Oklahoma teacher pay ranking jump

[ChrisHayes]

Good news on the teacher pay front. https://kfor.com/2019/04/29/oklahoma...xGHFX8YqDxl5E0

[dankrutka]

This pay raise is a good start, but I feel like so many years of bad press require more efforts to change perceptions that will impact the teacher work force. Oklahoma education has a serious perception problems across the country and region. To use a business term, it's a failed brand because of decades of legislative and public neglect.

[hoya]

This pay raise is a good start, but I feel like so many years of bad press require more efforts to change perceptions that will impact the teacher work force. Oklahoma education has a serious perception problems across the country and region. To use a business term, it's a failed brand because of decades of legislative and public neglect.

Oklahoma probably needs about 10 years of not showing up on any lists of "bottom 10 education funding in the nation". Most people in other states aren't really paying attention and aren't going to remember for very long. Stop making the news for the wrong reasons and the perception of our state will improve a lot.

If we can keep teacher salaries in line with Texas and Colorado for the next decade or so, and if OU can start going back up in the school rankings (crack the top 100, get close to AAU status), we'll be in a much better position.

[mugofbeer]

Very good news. OK certainly doesn't need to be at the top of the list but it should be middle. Now to get upper ed funding back where it was a few years ago.

[brian72]

If I had the money I would send my Kids to a Private School for sure. Too many cracks in these public schools. I'm glad I was able to go to a small oklahoma school and had teachers that cared, (not saying they don't anymore) but I guess its hard with all the Cell phone and Social media these days.

[dankrutka]

If I had the money I would send my Kids to a Private School for sure. Too many cracks in these public schools. I'm glad I was able to go to a small oklahoma school and had teachers that cared, (not saying they don't anymore) but I guess its hard with all the Cell phone and Social media these days.

I taught in OKC in a public school that I would put up against any private school in Oklahoma. More than anything, these broad statements are silly. There are terrible private schools and good ones. For some students, this can be the same school! When I was growing up, half the drugs in the city ran through the private schools. 😂 The same spectrum goes for public schools. Not sure why you think social media is a public schools issue. Anyway, f me, I’ll always be committed to public schools because they’re a commitment to our communities. The biggest problem today is that many adults are not committed to their communities, just their kids.

[Jeepnokc]

I taught in OKC in a public school that I would put up against any private school in Oklahoma. More than anything, these broad statements are silly. There are terrible private schools and good ones. For some students, this can be the same school! When I was growing up, half the drugs in the city ran through the private schools. 😂 The same spectrum goes for public schools. Not sure why you think social media is a public schools issue. Anyway, f me, I’ll always be committed to public schools because they’re a commitment to our communities. The biggest problem today is that many adults are not committed to their communities, just their kids.

It isn't just the education but the entire high school experience. WestMoore is a good school with good teachers but at 2300 students, the kids don't have the same experience as Mount St Mary with 600 kids. Only so many kids can be on the football team or be a cheerleader.

I would say that my commitment to the community is just as strong as I am still paying taxes to support public schools (which I am OK with as strong schools are better for everyone) while also supporting other educational alternative that works better for our family. It isn't a choice between commitment to our kids over the community as being committed to our kids makes for stronger future leaders in our communities. Being committed to the community also means being committed to our kids also. These go hand in hand and are not opposed to each other.

[brian72]

I taught in OKC in a public school that I would put up against any private school in Oklahoma. More than anything, these broad statements are silly. There are terrible private schools and good ones. For some students, this can be the same school! When I was growing up, half the drugs in the city ran through the private schools. �� The same spectrum goes for public schools. Not sure why you think social media is a public schools issue. Anyway, f me, I’ll always be committed to public schools because they’re a commitment to our communities. The biggest problem today is that many adults are not committed to their communities, just their kids.

The problem today is that many people don't care about the community. They only want what is in it for themselves. Look what's happened to Putnam West high school. That place 40 years ago was one the top schools in the metro, now it has Free/reduced Lunch program for a majority of students. Another example is Northwest Classen (elizabeth warren alma mater) Look who came out of that school, and look now. Starts with Dad and Mom then your communities will become better. Until then just keep throwing Money at it, that always seems to work.

[jerrywall]

Look what's happened to Putnam West high school. That place 40 years ago was one the top schools in the metro, now it has Free/reduced Lunch program for a majority of students.

I... er... don't see the connection.

[hoya]

Public schools have the problem that they have to take everybody. Private schools can pick and choose, and generally the only kids who go there are the ones who have parents who care enough to pay money for it. A kid's chances of success skyrocket if mom and dad care enough to make sure he does his homework every night.

Your kid has a big time learning disability, or major behavioral problems? Public school has to deal with him. From the teachers I've spoken with, In public school 10% of the students generate 90% of the problems. A private school just doesn't have to accept that 10%. So a public school is almost always going to be less efficient than a private school. But really as far as quality of education, you get out of it what you put into it.

[mugofbeer]

The problem today is that many people don't care about the community. They only want what is in it for themselves. Look what's happened to Putnam West high school. That place 40 years ago was one the top schools in the metro, now it has Free/reduced Lunch program for a majority of students. Another example is Northwest Classen (elizabeth warren alma mater) Look who came out of that school, and look now. Starts with Dad and Mom then your communities will become better. Until then just keep throwing Money at it, that always seems to work.

Well, isn't it true that once your own kids leave public school, you shouldn't have to pay taxes to support those schools anymore? To me, that is the mentality of far too many out there. If I don't use it, I should not have to help support it.

[brian72]

What about home schooling? Doesn't the public school system hate for people to do this because the Money they lose?

[dankrutka]

What about home schooling? Doesn't the public school system hate for people to do this because the Money they lose?

First, I'm not sure a system has feelings... but other than that, huh?

[mugofbeer]

What about home schooling? Doesn't the public school system hate for people to do this because the Money they lose?

Anything that takes the per student cash away from public schools is disliked by the public school system.

[jn1780]

The problem today is that many people don't care about the community. They only want what is in it for themselves. Look what's happened to Putnam West high school. That place 40 years ago was one the top schools in the metro, now it has Free/reduced Lunch program for a majority of students. Another example is Northwest Classen (elizabeth warren alma mater) Look who came out of that school, and look now. Starts with Dad and Mom then your communities will become better. Until then just keep throwing Money at it, that always seems to work.

The communities changed. A lot of those students who graduated 40 to 30 years ago moved to Edmond and their kids are probably moved or planning to move to Deer Creek taking their money and building higher value homes somewhere else. I went to Putnam City Schools about 15 years ago and it can be argued that they were higher tiered back then.

[dankrutka]

It isn't just the education but the entire high school experience. WestMoore is a good school with good teachers but at 2300 students, the kids don't have the same experience as Mount St Mary with 600 kids. Only so many kids can be on the football team or be a cheerleader.

I would say that my commitment to the community is just as strong as I am still paying taxes to support public schools (which I am OK with as strong schools are better for everyone) while also supporting other educational alternative that works better for our family. It isn't a choice between commitment to our kids over the community as being committed to our kids makes for stronger future leaders in our communities. Being committed to the community also means being committed to our kids also. These go hand in hand and are not opposed to each other.

My point wasn't to bag on anyone for making decisions for their kids. It's admittedly complicated. If apologize if my point came across that way.

I will point out that at even a lot of big schools like Westmoore, while maybe your children are less likely to the star on the football team or cheerleading squad, there are far more options for small group participation that are likely unavailable at smaller schools Mount St. Mary's. I mean, Westmoore has lots more teachers than Mount St. Mary's so that offers a lot of opportunities for students. When I taught at Westmoore, we had so many ways to be involved. Clubs included: anime, Gay-Straight alliance, environmental, anti-genocide coalition, Asian-American Society, robotics and on and on. In short, your kids would likely have had more opportunities for participation at Westmoore. If football and cheerleading prominence was the main goal then, yes, Mount St. Mary's may have been better. But size offers opportunities too. We had an incredible faculty when I was there. We all dedicated a ton of our time before/during lunch/after school to students and their interests.

[Jeepnokc]

My point wasn't to bag on anyone for making decisions for their kids. It's admittedly complicated. If apologize if my point came across that way.

I will point out that at even a lot of big schools like Westmoore, while maybe your children are less likely to the star on the football team or cheerleading squad, there are far more options for small group participation that are likely unavailable at smaller schools Mount St. Mary's. I mean, Westmoore has lots more teachers than Mount St. Mary's so that offers a lot of opportunities for students. When I taught at Westmoore, we had so many ways to be involved. Clubs included: anime, Gay-Straight alliance, environmental, anti-genocide coalition, Asian-American Society, robotics and on and on. In short, your kids would likely have had more opportunities for participation at Westmoore. If football and cheerleading prominence was the main goal then, yes, Mount St. Mary's may have been better. But size offers opportunities too. We had an incredible faculty when I was there. We all dedicated a ton of our time before/during lunch/after school to students and their interests.

It is complicated and you didn't come across bad. That is a valid point for the smaller activities as they have more teachers. What is funny is our son didn't want to go to MSM because he liked the cross country coach at Westmoore. (Brink X country worked out with the high school kids.) There is much more reliance on parents for small groups like robotics. My daughter decided she wanted to pole vault this year and had to go to Bishop McGuiness to train and workout as MSM didn't have it. If there is something you want to do at MSM, they generally will find a way.

There are pros and cons to both. The key is to figure out what works best for each kid. We were happy with Westmoore other than the sheer size of the student population at the high school level.

[Richard at Remax]

My brother in law is the co owner of Epic Charter Schools. They are 100% loathed by the public school system.

[Jeepnokc]

My brother in law is the co owner of Epic Charter Schools. They are 100% loathed by the public school system.

Ben or Dave?

[dankrutka]

My brother in law is the co owner of Epic Charter Schools. They are 100% loathed by the public school system.

Why do you think that is?

[Midtowner]

My brother in law is the co owner of Epic Charter Schools. They are 100% loathed by the public school system.

Deserved. They're pocketing 10% of the proceeds as "management fees" and graduating only about 1/3 of their high schoolers on time. Their high school is in the bottom 5% of public high schools in the state. They're trash.

[dankrutka]

And, yes, I do believe all for-profit school systems should be closed and honestly outlawed. The corruption in for-profit charters is astounding, which is no surprise. Think about the conflict of interests in making educational decisions when you have to consider turning a profit. I'm not saying public schools are perfect (the waste in corporate ed tech contracts as an example), but it's to such a smaller scale than the corruption we've seen in for-profit charters.

The charter model was originally conceived of as laboratories for innovative or community-serving school designs. However, now they've morphed into "no excuse" totalitarian (see KIPP), for-profit, political extremist, or just naive-I-bet-I-can-make-a-great-school-even-though-I-know-nothing-about-education charter models. Research suggests that charters are not more successful than public schools and often come with far larger failures. But people keep trying them because many public schools are set up to fail through underfunding, segregation, and accountability-reform that decimates working class schools in particular. And, a lot of people don't realize that many of the worst public school policies are pushed through by charter school extremists who are trying to dismantle public schools. [rant over]

[pw405]

...

The charter model was originally conceived of as laboratories for innovative or community-serving school designs. However, now they've morphed into "no excuse" totalitarian (see KIPP), for-profit, political extremist, or just naive-I-bet-I-can-make-a-great-school-even-though-I-know-nothing-about-education charter models. Research suggests that charters are not more successful than public schools and often come with far larger failures. But people keep trying them because many public schools are set up to fail through underfunding, segregation, and accountability-reform that decimates working class schools in particular. And, a lot of people don't realize that many of the worst public school policies are pushed through by charter school extremists who are trying to dismantle public schools. [rant over]

[mugofbeer]

And, yes, I do believe all for-profit school systems should be closed and honestly outlawed. The corruption in for-profit charters is astounding, which is no surprise. Think about the conflict of interests in making educational decisions when you have to consider turning a profit. I'm not saying public schools are perfect (the waste in corporate ed tech contracts as an example), but it's to such a smaller scale than the corruption we've seen in for-profit charters.

The charter model was originally conceived of as laboratories for innovative or community-serving school designs. However, now they've morphed into "no excuse" totalitarian (see KIPP), for-profit, political extremist, or just naive-I-bet-I-can-make-a-great-school-even-though-I-know-nothing-about-education charter models. Research suggests that charters are not more successful than public schools and often come with far larger failures. But people keep trying them because many public schools are set up to fail through underfunding, segregation, and accountability-reform that decimates working class schools in particular. And, a lot of people don't realize that many of the worst public school policies are pushed through by charter school extremists who are trying to dismantle public schools. [rant over]

I'm not asking to be argumentative (other than you seem to paint a pretty broad brush) but to see the stats and who is behind them. I know OKC and Denver are distantly separated but there are a number of charter schools around here that are outstanding. Several specialize in STEM and aim to keep girls interested in the subjects, while at the same time allowing boys to escape athletic pressures. One is a music specialty school and one, where a colleague has his 3 mixed-race children pushes business and multi-lingual education.
I wonder if this might be a case of the source of the stats making the outcome what the source wants them to be?

[Richard at Remax]

Deserved. They're pocketing 10% of the proceeds as "management fees" and graduating only about 1/3 of their high schoolers on time. Their high school is in the bottom 5% of public high schools in the state. They're trash.

Man, I'd love to hear what you think about the actual public school system? I'm actually pretty neutral and can see both sides. But to call them trash? Cmon now. I'm sure you are OK with the way too many administrators and top officials in the public schools making six figures while their kids have 10-15% proficiency in English and math?