun and has qualities in ways cities like OKC do not have.

    Even if Oklahoma had a city like Austin it would really attract more companies to the state. Texas is so massive I think it’s negative qualities are overshadowed by the positive ones. Oklahoma seems to be the opposite.

    Oklahoma is still perceived and rightfully so as one of the bigoted states. You have groups of states like Colorado, Utah, Texas, North Carolina, Oregon, etc. that make people excited and have real buzz surrounding them and then you have states like Alabama, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc. that aren’t bad but are not exciting either.

    Thankfully OKC seems to be rapidly changing and IMO is Oklahoma’s only hope. We’ll see.

  2. #177

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Even passing through a city like Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Denver etc. are much more exciting than OKC. Things seem faster paced, more out of norm and bold things being built, infrastructure being expanded all over, endless construction, much more bright at night with much more activity later into the night.

    Oklahoma doesn’t have that and it doesn’t have the major business start ups or relocations cities in NC, TX, AZ, etc. have.

  3. #178

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    I understand that GoPokes but my point is Oklahoma needs whatever it can do to lure in businesses.

    Austin has a reputation of being akin to Portland or Denver as an up and coming city that is fun and has qualities in ways cities like OKC do not have.

    Even if Oklahoma had a city like Austin it would really attract more companies to the state. Texas is so massive I think it’s negative qualities are overshadowed by the positive ones. Oklahoma seems to be the opposite.

    Oklahoma is still perceived and rightfully so as one of the bigoted states. You have groups of states like Colorado, Utah, Texas, North Carolina, Oregon, etc. that make people excited and have real buzz surrounding them and then you have states like Alabama, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc. that aren’t bad but are not exciting either.

    Thankfully OKC seems to be rapidly changing and IMO is Oklahoma’s only hope. We’ll see.
    Wait, Utah isn't bigoted? You lost me at that point.

  4. #179

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny d View Post
    Wait, Utah isn't bigoted? You lost me at that point.
    Then I don’t think you got my point. At this point I give up because by saying Utah is bigoted you might as well lump Texas in with that. What I am saying is Oklahoma in comparison to Utah doesn’t have a city growing like SLC, it doesn’t have some of the many magnificent developments SLC has, there is a huge progressive and liberal community in Utah around the many world renowned landmarks like Moab, Bryce Canyon, etc. that attract top conservationist from all over the world, doesn’t have a suburb like Park City, doesn’t have an airport even close to SLC, i can go on and on. All of those things(and many more)about Utah are far from being associated with anything backwards and fosters a very healthy progressive community.

    Oklahoma should tread carefully on its perception. If you want to knit pick my post then keep your head in the sand. Pretend Oklahoma is a state that is viewed in the same as Utah. Before I’m accused of making a strawman there my point is Oklahoma is associated with states perceived as bigoted. Notice I am not directly calling Oklahoma a bigoted state there. I don’t see Utah lumped I’m with states like Alabama that are perceived as a bigoted.

  5. #180

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Then I don’t think you got my point. At this point I give up because by saying Utah is bigoted you might as well lump Texas in with that. What I am saying is Oklahoma in comparison to Utah doesn’t have a city growing like SLC, it doesn’t have some of the many magnificent developments SLC has, there is a huge progressive and liberal community in Utah around the many world renowned landmarks like Moab, Bryce Canyon, etc. that attract top conservationist from all over the world, doesn’t have a suburb like Park City, doesn’t have an airport even close to SLC, i can go on and on. All of those things(and many more)about Utah are far from being associated with anything backwards and fosters a very healthy progressive community.

    Oklahoma should tread carefully on its perception. If you want to knit pick my post then keep your head in the sand. Pretend Oklahoma is a state that is viewed in the same as Utah. Before I’m accused of making a strawman there my point is Oklahoma is associated with states perceived as bigoted. Notice I am not directly calling Oklahoma a bigoted state there. I don’t see Utah lumped I’m with states like Alabama that are perceived as a bigoted.
    Then what can Oklahoma do? We have no natural landmarks, and won't anytime soon (given they take millions of years to form). I think putting more money in higher ed us a good first step. But I am not sure what else we can do here. MAPS passing will also help, in my opinion.

  6. #181

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny d View Post
    Then what can Oklahoma do? We have no natural landmarks, and won't anytime soon (given they take millions of years to form). I think putting more money in higher ed us a good first step. But I am not sure what else we can do here. MAPS passing will also help, in my opinion.
    It is actually very simple. The state could set itself up for immediate success tomorrow if our state gov would get out of its own way.

    1. Expand Medicaid
    2. Increase education funding at all levels. (Per pupil spending k-12, teacher pay raises, and higher ed all need adequately funded yesterday)
    3. Legalize recreational weed

    That is all Oklahoma has to do to become an instant draw for economic development across the entire state. It really is that simple.

  7. #182

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny d View Post
    Then what can Oklahoma do? We have no natural landmarks, and won't anytime soon (given they take millions of years to form). I think putting more money in higher ed us a good first step. But I am not sure what else we can do here. MAPS passing will also help, in my opinion.
    I’m not sure to be honest I’m really high right now so I might not be articulating my point clearly.

    I love Oklahoma and I’m not saying what I said as knock. It’s just personal observations through various experiences or news articles I see how the state is portrayed. Oklahoma doesn’t need the natural beauty Utah has to be lumped in with it as a progressive state. I’m just pointing out some of its features which help be one of those states.

  8. #183

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    It is actually very simple. The state could set itself up for immediate success tomorrow if our state gov would get out of its own way.

    1. Expand Medicaid
    2. Increase education funding at all levels. (Per pupil spending k-12, teacher pay raises, and higher ed all need adequately funded yesterday)
    3. Legalize recreational weed

    That is all Oklahoma has to do to become an instant draw for economic development across the entire state. It really is that simple.
    +1

    Might I also add(ironically as it may be) that another thing Oklahoma needs to do is increase its focus on mass transit. It is embarrassing the two biggest cities don’t even have a passenger rail connection of any kind.

  9. #184

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    +1

    Might I also add(ironically as it may be) that another thing Oklahoma needs to do is increase its focus on mass transit. It is embarrassing the two biggest cities don’t even have a passenger rail connection of any kind.
    i think the commutes need to be sufficiently miserable for folks to start asking the government for mass transit. Seems like we’re still a few years away from that point.

  10. #185

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck5815 View Post
    i think the commutes need to be sufficiently miserable for folks to start asking the government for mass transit. Seems like we’re still a few years away from that point.
    Agreed but we should be at the very minimum providing a basic alternative to driving or flying. I’m not talking 220 MPH HSR. Even a basic rail system with average speeds of 110 MPH would suffice.

    I know many like my grandparents who are getting old that would utilize a national passenger rail network that was at minimum reliable, newer trains, and reasonable speeds of 100 Mph average as they don’t want the hassle of flying or driving. I suspect there is a huge hidden market for passenger rail in the US.

    We need things like:

    A standard for train stations- 1) plentiful parking 2) enhanced local transit network and first last mile solutions had 3) basic 24 hr amenities like food, drink, hotel, etc. in or adjacent to stations

    Reasonable frequencies:

    Multiple trains leaving per day to give flexibility to those who have different schedules. That is a huge advantage the car has being on demand 24/7 and while it isn’t reasonable to expect all transit like that we should have trains than for example like the heartland flyer only having one a day each way.

    Newer train stock: we need a new fleet of trains across the US. We need on train amenities like a full bar and perhaps other gimmicks like theater rooms, scenic viewing areas, and dinner trains.

    Dedicated ROW. There should be a double tracked passenger rail line along every single interstate in the country. The ROW should shift when entering cities to better serve and foster walkable environments.

    This should all be done with a massive freeway widening project to add whether amount of lanes are necessary to ensure a minimum of 45 MPH at all times on every single freeway in the country no matter what.

  11. #186

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    https://oklahoman.com/article/564965...ted-in-october

    “The index, a joint project of the bank, institute and Petroleum Alliance of Oklahoma, indicates the state’s oil and gas industry underwent a “significant contraction” in October.“

    “The pace of job losses has been slower than previous contractions, reflecting the reality that employment in the industry never fully recovered to previous peaks. Without that excess employment, we have not yet experienced the same numbers of headline-making layoffs that characterized previous contractions.”

  12. #187
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    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Oklahoma and other sluggish states might try learning what some of the other states are doing to prosper. This is where there are actually more counties gaining population than losing, such as Tennessee. Florida shares the same characteristic, but its advantages are impossible to duplicate from having beaches, warm winters and its attraction to retirees. But Florida not having an income tax isn't impossible to duplicate. Interesting that Florida's most conservative part isn't do so well. Among other states doing well overall are Georgia and North Carolina.

  13. #188

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    The West and Texas, out migration from California. Border states, immigration. Florida, Georgia and NC, out-migration fron Ny, CT and MA as well as retirees. Texas - a damn good business environment so corporate relo's.

  14. #189
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    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    +1

    Might I also add(ironically as it may be) that another thing Oklahoma needs to do is increase its focus on mass transit. It is embarrassing the two biggest cities don’t even have a passenger rail connection of any kind.
    If taking the train is faster than the turnpike, then the train would surely be well accepted and become popular, rather than shunned. If not, I don't see passenger rail worth pursuing between the 2 metros.

  15. #190
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    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Instead of incentives to lure out of state concerns, how about using that money to cultivate and grow existing small businesses. Many on the conservative side advocate for the small business man when it comes to voting down minimum wage increases, paid leave, etc. Use that money to incentive small business to expand. Those owners are already committed to the local economy.
    Meridian Technology in Stillwater offers education, while providing space to help small entrepreneurs expand beyond the garage. Surely similar state techs in OKC area offer something similar. If not, maybe they should.

    https://www.meridiantech.edu/center-...ship-overview/

  16. Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Like 20 years ago? Cite your source. Execs don’t make decisions based on a very specific social issue. They make decisions on talent available, airport, schools, livability
    I think Steve used to tease us with his "make KC and Dallas jealous" argument or that there was a major corporation HQ in SF that was seriously looking to relocate to downtown OKC (reputably part of the OGE complex). I believe it was Schwab or someone similar but didn't due to OKC's perceived LGBTQ stance.
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  17. #192

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    It is actually very simple. The state could set itself up for immediate success tomorrow if our state gov would get out of its own way.

    1. Expand Medicaid
    2. Increase education funding at all levels. (Per pupil spending k-12, teacher pay raises, and higher ed all need adequately funded yesterday)
    3. Legalize recreational weed

    That is all Oklahoma has to do to become an instant draw for economic development across the entire state. It really is that simple.
    You really think whether weed is legalized means anything to much of anyone but the small percentage of people who are weed connoisseurs? All Colorado got from it was tax revenue and an influx of drug users and abusers. Go downtown to city park or along the Platte River or Cherry Creek and they are covered with homeless - in a place that should have NO homeless since there are something like 500,000 job opennings in the area. Legal pot has resulted in decreased alcahol use but also a flood of people whose only care in life is to get high.

  18. #193

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by HOT ROD View Post
    I think Steve used to tease us with his "make KC and Dallas jealous" argument or that there was a major corporation HQ in SF that was seriously looking to relocate to downtown OKC (reputably part of the OGE complex). I believe it was Schwab or someone similar but didn't due to OKC's perceived LGBTQ stance.
    Yeah that wasn’t it at all.

    It was a huge urban fabric centric development at The producer co-op with a canal extension.

  19. #194

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    You really think whether weed is legalized means anything to much of anyone but the small percentage of people who are weed connoisseurs? All Colorado got from it was tax revenue and an influx of drug users and abusers. Go downtown to city park or along the Platte River or Cherry Creek and they are covered with homeless - in a place that should have NO homeless since there are something like 500,000 job opennings in the area. Legal pot has resulted in decreased alcahol use but also a flood of people whose only care in life is to get high.
    In my opinion, this appears to be a conflation of a few issues. Median home price in Denver has doubled in last 10 years. Quote from a study on this matter:

    The DataFace, a San Francisco-based data agency, combed through the pages of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development’s (HUD) latest Annual Homeless Assessment Report (AHAR) and found that eight of the 10 states with the highest homelessness rates also have the nation’s highest median home prices.
    What is key in understanding this is the effect that recreational cannabis had on Denver's real estate market. That's something we would need to research. However, a large population influx to OK & OKC would likely not have such a dramatic effect on home prices due to the abundance of open land in OK to develop on. In cities with geographic restrictions, land use is significantly more limited which strains new additions to the home market.

    While I don't have much evidence to back this up - anecdotally, I suspect that CO being a first mover in to recreational marijuana had an out-sized effect on people relocating to the state to become pioneers of the legal industry. If OK were to legalize recreational, we would be the 12th state to do so, preceded by Alaska, California, Colorado, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont and Washington. Additionally, homelessness is a problem nationwide, regardless of cannabis laws. I've got a sneaky suspicion that may have something to do with inflation-adjusted wages being flat for decades while asset prices have continue to climb among a historic low in workforce participation rates.

    With the legal cannabis industry now almost a decade old, legalization of recreational would likely result in many new businesses with established ops in other states coming to OK. However, this would to the detriment of our home-grown medical cannabis businesses that are all very green (double pun!).

    I'm one of cannabis' biggest fans, advocates, and users. I don't believe that legal cannabis in OK would generate enough tax revenue to fully diversify our economy and fix state budget issues. HOWEVER, the impact on PERCEPTION of the state would dramatically change. The perception change would be the biggest value-add here IMHO.

  20. #195

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    You really think whether weed is legalized means anything to much of anyone but the small percentage of people who are weed connoisseurs? All Colorado got from it was tax revenue and an influx of drug users and abusers. Go downtown to city park or along the Platte River or Cherry Creek and they are covered with homeless - in a place that should have NO homeless since there are something like 500,000 job opennings in the area. Legal pot has resulted in decreased alcahol use but also a flood of people whose only care in life is to get high.
    We should legalize weed recreationally to get the tax revenue to help fund items 1 and 2 on the list. I’m mainly looking at the 7.5 million people who live just south of our border in a state that currently has no medical or recreational marijuana.

    Items 1 and 2 on the list are absolutely vital for any type of positive future of rural oklahoma. Item 3 is an easy way to help fund it.

    All three could be done tomorrow if the state govt had any sense at all.

  21. #196
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    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    We should legalize weed recreationally to get the tax revenue to help fund items 1 and 2 on the list. I’m mainly looking at the 7.5 million people who live just south of our border in a state that currently has no medical or recreational marijuana.

    Items 1 and 2 on the list are absolutely vital for any type of positive future of rural oklahoma. Item 3 is an easy way to help fund it.

    All three could be done tomorrow if the state govt had any sense at all.
    I easily agree. New sources to raise tax revenue need to be found, since raising existing taxes is like pulling hen's teeth.

    We've been fortunate to have citizens willing to work at the grass roots level to go around the stubborn state legislature to enact needed changes for Oklahoma. I won't be surprised if a petition to raise the state minimum wage comes up.

    After the experience of its first failure, if only Green the Vote had the good sense to do its 2018 rec petition for a statute change, we would be voting on legalizing rec marijuana in 2020. It will be interesting to see if a group has a petition planned in time for the Nov. 2020 general election.

  22. #197
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    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    We should legalize weed recreationally to get the tax revenue to help fund items 1 and 2 on the list. I’m mainly looking at the 7.5 million people who live just south of our border in a state that currently has no medical or recreational marijuana.

    Items 1 and 2 on the list are absolutely vital for any type of positive future of rural oklahoma. Item 3 is an easy way to help fund it.

    All three could be done tomorrow if the state govt had any sense at all.
    I easily agree. New sources to raise tax revenue need to be found, since raising existing taxes is like pulling hen's teeth.

    After its first failure, if only Green the Vote had the good sense to do its 2018 rec petition for a statute change, we would be voting on legalizing rec marijuana in 2020. It will be interesting to see if a group wants to do a petition in time for the Nov. 2020 general election.

  23. #198
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    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Actually, a new recreational petition was submitted to the Oklahoma Secretary of State on Dec. 12. It will be SQ 806 for an addition to the state constitution. One originator of SQ 788, Dean Franklin Grove not liking it much. To him, it seems to have been written secretly, unlike SQ788 in which public meetings were held in four cities to finalizing wording and put up on youtube for transparency. This is the how SQ806 reads: https://www.sos.ok.gov/documents/questions/806.pdf

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